Let's Talk About Bees Baby Bee, Let's Talk About...

[Reddis]

Ok so ya my pun was pretty lame but you know =)

Seriously though, I am hoping one of you experienced bee keepers can help me understand the point of bee keeping. I finally spent some time learning how to breed bees, but other than being able to craft a rare or hard to find resource (like emeralds or pipe sealant in a world without cacti) I just don't see a reason for it. There appear to be no end game tools, no end game machines or structures or armor...

 

[Pyure]

Ok so ya my pun was pretty lame but you know =)

Seriously though, I am hoping one of you experienced bee keepers can help me understand the point of bee keeping. I finally spent some time learning how to breed bees, but other than being able to craft a rare or hard to find resource (like emeralds or pipe sealant in a world without cacti) I just don't see a reason for it. There appear to be no end game tools, no end game machines or structures or armor...

Very much depends on the pack and whether or not it has resources that are rare/annoying to get.

Some people just really hate mining, and if the pack doesn't support early/mid game quarries, bees can be a solution to that. Bees can also generate rare resources such as wither skeleton skulls and ender pearls.

In packs like Infitech2, the oregen is unusual: You can't just plonk down a quarry and expect to get All Teh Resources. Bees in that pack act as a massive ore-multiplier for the ores you do find (they make your ore yields go way further but don't independently generate a lot of resources).

 

[GamerwithnoGame]

There was actually a skyblock pack devoted to bees (the rather amusingly named "Bee Happy"), where bees were the primary resource generators!

I think with bee breeding its not about the end result, but the journey - that's always the feeling I've gotten. Its not like many mods where the aim is ultimately to get some super-duper-mega-gear, and the difficulty of said task is the impediment to that - with bees, the challenge of breeding them to get better bees IS the point, in and of itself. Its genuinely quite challenging to breed the traits you want into bees (and breed out undesirable traits) - especially the high end ones. While there are easier ways to get resources, bees are a potentially infinite source too, which is helpful if you have no endless quarries.

 

[Pyure]

As a rule of thumb bees are never worth the trouble to get the resources they give.

Every rule has exceptions, and the key here is that if the unlimited resource they give has no other source, or no other unlimited source, they rise in value. As you said, pipe sealant in a world without cactus.

Another exception is packs with unconventional ore gen. e.g. packs that do not benefit from plonking down a quarry. (So packs where everything loads in clumps or veins)

Generally speaking, if I'm playing, say, a direwolf pack, if I want lots of diamonds and redstone, I just put down a quarry somewhere random and walk away for 20 minutes.

In packs with clumped oregen, there's no such thing as this. If you put down a quarry somewhere, you're just as liable to scoop up nothing at all except cobble. Which also means you're at constant risk of having no source of diamonds/redstone at all.

In packs like these, redstone/diamond bees (to continue that example) can be crazy over-powered. Once you have a bee that can make diamonds, you can easily scale that up so that you have an unlimited, constant stream of diamonds. (Depends on the pack and the bee scripting of course. Infitech2 doesn't tolerate that. Bees are resource-multipliers, not resource generators)

 

[GamerwithnoGame]

In packs with clumped oregen, there's no such thing as this. If you put down a quarry somewhere, you're just as liable to scoop up nothing at all except cobble. Which also means you're at constant risk of having no source of diamonds/redstone at all.

Yep, absolutely - I played a custom pack which completely changed the oregen so it occurred in veins of differing shapes and sizes - trying to find ores randomly was a nightmare and usually unsuccessful. What that DID do was render Thaumcraft 4's Pickaxe of the Core an absolute must-have - its "prospecting" ability (where ores appear as glowing orbs visible through the rock) was the only way to find stuff half the time!

Infitech2 doesn't tolerate that. Bees are resource-multipliers, not resource generators)

I'm really intrigued about this, you mentioned it earlier as well - I'm going to have to look into what you mean by that, as I like the sounds of it!

Re bees in general, its broadly the same issue as you get with Magical Crops or AgriCraft (if enabled) - scale-up can lead to a profusion of resources. I will say that I can completely understand why the breeding of bees could be the reward in itself. I mean, its not MY idea of fun, but having watched DW20's FTB Retro playthrough, I can understand the appeal.

It would be interesting if there was some way to reward progress with the bee breeding in addition to the usual. Perhaps a level-up system, whereby the higher you get with bees, the more you can control lower bees; instead of just building upgrades, you can imbue your bees/bee-related stuff with additional abilities or bonuses, or maybe even something more esoteric. I mean, not a beard of bees that you can launch at mobs or anything, but...

 

[Pyure]

I'm really intrigued about this, you mentioned it earlier as well - I'm going to have to look into what you mean by that, as I like the sounds of it!

Short version: In this pack, when you macerate ores, you get "crushed" ores which normally go through a couple more steps (dirty ores, purified ores, dusts) before they become Ingots.

Bees get injected right after crushed ores. To use iron as an example, you combine your crushed iron ore with iron beecombs in a chemical reactor, and instead of getting approximately 2.5 iron per ore, you get much more. I forget the exact number. Probably something like 6 or 7 iron per ore.

 

[Reddis]

@GamerwithnoGame while I am not experienced with Botania, I would think there has to be a natural integration between Forestry and Botania... I mean bees use flowers to make everything right? Perhaps there is a linear progression through Botania's flowers where you have to breed certain bees to pollinate (cross breed) flowers.

 

[GamerwithnoGame]

Bees get injected right after crushed ores. To use iron as an example, you combine your crushed iron ore with iron beecombs in a chemical reactor, and instead of getting approximately 2.5 iron per ore, you get much more. I forget the exact number. Probably something like 6 or 7 iron per ore.

Dude that is AWESOME. That's one of the most novel uses I've ever heard! Curse my ancient and ailing computer...

@GamerwithnoGame while I am not experienced with Botania, I would think there has to be a natural integration between Forestry and Botania... I mean bees use flowers to make everything right? Perhaps there is a linear progression through Botania's flowers where you have to breed certain bees to pollinate (cross breed) flowers.

You'd think so, but not so much (well, at all!); bear in mind that Forestry dates back to 1.2 Minecraft, whereas Botania didn't crop up with a full release until 1.7 (although there was a more basic version usable in 1.6.4 - believe me, I've tried it), and the bees have remained mostly unchanged for a lot of the time Forestry has been out, so there has just never been any integration.

More learnèd folks than I would be able to tell you whether 1.10 has brought any integration, as I believe both Forestry and Botania are available.

 

[Pyure]

Dude that is AWESOME. That's one of the most novel uses I've ever heard! Curse my ancient and ailing computer...

Awesome for people who can tolerate Gregtech

 

[Henry Link]

I've lost track of how many times I've used bees for a fuel source. I've created oil, gasoline, yellorium, uranium, etc. Fully automated to the point it shuts off the hive when more isn't required so I'm not just building excess.