Lots of questions surrounding ram usage for server, and clients

[Brian Cherrick]

I currently run a 1 GB server for my nephew and I that has the DW20 modpack as well Binnies Mods, Advanced Solar Panels, Soul Shards 2, Agriculture, and Mariculture.

The server runs pretty well, as does both computers. But this is where the problems are. My computer is light years better than his running an AMD eight core processor with 16GB of ram to his outdated Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 4 GB of ram.

We've found a great deal of mods that we want to work with for the server (a few add dimensions, but most add food). We were wondering what would the ram on the server need to be at, and what would he need personally to add it. We are wondering this, cause the client will load up after we resolve all the item conflicts, but when it comes to generating a new single player world is where we are coming into issues.

We aren't quite sure if updating his ram to maybe 8 GB (the max his mobo will support) will fix the problem, or if he may need a new rig all together, or if he would only be able to play multiplayer since the server is generating the world, thus eliminating that issue.

There is about 15 mods we're intersted in adding as long as we can clear these minor hurdles.

Thanks for the help.

Brian

 

[Oddity]

Ftb servers are recommended to have 3-4gb of ram. As for his personal Computer, I never go above 3.5gb ram usage. So an upgrade to 8gb should be sufficient.

 

[PsionicArchon]

Modded Minecraft eats processors for breakfast. I give my client a healthy two gigs which is about all it needs. I've seen processor usage spike as high as thirty percent and, that's on a heavily overclocked i7. That dual core is going to bottleneck any memory upgrades you make so if you can find a Core 2 Quad on e-bay for cheap grab it. Most of the Core 2 Duo chips shipped using the same socket as the old Core 2 Quads.

 

[Brian Cherrick]

Ftb servers are recommended to have 3-4gb of ram. As for his personal Computer, I never go above 3.5gb ram usage. So an upgrade to 8gb should be sufficient.

That doesn't exactly answer my question though, and it leaves the rest unanswered.

Modded Minecraft eats processors for breakfast. I give my client a healthy two gigs which is about all it needs. I've seen processor usage spike as high as thirty percent and, that's on a heavily overclocked i7. That dual core is going to bottleneck any memory upgrades you make so if you can find a Core 2 Quad on e-bay for cheap grab it. Most of the Core 2 Duo chips shipped using the same socket as the old Core 2 Quads.

So in theory the game should only take 2 GB regardless of how many mods the client, or server takes? and is more processor intensive than ram intensive?

That's the part I am worried about. His game launches fine to the title screen, but it won't even generate a world, which I don't know why since it launches to the title screen w/o a hitch. Only thing I can ascertain is memory/processor. I did look into the benchmark ratings of his processor vs the top core 2 quad processor, and the difference seems pretty negligible, only a few points.

How would the AMD Eight-Core stack up as well? Cause I was honestly thinking of going back to Intel for this since I feel it's better for gaming.

Thoughts?

 

[PsionicArchon]

I'm not sure what benchmarks are showing a negligible difference between a processor with two less cores, perhaps you are looking at single threaded application benchmarks?

I have a couple of friends who switched away from their dual cores and saw pretty remarkable performance improvements. One of them wasn't able to generate their own world but, they were able to join a server.

As for Intel vs AMD, if you have the cash Intel chips outperform AMD chips across the board when it comes to gaming. Does it warrant the significantly higher price tag, that's debatable.

For anyone wondering, I run around 178 mods (basically Monster) with two gigs of ram dedicated to the client. I've yet to run into any issues hosting a world. My processor gets thrashed though, at 4ghz I'll see usage upwards of 30% when hosting my own world.

 

[Harvest88]

Modded Minecraft eats processors for breakfast.

Tell me about it.. Not only the host I am at have great support that the guy setup the whole thing for me (Yup even the annoying IDs conflicts) but also they just got new servers with super powerful Intel ones. With 40 mods (78 displayed on the title screen) CPU problems should not happens for a max of 10 players. As for RAM I set my Perm gen to 256MB and my RAM at least to 1.5GB.

 

[ProfessorMudkip]

an AMD eight core processor with 16GB of ram to his outdated Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 4 GB of ram.

To my knowledge Minecraft does not support multithreading, so it is only using one core. Thus, his outdated duo core processor functions like an outdated single core processor. I presume it has a low clock speed, so it's probably not able keep up. You should check the task manager while he runs Minecraft to determine which resource he needs to improve.

 

[Brian Cherrick]

I'm not sure what benchmarks are showing a negligible difference between a processor with two less cores, perhaps you are looking at single threaded application benchmarks?

I have a couple of friends who switched away from their dual cores and saw pretty remarkable performance improvements. One of them wasn't able to generate their own world but, they were able to join a server.

As for Intel vs AMD, if you have the cash Intel chips outperform AMD chips across the board when it comes to gaming. Does it warrant the significantly higher price tag, that's debatable.

For anyone wondering, I run around 178 mods (basically Monster) with two gigs of ram dedicated to the client. I've yet to run into any issues hosting a world. My processor gets thrashed though, at 4ghz I'll see usage upwards of 30% when hosting my own world.

So he wouldn't be able to generate, much less host his own world, but would be able to join a server?

To my knowledge Minecraft does not support multithreading, so it is only using one core. Thus, his outdated duo core processor functions like an outdated single core processor. I presume it has a low clock speed, so it's probably not able keep up. You should check the task manager while he runs Minecraft to determine which resource he needs to improve.

His is an old Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 3.0 Ghz, and mine is an AMD FX 8150 @ 3.6 Ghz. So if MC only uses one core, is my processor only marginally better than his? I have 16 GB of Ram in my rig, but don't have any issues whatsoever. How does my rig outperform his then by so much? His is really my main concern. That and determining whether the server has enough or not.

Your thoughts?

 

[PsionicArchon]

To my knowledge Minecraft does not support multithreading, so it is only using one core. Thus, his outdated duo core processor functions like an outdated single core processor. I presume it has a low clock speed, so it's probably not able keep up. You should check the task manager while he runs Minecraft to determine which resource he needs to improve.

This is more of a common misconception now. While Minecraft isn't built around multithreading and, certainly isn't properly optimized for it having multiple cores helps drastically.

Here's a screenshot of load balancing across multiple cores while I'm playing: http://i.imgur.com/iwgKt57.png
Usage is pretty evenly distributed amongst each physical core. Since this is an i7 chip cores 1, 3, 5 and, 7 are not physical cores. These threads aren't being used so Minecraft is not hyperthreading.

If I only had one or two cores I would assume based on this usage that modded Minecraft could easily max out a single thread. I'm not even hosting the world right now. I'm getting this level of usage by connecting to a server. Right now my chip is running at 3.6ghz, equal speed to your chip.

 

[John.E]

Single threaded CPU performance is not necessarily comparable across processors based on the speed of the processor. Here is a list of CPU comparisons for Single threaded performance. Notice that CPU speed is all over the place.

 

[ProfessorMudkip]

This is more of a common misconception now. While Minecraft isn't built around multithreading and, certainly isn't properly optimized for it having multiple cores helps drastically.

Here's a screenshot of load balancing across multiple cores while I'm playing: http://i.imgur.com/iwgKt57.png
Usage is pretty evenly distributed amongst each physical core. Since this is an i7 chip cores 1, 3, 5 and, 7 are not physical cores. These threads aren't being used so Minecraft is not hyperthreading.

If I only had one or two cores I would assume based on this usage that modded Minecraft could easily max out a single thread. I'm not even hosting the world right now. I'm getting this level of usage by connecting to a server. Right now my chip is running at 3.6ghz, equal speed to your chip.

Hmm yes, I have an i7 too, and have similar results. I should've tested it myself first.

His is an old Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 3.0 Ghz, and mine is an AMD FX 8150 @ 3.6 Ghz. So if MC only uses one core, is my processor only marginally better than his? I have 16 GB of Ram in my rig, but don't have any issues whatsoever. How does my rig outperform his then by so much? His is really my main concern. That and determining whether the server has enough or not.
Your thoughts?

Clock rate is only useful for comparing CPUs in the same family, because there is micro-architecture to consider. But, it appears that multithreading is possible, just not optimized.

 

[John.E]

Something you can try to see if the bottleneck is CPU or memory: open task manager. Under the Performance tab you can see CPU usage as well as memory usage. Try to create a new world on your nephew's computer. You should be able to see if either the memory or CPU usage caps out.

 

[MC_Ninja38]

I'm not sure what benchmarks are showing a negligible difference between a processor with two less cores, perhaps you are looking at single threaded application benchmarks?

I have a couple of friends who switched away from their dual cores and saw pretty remarkable performance improvements. One of them wasn't able to generate their own world but, they were able to join a server.

As for Intel vs AMD, if you have the cash Intel chips outperform AMD chips across the board when it comes to gaming. Does it warrant the significantly higher price tag, that's debatable.

For anyone wondering, I run around 178 mods (basically Monster) with two gigs of ram dedicated to the client. I've yet to run into any issues hosting a world. My processor gets thrashed though, at 4ghz I'll see usage upwards of 30% when hosting my own world.

I would disagree on the Intel vs AMD. Intel chips are more expensive than the main line AMD Chips because of Integrated Graphics and Notorious Brand alone. AMD decided that if you're getting processors with high end core speeds and counts, that you're either building a gaming rig, or production rig, both of which require a dedicated GPU. Because of this, AMD decided to throw out integrated graphics for all but specific chips. Most Ryzen series chips marked with a 'G' at the end will have integrated graphics, and the only reason for their use is when a dedicated graphics card is not viable (i.e. standard office computers). Other than that, most standard Ryzen chips will perform near-par with their Intel counterparts, with usually negligible difference.

 

[Cptqrk]

6 year necro... well done..

Could have been an issue 6 years ago.

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

Very impressive necro post.
Yo can one of the forum devs please make it so new members can't reply to threads older than a month since the last message, this is getting out of hand.