Minecraft - All of my wat

[StarLiner]

Alright, so I was having massive, massive framerate issues.

A bit of searching later, I find that for whatever reason, Minecraft was using my Laptop's integrated graphics card instead of the stand alone GPU. I remedy this. My framerate skyrockets.

This implies that the bottleneck to Minecraft is the graphics card, at least on my computer.

Now, I'm not a programmer, could somebody explain how this:

Is more graphically intensive than this:

Or am I missing something?


(As a side question, if anybody could tell me how to lock my games framerate so my gpu doesn't burn itself up, that would be much appreciated)

 

[kieran_]

because one was made and run in java the other not i could recommend to allocate java more ram but yea thats why ......(also nice house )

 

[Omicron]

It's because Java.

Also, in the video options menu you can set your performance mode to "power saver", that will limit FPS to 40 and thereby keep your video card from getting a heat stroke.

 

[SerTrollface]

Put all the graphics options, to the minimum, and put the Perf. mode to max fps.

 

[AliasXNeo]

It's Java and there low level base has already been critiqued by quite a few professionals as being incredibly inefficient. You have to remember the origins of MC

 

[Hexxa]

You answered you're own question a bit, it was using you're integrated GPU. A lot of modern laptops will take a shot at deciding if an application is either graphically intensive or not, and depending on your GPU (Nivida or Radeon) it may even pop up and ask. You remedied that part. As a lot of people mention Minecraft runs on java, a terribly inefficient language for a game.


Heres another fun issue I found out with my wifes laptop after a ton of research: many of those switching GPU laptops still can't properly run OpenGL rendered games at full speed. While I'm not sure if you're still having frame issues at all (Awesome if you're not), in some cases even if you tell it to use your standalone it won't fully utilize it without BIOs updates or custom BIOS or other madness (Acer I'm looking at you). Though these issues are more prominent on Radeons.

And turning Vsync on will also limit your framerate, either in MC or your video cards control panel.

 

[Phycoz]

It wasn't coded to be optimized, when it was made Notch didn't expect it would go very far so he just started coding. Also, a lot more has to be rendered in Minecraft. In just about every game, only what you can see is what exists. With Minecraft, it has an entire underground to render as well. Instead of just one way textures, there are millions of blocks. I don't understand why everyone just blames Java for the lag... also the amount of mods being run. In normal Minecraft I get +100 FPS, but in FTB I get ~50 FPS with tweaked settings.

To lock your FPS set Max FPS to something like Balanced or Power Saver. Try getting Optifine so you can set the exact frame rate you want it to be locked at, as well as 100 other options.

 

[Strubinator]

It wasn't coded to be optimized, when it was made Notch didn't expect it would go very far so he just started coding. Also, a lot more has to be rendered in Minecraft. In just about every game, only what you can see is what exists. With Minecraft, it has an entire underground to render as well. Instead of just one way textures, there are millions of blocks. I don't understand why everyone just blames Java for the lag... also the amount of mods being run. In normal Minecraft I get +100 FPS, but in FTB I get ~50 FPS with tweaked settings.

To lock your FPS set Max FPS to something like Balanced or Power Saver. Try getting Optifine so you can set the exact frame rate you want it to be locked at, as well as 100 other options.

Minecraft doesnt render every single block, if it did, you would need a supercomputer to render that . It only renders blocks that are open to transparent blocks, mainly the surface and caves.

 

[Narcisism]

Heres another fun issue I found out with my wifes laptop after a ton of research: many of those switching GPU laptops still can't properly run OpenGL rendered games at full speed. While I'm not sure if you're still having frame issues at all (Awesome if you're not), in some cases even if you tell it to use your standalone it won't fully utilize it without BIOs updates or custom BIOS or other madness (Acer I'm looking at you). Though these issues are more prominent on Radeons.

..... this could explain a lot of the problems I've been having, since I'm currently using an Acer Aspire 5532 with a Radeon HD3200 in it >.> I don't suppose you know what this "other madness" is that I'd need to do to make it be less terrible? >.>

 

[SeniLiX]

In general, a laptop is not fit for gaming. the reason being several limitations when designing a laptop, like low power consumption and physical size.
A PC will always perform better even if it just uses brute force.

Next time you are looking to upgrade. Spend your money on a proper gaming rig and buy a smaller laptop for every day internet browsing.

 

[Narcisism]

In general, a laptop is not fit for gaming. the reason being several limitations when designing a laptop, like low power consumption and physical size.
A PC will always perform better even if it just uses brute force.

Next time you are looking to upgrade. Spend your money on a proper gaming rig and buy a smaller laptop for every day internet browsing.

See, this is the exact response someone with a crappy computer does not want. Because if we're asking for ways to improve performance on our piece of crap, it means we are poor and have no possibility of getting something better any time soon. Not everyone has money to throw at advanced technology. Some of us are college students who have to pay for loans, or just come from lower class families. Or both, in my case. So keep that in mind when people start asking about how to improve their current PC. Trust me, no one understand the crappiness of a cheap computer like a person who can't afford anything better.

EDIT: Basically, my point is "If I had the ability to upgrade, don't you think I would have done that already?" I'm trying to make do with what I have, right now, and people telling me to upgrade just makes me want to mug them for the money to do it. Though, if you wanted to donate to that fund, I would not object >.>

 

[Chagrilled]

you misunderstand. he wasnt saying upgrade now, just when you do upgrade, get a pc and a laptop with the money instead of just a laptop.

on topic, i had built a new pc, but not installed my graphics card in (so running off integrated). tf2 ran at max settings no problems whatsoever, minecraft was a lot slower, about half the fps.

 

[Hexxa]

Edit: I PMed you Narc, and deleted the info I posted. Don't wana hijack this guys thread for this

 

[StarLiner]

Thank you to everybody who suggested how to lock my FPS, that helps a ton!

And, just for the record, my Laptop is no slouch. I can play Starcraft 2, Battlefield 3, and most other current games at a very nice framerate even with many of the bells and whistles turned on.

The fact that it had trouble with (modded) Minecraft astounded me for awhile.

 

[Whovian]

It's not Java. Since Java's run on a virtual machine, a ideally compiled program in Java would run slower than an ideally compiled program in C++, and I think more effort's been put into C++ compilers than Java ones, so C++ programs will tend to run faster (assuming you're a C++ coder who knows what they're doing against a Java coder who knows what they're doing. Porting MC to C++ hasn't ended very well, MC was written in and for Java, so of course trying to use Java problem-solving techniques in C++ is going to result in trouble!)

However, just Java inefficiency can't compensate for all of MC's lag, just a small bit of it. The source is that while Notch is a great concept-inventor (better than Jeb in my opinion,) he's ... sort of an idiot when it comes to coding. (Okay, not an idiot, but he's definitely not a world-class coder.) And so he didn't write MC's graphics rendering code too well, so MC's going to be really graphics-intensive, oddly enough.

 

[SeniLiX]

See, this is the exact response someone with a crappy computer does not want. Because if we're asking for ways to improve performance on our piece of crap, it means we are poor and have no possibility of getting something better any time soon. Not everyone has money to throw at advanced technology. Some of us are college students who have to pay for loans, or just come from lower class families. Or both, in my case. So keep that in mind when people start asking about how to improve their current PC. Trust me, no one understand the crappiness of a cheap computer like a person who can't afford anything better.

EDIT: Basically, my point is "If I had the ability to upgrade, don't you think I would have done that already?" I'm trying to make do with what I have, right now, and people telling me to upgrade just makes me want to mug them for the money to do it. Though, if you wanted to donate to that fund, I would not object >.>

you misunderstand. he wasnt saying upgrade now, just when you do upgrade, get a pc and a laptop with the money instead of just a laptop.

This is exactly what I meant.
It does not matter how big or low your budget is.

Point is to not spend all your money and buy the fastest laptop you can get and then try to upgrade it.

Even if you can only afford a mediocre desktop PC to go along with a small laptop, you still got a system which you can upgrade later, once you can afford to do so.

A laptop however have to be replaced to make any noteworthy upgrade.

 

[Poppycocks]

Minecraft doesnt render every single block, if it did, you would need a supercomputer to render that . It only renders blocks that are open to transparent blocks, mainly the surface and caves.

Which as it turns out, is the reason why the game lags so bad on mindcrack. All of the xychlorite and aluminium ore blocks are non-opaque, and are thus rendered. It's the easy method of making a block with a custom render. Which is necessary for those blocks as they're both shiny and animated. Which in turn doesn't help the framerate much either.

Lots of bad decisions taken there imo.

All in all, slowly but surely, I'm thinking about ditching xy completely.

 

[Lakart]

Which as it turns out, is the reason why the game lags so bad on mindcrack. All of the xychlorite and aluminium ore blocks are non-opaque, and are thus rendered. It's the easy method of making a block with a custom render. Which is necessary for those blocks as they're both shiny and animated. Which in turn doesn't help the framerate much either.

Lots of bad decisions taken there imo.

All in all, slowly but surely, I'm thinking about ditching xy completely.

My server ditched XY after the first two days of filling up chests with it's useless items, and twilight forest as well since no matter if the configuration of the server specs changes or not, that mod seems to randomly choose between lagging like crazy or working fine and it's just too much of a crapshoot.

 

[Evil Hamster]

It's not Java. Since Java's run on a virtual machine, a ideally compiled program in Java would run slower than an ideally compiled program in C++, and I think more effort's been put into C++ compilers than Java ones, so C++ programs will tend to run faster (assuming you're a C++ coder who knows what they're doing against a Java coder who knows what they're doing. Porting MC to C++ hasn't ended very well, MC was written in and for Java, so of course trying to use Java problem-solving techniques in C++ is going to result in trouble!)

However, just Java inefficiency can't compensate for all of MC's lag, just a small bit of it. The source is that while Notch is a great concept-inventor (better than Jeb in my opinion,) he's ... sort of an idiot when it comes to coding. (Okay, not an idiot, but he's definitely not a world-class coder.) And so he didn't write MC's graphics rendering code too well, so MC's going to be really graphics-intensive, oddly enough.

It is java. Java is designed so programmers can write one code and have it run on any machine/operating system. Because of that, it's not optimized for any system. C++ will work faster because it is specifically designed for the operating system and cpu it is being run on, but the code would require massive changes for the different systems out there. Mojang would have to hire a "windows" team and an "apple" team and a "linux" team etc. Keeping any updates to the game synchronized across the platforms would be a nightmare.

 

[warfighter67]

It is java. Java is designed so programmers can write one code and have it run on any machine/operating system. Because of that, it's not optimized for any system. C++ will work faster because it is specifically designed for the operating system and cpu it is being run on, but the code would require massive changes for the different systems out there. Mojang would have to hire a "windows" team and an "apple" team and a "linux" team etc. Keeping any updates to the game synchronized across the platforms would be a nightmare.

The difference between coding in Java and C++, assuming both were optimized, wouldn't be as significant as you make it out to be.