I know, but most people who are new to modded MC only remember the Manager. And I love that function, it's just so darn good.
Logistics Pipes Vs. Applied Energistics
- Thread starter RandomMoped
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actually yeah you can with a subnet,
requires a controller a storage bus an interface and a level emitter on the subnet and a export bus on a main net
well for each item you need to manage you need a level emitter and a export bus
Actually I've created LP factories since 1.2.5 through 1.5 and I've followed LP through that time...even submitted a couple of bug reports. AE is relatively new but once I switched to it, I've never looked back.
I'm curious as to what you mean by "a rainbow in this regard". Can you elaborate? And can you also elaborate on how my knowledge of LP manipulation is limited?
Actually I've created LP factories since 1.2.5 through 1.5 and I've followed LP through that time...even submitted a couple of bug reports. AE is relatively new but once I switched to it, I've never looked back.
I'm curious as to what you mean by "a rainbow in this regard". Can you elaborate? And can you also elaborate on how my knowledge of LP manipulation is limited?
Then you were not looking for what LP is truly about: Sorting and item manipulation. In regards to the rainbow vs black and white; AE offers: Fill it up, empty it, and very little in-between. This is why I previously stated the two are fundamentally different mods. LP focuses on sorting/supplying items and allowing you to move exact amounts any and everywhere. AE focuses on storage and autocrafting. The other properties of the mods that are similar are there to support the main points of the mod not be apart of the main point. This would be why I said your knowledge of LP seems to be limited despite having used it since 1.2.5. I would still stand by that assumption and would further assume that you relied on the same modules used in 1.2.5 rather than newer ones when used in these later versions. Again this is not meant in offense it just seems that you either think very little of LP's ability to control each individual item or simply have no need for it personally.
First off, I'm not offended at all (I don't give you that power). I'm simply trying to understand what you are talking about. Maybe you know something I don't know? I'd like to know what I don't know that you think I should know...that way I can learn it.
I do think you are making some assumptions without basis; "I choose not to use features of LP" is not the same as "I don't know about features of LP". Your last assertion was more correct. "I simply have no need of it personally" might be a better fit for where I am at. I recognize that it's easy out here to assume someone is clueless, but in my opinion that's not an excuse for just jumping to that conclusion.
So lets look a few examples, and maybe you can see what I do or do not know.
In LP, to create a storage system for autocrafting, I would always group mats into categories. Each category required: 1 diamond chest, 1 MK2 chassis, 1 poly item sink module, and 1 provider module. These had to be interconnected and routed, and once you start attaching quarrys to the network you might need two or more per group (e.g. dirt/cobble). Additionally, min(64,chest inventory) of your mats are required to stay in the chest doing nothing, so the poly item sink can work properly. You could configure a regular item sink module to have use of those mats, but then that requires you to actually configure the item sink module which is tedious. You also have the problem that the item sink module is at a lower priority than a poly sink, so if you make a mistake and accidentally put an item that belongs in an item sink configured chest into a poly sink'd chest...you'll wind up with issues. Anyway, each category requires 4 craftable items which are each complex crafts and take a large number of mats. (This is why the first thing I'd craft in an LP crafting system is LP components themselves.) If you try to use this system without a default route or with any configuration issues in your item sinks or provider modules, you'll spend at least 2-5 minutes (longer for some people) finding out what's wrong and fixing it. Extensive testing of any LP system is almost mandatory given the number of configuration parameters involved.
In AE, to create an equivalent storage system for autocrafting, I'd need an ME drive and one or more storage modules. As long as I'm not going for 16k or 64k storage modules, this uses far less mats, and takes far less time to set up and configure. In fact, it's dead simple and there's really nothing to configure. If you want sorting, use the features in an ME access point.
So in LP, if I want to make a train ride and autocraft railcraft tracks for my ride without having to go back home, I'd have to attach a crafting pipe to a chest next to the rolling machine, and a satellite pipe on the rolling machine itself which is configured to match the crafting pipe. Sometimes this would mysteriously fail, especially on larger jobs. There were times that you would find tons of mats in the machine but the machine refused to craft. Other times the crafting pipe would fail to remove the finished items from the chest.
In AE, just an import bus and export bus is required. It just works. Again, dead simple.
Finally, if I want to keep a couple stacks of refined iron around because I make tons of wind or solar gens and I don't want to wait around for these to cook? In LP, you need to use an alternate network and a "gateway" chest. The gateway chest has a supplier pipe on the alternate network that keeps the chest supplied with X amount of refined iron from the alternate net. The alternate net has a furnace with a crafting pipe which crafts iron to refined iron, and a provider pipe from the chest where you store your regular iron. If you run low on iron, the system doesn't care...it's going to make sure that you have X amount of refined iron anyway. There's no way to tell it "don't use iron if the iron amount I have falls below Y".
In AE, an import bus, an export bus, two level emitters, and a furnace are all that's needed. No alternate network. You point both emitters to the export bus, configure the export bus to only export if no redstone signal is sent, then configure one emitter to emit a signal if there isn't enough iron, and the other to emit a signal if there is enough refined iron. That's it. Less simple than the above, but the requirements are less simple too.
So I'm curious if you have better solutions to the above problems that maybe I've overlooked in LP? Maybe I'm doing this all wrong? Perhaps the modules have changed some very recently? I really haven't used LP for over a month now and I did note that the mat cost for LP components has gone down in the latest builds. What else am I missing? Just as importantly, how would I know I have missed it?
Thanks for your cogent reply.
Not to dismiss any of your arguments, because really they perfectly nail what AE is best at, it seems AE's strong suits is what you're looking for. Which is what it all comes down to. LP's primary purpose is not autocrafting or storage or manipulation of storage therein. The ability to move items in a specific detailed manner is what it is best at. Though not a huge number of people need such levels of specificity those that do are very vocal about how much it has something within LP that perfectly suits their needs(Something like when an LPer stages a situation in which they'll need something from a mod to show it off but it actually happens). AE on the other hand, I think, hits home with a far larger audience because it is a broad spectrum storage and crafting made simple mod. It removes the tedium from crafting and any kind of sorting or storage at the cost of specificity. It's very straight forward layered crafting of the same recipe with crafting materials from other layered recipes. Not only well documented but is also largely understood by most mod players to an extent that it is very powerful. LP caters to specific needs and situations which is why many people find that they work extremely well in tandem. You also said it in the last question; it is poorly documented and largely is not understood by most.
It's not very precise, although mostly you don't need perfect precision. When the "enough refined iron" signal turns on, there will still be some iron cooking. This would be a bigger issue the longer the items take, e.g. FZ Crystallizer. I had a similar problem using a subnet with LEs and Dark Cable to keep an Enderchest stocked with 32 torches. In the end I went with a Router system, which meant that I had to have exactly 64, with another 64 in the Router. Not a problem with torches, but more of an issue with more expensive items.
While I'd struggle to find situations where I would use LP over AE, I can certainly agree that LP shines in this area. I'd certainly use LP in tandem...maybe to run an induction smelter in a supply mode for things like hardened glass (as opposed to on-demand). Since they appear to have nerfed the range of the request pipe, the one thing I was certain to add LP for is no longer as useful.
You could implement these ideas by using RP2 timers, MFR's PRC with a suitable timer circuit, or (technically) a vanilla redstone clock and logic gate system. Use the "export on redstone pulse" mode of your ME export bus, connect the clock to one input of an AND gate, and the level emitter to the other input of the AND. Connect the output of the AND gate to this ME export bus. Not as simple as a supplier pipe, but quite effective.
Recently, I decided to switch to Logistics Pipes from AE. For storage, I am using chassis with providers and polymorphic itemsinks and I like that concept of customizing pipes with various modules and upgrades. However, I really lack the compactness of AE if it comes to machine processing. I liked the way you put a ME Interface and set up multiple smelting recipes with patterns and for Logistics Pipes, I need to set up different crafting pipe on the other side or set up a row of machines dedicated to each recipe.
I like how autocrafting works (though it costs a lot of wood to set up) but it lacks forge dictionary compatibility, i.e I can't craft a chest with other kind of wood unless I specify to do so. I miss sorting by item count, ID's from AE if it comes to request pipe, sometimes it's cumbersome. And it's not that energy consuming so that's a big plus. However, I will stick with AE for most of the time, I love the simplicity and compactness.
I like how autocrafting works (though it costs a lot of wood to set up) but it lacks forge dictionary compatibility, i.e I can't craft a chest with other kind of wood unless I specify to do so. I miss sorting by item count, ID's from AE if it comes to request pipe, sometimes it's cumbersome. And it's not that energy consuming so that's a big plus. However, I will stick with AE for most of the time, I love the simplicity and compactness.
Whose giant hate? I haven't seen any hate for LP in this thread. p.s. I browse with signatures turned off.
If what you want is for example, tracks for a rail system, use an ME Interface, Export bus and a level emitter. Export set to craft, makes tracks into the interface, and shuts off when it reaches a couple stacks, then the logistics pipe has a constant supply to pull from. Of course if the Rolling Machine is broken it won't work, but it's the easy way to ensure a constant supply.
I haven't actually had a chance to play with LP, but I've been running AE systems for several worlds now. It's very handy only having to try and draw items from a single system, instead of having to build each area as it's own individual network. I can see where Logistics pipes could solve half of that, but I'd end up with a single huge storage chamber. The one thing I can see however, is that if you're using barrels, then AE is a little easier to work with because a storage bus doesn't care what side of the barrel it's on, where a logistics pipe would require a sneaky pipe functionality to deal with it, thus requiring a more advanced pipe. On the other hand, I could probably seriously compress my isolated bauxite processing system from 30 blocks to 10.
I haven't actually had a chance to play with LP, but I've been running AE systems for several worlds now. It's very handy only having to try and draw items from a single system, instead of having to build each area as it's own individual network. I can see where Logistics pipes could solve half of that, but I'd end up with a single huge storage chamber. The one thing I can see however, is that if you're using barrels, then AE is a little easier to work with because a storage bus doesn't care what side of the barrel it's on, where a logistics pipe would require a sneaky pipe functionality to deal with it, thus requiring a more advanced pipe. On the other hand, I could probably seriously compress my isolated bauxite processing system from 30 blocks to 10.
So, you want an answer? Here's my answer.
- Yes, autocrafting with non-stackable items is still a pain. It's my one big annoyance with LP.
- I've never had an issue with the rolling machine - perhaps you're not using the crafting pipe mk III?
- Storage? Yeah, AE is more compact. That being said, space is really not generally an issue. Not to mention that LP now interfaces properly with barrels and DSUs. Also, if your power goes, with LP you can get items manually. With AE, you're dead in the water.
- AE does not work with every machine - try making tesseracts, for example. Either you have to keep a liquid transposer full of ender pearls (which is wasteful and means that the crafting monitor doesn't properly show "you need more ender pearls"), or you need to have annoyingly large and complex piping. With LP you can just slap down a sat. pipe and a crafting pipe and be done with it.
- Provider pipes are compact. Also, they can be used in situations where export busses don't really work well.
- I really really really dislike AE's crafting system.
- If I want to try to make a gravichestplate, and I don't have enough resouces, LP will tell me. AE will start crafting intermediate things that are useless without the entire thing.
- Also, with AE I have to look at the crafting monitor and wait for the entire craft to see if it will work.
- Not to mention that LP has the remote requester that has a much higher range than AE's remote.
- AE has a constant power draw even when used as a pure storage system.
- AE doesn't have a good way to connect small flung-out bases. The network bridge requires an absurd amount of power at both ends.
- AE has network resets every time a block is changed, which wipes out current crafts.
- AE requires large amounts of quartz - two materials that are non-renewable. Even aside from that, AE stuff is expensive.
- AE cannot have pipe wire / gates / facades in the same block
Nothing is wrong with chests...if you have the space. Some worlds (before barrels) I would have a line of 30 chests. This is a lot of room in my factory, and I prefer some compactness. Also, I would always run out of space for something (especially for things like cobble), and having two chests on your network providing the same thing is kind of dicey. I'm never sure which chest wins.
Also, even with these 30 chests, I still found myself using my remote requestor into my ender pouch to get mats. I cannot stand "being an ant on speed" ... running to this chest to get X and that chest to get Y so I can load another crafting table. I type very fast, so typing is not an issue with me.
I will say that running out of power on an AE system is very bad. Even though my power systems rarely fail since I am into redundant tiered battery storage, the risk of not being able to get to mats to fix the issue is non-zero ... so I always have to keep some mats in an ender chest.
Now these are some good issues (some of them). Just some comments:
- The crafting pipe mk III required an assembly table if memory serves. I never had documentation on why this was so much better, so I never used them. Perhaps this might have solved my issue?
- I can easily make tesseracts with AE, not sure what the issue is here. With a minium stone, 4 iron = 1 ender pearl so I'm not worried about keeping a transposer filled. AE just crafts the ender pearl for me (easily, unlike trying to craft these in LP...in which you would have to replace the minium stone when it wore out) and I usually have tons of iron by the time I need tesseracts.
- How are provider pipes any more or less compact than export busses? They look the same size to me.
Finally I don't know why they nerfed LPs requestor like they did. I agree that AE's idea for remote connection is a bit under powerered and I don't know why mod authors feel they have to "balance" distance.
I lost a huge inventory system with full diamond chests, sorted by redpower sorting machines, to combustion engines filled by only one aqueous accumulator. So many lessons learned
I finally found about about the F7 key and will never have an errant spawn like that in my base again. But, like all huge disasters, I suddenly get unbored when I have a giant mess to clean up and rebuild.Slye. He seems to dislike LP a lot, and his signature is "I was wondering why the baseball was getting bigger. Then it hit me".
Am I a bit dense, or missing some obscure cultural reference, but how does Slye's signature suggest his deep unending hatred of logistics pipes - and I think he has stated his case for Applied Energistics well without appearing to show much if any "dislike" of Logistics pipes. Are we reading the same thread?
Also can anyone tell me what the range of the remote requester is. Say I had two bases on the opposite end of a biome (must be around 500 blocks at least), would the remote requester work? If not, could I have an ender chest or tesseract at each base with the appropriate pipes on them (I forget which ones).