Beat me to it, I was just about to point out you can easily do fuel free water mill farms with 20 mills, a timer, a deployer, a filter, a retreiver, about 30 buckets, and a thermopile. 40 eu/t with 100% uptime anywhere, can be built underground. It's much much much cheaper than 40 solar panels with 50% uptime. The only reason to not do it is that lots of them will lag everything up.
Mass Fabricator: In game or out?
- Thread starter Luigilow
- Start date
Beat me to it, I was just about to point out you can easily do fuel free water mill farms with 20 mills, a timer, a deployer, a filter, a retreiver, about 30 buckets, and a thermopile. 40 eu/t with 100% uptime anywhere, can be built underground. It's much much much cheaper than 40 solar panels with 50% uptime. The only reason to not do it is that lots of them will lag everything up.
Simple solution is to decrease the power generation of any block (in any mod) that generates endless power. It just results in the same problem that EE2 had with it's energy collectors.
Also a better way of handling Solar Panels is to treat them as a multi-block. All touching blocks combine their generation into one packet and sent through the cable touching any part of the array.
So a single solar panel produces 5, an array of 10 produces 50 (which has a side effect of needing a more powerful cable) instead of 10 packets of 5.
That would reduce the number of packets being generated, but keep the massive size that a solar power farm should be. Plus then no need of these more powerful solar panels that make other power generation obsolete.
Also a better way of handling Solar Panels is to treat them as a multi-block. All touching blocks combine their generation into one packet and sent through the cable touching any part of the array.
So a single solar panel produces 5, an array of 10 produces 50 (which has a side effect of needing a more powerful cable) instead of 10 packets of 5.
That would reduce the number of packets being generated, but keep the massive size that a solar power farm should be. Plus then no need of these more powerful solar panels that make other power generation obsolete.
Windmills are just as unrealistic really.I think it would be much better if you could only have like one per chunk, and they would be pretty expensive. Wind power IRL is MUCH more expensive per watt to set up than a regular coal burning plant. The 'only' benefit is that it's clean. It's not cheap.
Same with watermills. Just putting them in some water should not do anything. Water itself doesn't contain energy. Gravity gives it energy but for that to be of use you need to have it flowing down. With the way water works in MC having watermills is simply not possible. If they would be in they should be based on pumped water and a pressure system, so their main benefit would be storage.
Basically I'm just rambling a bit; it's not something that's easy to solve. Heck, I don't think it even should be solved. Making FTB more realistic might very well make it less fun. It's probably not even possible to solve: many of the things the mods have are not even remotely 'possible'. But making matter creation 'harder' gives no benefit since it's something that creates a self-replication loop. Especially on servers where you can leave it running even when not online you'd end up with people creating more and more matter fabs. So either you accept this as 'end-game', or you completely do away with either free energy or matter fabrication.
For me FTB is about making nice factories. I don't care about creating thousands of diamonds much
From the main page of IC2:
It's your world. You think solars are unbalanced? Don't use them. You hate Greg Tech? Disable. You play Minecraft 10 hours a day? GT will give you harder goals to reach and never spoils the fun. FTB in single player is wonderful: it's 100% configurable, you can enable/disable basically every single block in any mod. From my point of view, there's no problem even in SMP: everything is configurable even there! I've been playing FTB since it came out, mostly on temporary world waiting for the Ultimate Pack, I came up with a ton of neat contraptions, some of them are fully automated some are not, but if I felt something was OP I simply ignored it. For how I play, even the MFFS energy to EU conversion system is a bit unbalanced, in SSP MFFS is not that useful as it is in SMP so I simply ignore forcicium.
Implementing diminishing returns is not easy. But I think, possible. one option is to use player's time as limiting factor. Other way is this - http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1608883-balancing-automation-with-diminishing-returns/
Personally I really like the idea of making solar into a multiblock structure as it would effectively handle both to the issues with solar. As for wind and water how about taking a page from rail craft and redpower requiring you to make rotors to keep them running. That way the more you use of these energy systems the more costly the maintenance will become.
I think we've stumbled on a fantastic solution here, it's too bad greg isn't on the ftb forums haha
I don't have an IC2 forum account, but anyone feel free to pass the ideas on. We've seen that Multiblock is possible. Seeing how other mods are developing, IC2 is feeling a bit "old fashioned" and "left behind".
As danidas mentions, any sort of maintenance on a block will hamper the "free resources" you can get. My personal believe is that each tech block should have a component that wears out, and needs to be replaced. This block can have different variations to control how effective the block is.
For example, using IC2 only as an example, and everyones favorite the macerator. If you had to make a "grinder head" (sorry, don't know the term!) out of flint, that would only give a 25% bonus and last a short time, while a diamond version would give you the 100% bonus, and last longer.
While it adds a whole level of micromanagement, which some people will find tedious, it will also give an extra element to design balance. A config option could also be added to allow for maintenance or not.
As danidas mentions, any sort of maintenance on a block will hamper the "free resources" you can get. My personal believe is that each tech block should have a component that wears out, and needs to be replaced. This block can have different variations to control how effective the block is.
For example, using IC2 only as an example, and everyones favorite the macerator. If you had to make a "grinder head" (sorry, don't know the term!) out of flint, that would only give a 25% bonus and last a short time, while a diamond version would give you the 100% bonus, and last longer.
While it adds a whole level of micromanagement, which some people will find tedious, it will also give an extra element to design balance. A config option could also be added to allow for maintenance or not.
Another alternative to the HV solar problems is to put a durability loss into the solar panel. Whether rechargeable or self-destructing is irrelevant as either approach could subsequently utilize renewable (or non) materials to bring a solar array back online. This could also be worked in with a "maintenance cycle" of some kind, such as needing to periodically clean the panel surface of dirt.
The multi-block method only works if you keep the blocks touching however and you could easily take extra space in exchange for the same results. Multi-PART requirements in a HV solar multi-block approach would break that option.
Either way, durability of some kind would easily (and quite reasonably) limit the free power generation. Even RL solar has maintenance and a lifespan, ultimately meeting age death.
The multi-block method only works if you keep the blocks touching however and you could easily take extra space in exchange for the same results. Multi-PART requirements in a HV solar multi-block approach would break that option.
Either way, durability of some kind would easily (and quite reasonably) limit the free power generation. Even RL solar has maintenance and a lifespan, ultimately meeting age death.
I honestly think IC2 can't be fixed by any bodging.. It needs an overhaul
Even the core fundamentals like the eu "packets" allowing you to send 100,000,000's of EU through a single HV cable with some work and invincibility super-armor
I actually think the problem here lies with HV solars.. Waaaaaaaay to much power in a single block (Expensive but easily made and set-up)
Even the core fundamentals like the eu "packets" allowing you to send 100,000,000's of EU through a single HV cable with some work and invincibility super-armor
I actually think the problem here lies with HV solars.. Waaaaaaaay to much power in a single block (Expensive but easily made and set-up)
Ok everyone i love this is getting a lot of attention but there is almost two pages here and nothing helps my problem! I want to turn ON the mass fabricator but i CANNOT find the Gregtech files under the config. Im at the mine craft folder, got to config and there is no gregtech folders.
Open the folder you have your FTB packs set for. From there:
-Open the pack you're using
-open into the minecraft folder
-open configs
-config file should be visible and not in a folder
If you cannot figure it out from there, I have a bridge I could sell ya with a lot of beachside property in arizona perfect for a house.
Click on "edit mod pack" button in launcher and disable Gregtech. Or look for "GregTech.cfg" in FTB directory (not in .minecraft directory)
Okay:
Step 1) Open the FTB Launcher
Step 2) Click the "settings" Tab
Step 3) Find the install folder and browse to it using your preferred file manager (Open the folder)
Step 4) Open FTBBETAA->minecraft->config
Step 5) Find the file named "GregTech.cfg" If for whatever reason this file is hidden try to open it manually
Type said filename into a Notepad-esk file editor. Example: Open C:\Users\Azurren\FTB\FTBBETAA\minecraft\config)
Step 6) Change this line:
To:
Sorry, Luigilow, for not answering your question the first time I had post in this thread. I had assumed others' replies had been sufficient for that.
IC2 actually feels a little too straight forward and simple for the bulk of it. No real thought goes into it (from the player) except for reactor designs. Even Forestry farms seem to spark more creativity than IC2's wiring and categorical generator spam. Spam Solar Panels on the roof, Wind Mills in the air, Geothermals underground, and screw Water Mills because they aren't worth the space they take. String everything together with Glass Fibre Cables since it can take nearly any ("vanilla" IC2) voltage and you rarely ever have to buffer it to avoid power loss. The only thing left for creative solutions is arranging the machines to get them to cooperate with Tubes and Pipes.
IC2 has really tedious crafting, with over six different components that you use over, and over, and over again, often all in one machine. Thermal Expansion uses a lot of repeating parts, but for the most part these components are used just enough that you quickly know which ones to use on reflex almost depending on what the machine's supposed to do. (Liquids? Oh, I need Tin and a Servo.) I don't think i'm the only one who's grown tired of crafting electronic circuits.
The tiering is screwy too. (Not saying GregTech is correct here.) The Electric Tools don't last as long as Diamond (or probably even Iron) but Lappacks trivialize that completely, especially since the Quantum Armor set is so powerful that the loss of chest armor is not a big deal at all, and their power is that of Diamond Tools + enchantments. The only time to not use the Drill and Chainsaw are when you want Fortune III and do not want Silk Touch on leaves. I suppose when you want to gather Cobwebs too now, as Shears and Swords can now be given Silk Touch. Maybe make these tools use an Energy Crystal and an Advanced Circuit to craft, but the way they are now, I make one Iron Pick and that's it except for the electric tools and an eventual enchanted Diamond Pickaxe that never runs out due to how little I use it. And then there's the Jetpacks. The fuel Jetpack doesn't have hover mode, doesn't last nearly as long, and if I remember right is harder to recharge in the field. It's a liability. The only advantage it has is that it can fly higher than the Electric Jetpack. The Electric Jetpack's "fuel" is entirely renewable and can even come from free energy sources, so why is it better in all but one way? Where's the trade-off? Why does the fuel Jetpack even exist?
IC2 is a linear ascension towards trivialization. Most other mods are horizontal expansions that pull you farther from tedium. It's a slog towards UU matter, invincibility, and little else than turning you into a self-employed sweatshop worker, with the only expansion lengthening the slog, hammering it further into the shape of a line, and offering little else outside of that line. The only other mod I see right now that rewards progress by removing so much gameplay from the game is the Buildcraft Quarry. And Turtles if you copy/paste programs, but that's another matter.
So... yeah. I too think IC could use another overhaul.
I'm not sure what bodging means, but I think I agree with that statement. It's showing its age. More and more mods have moved away from time = free stuff and have focused more on encouraging creative and modular problem solving in workshop design and management. If EE can make the change, so can IC2. Now that EE3 is avoiding what made EE2 absurd, IC2 is the closest thing to EE2... and it's frighteningly close to it. Free energy generators + MassFabricator isn't much better than EE2's "power flowers." Quantum Armor was always better than the Redmatter armor set anyways. That fact really should be unsettling.
IC2 actually feels a little too straight forward and simple for the bulk of it. No real thought goes into it (from the player) except for reactor designs. Even Forestry farms seem to spark more creativity than IC2's wiring and categorical generator spam. Spam Solar Panels on the roof, Wind Mills in the air, Geothermals underground, and screw Water Mills because they aren't worth the space they take. String everything together with Glass Fibre Cables since it can take nearly any ("vanilla" IC2) voltage and you rarely ever have to buffer it to avoid power loss. The only thing left for creative solutions is arranging the machines to get them to cooperate with Tubes and Pipes.
IC2 has really tedious crafting, with over six different components that you use over, and over, and over again, often all in one machine. Thermal Expansion uses a lot of repeating parts, but for the most part these components are used just enough that you quickly know which ones to use on reflex almost depending on what the machine's supposed to do. (Liquids? Oh, I need Tin and a Servo.) I don't think i'm the only one who's grown tired of crafting electronic circuits.
The tiering is screwy too. (Not saying GregTech is correct here.) The Electric Tools don't last as long as Diamond (or probably even Iron) but Lappacks trivialize that completely, especially since the Quantum Armor set is so powerful that the loss of chest armor is not a big deal at all, and their power is that of Diamond Tools + enchantments. The only time to not use the Drill and Chainsaw are when you want Fortune III and do not want Silk Touch on leaves. I suppose when you want to gather Cobwebs too now, as Shears and Swords can now be given Silk Touch. Maybe make these tools use an Energy Crystal and an Advanced Circuit to craft, but the way they are now, I make one Iron Pick and that's it except for the electric tools and an eventual enchanted Diamond Pickaxe that never runs out due to how little I use it. And then there's the Jetpacks. The fuel Jetpack doesn't have hover mode, doesn't last nearly as long, and if I remember right is harder to recharge in the field. It's a liability. The only advantage it has is that it can fly higher than the Electric Jetpack. The Electric Jetpack's "fuel" is entirely renewable and can even come from free energy sources, so why is it better in all but one way? Where's the trade-off? Why does the fuel Jetpack even exist?
IC2 is a linear ascension towards trivialization. Most other mods are horizontal expansions that pull you farther from tedium. It's a slog towards UU matter, invincibility, and little else than turning you into a self-employed sweatshop worker, with the only expansion lengthening the slog, hammering it further into the shape of a line, and offering little else outside of that line. The only other mod I see right now that rewards progress by removing so much gameplay from the game is the Buildcraft Quarry. And Turtles if you copy/paste programs, but that's another matter.
So... yeah. I too think IC could use another overhaul.
What I mean by "bodging" is simple changes (Such as doubling EU costs), increasing recipe costs or adding-in durability may fix that one problem but could also introduce a whole host of new problems and issues as-well as potentially punishing newer players who don't know all the tricks or THE BEST METHOD of generating eu
I think an overhaul is a good idea, IC3, focusing on more realistic electricity (IC2 was simple and fun but with all the reactor changes recently the devs seem to want it to be more realistic..)
Luckily for us there are a whole bunch of new mods which incorporate the core fundamentals of what we mostly use IC2 for (Better ore processing, toys and power-management). When Redpower gets added to the pack I may just remove IC2 entirely..
I think an overhaul is a good idea, IC3, focusing on more realistic electricity (IC2 was simple and fun but with all the reactor changes recently the devs seem to want it to be more realistic..)
Luckily for us there are a whole bunch of new mods which incorporate the core fundamentals of what we mostly use IC2 for (Better ore processing, toys and power-management). When Redpower gets added to the pack I may just remove IC2 entirely..
My bad for assuming you knew the difference between FTB files and the standard minecraft install location. I'll try and be more specific in the future.