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Is moving spawners OP?

Discussion in 'General FTB chat' started by Tigerlore, Jun 6, 2016.

  1. Tigerlore

    Tigerlore New Member

    I keep getting the impression that people think that to move spawners there should be a very high price, i.e. the cost should be nether stars or greater.

    Why?

    With 15 stacks of cobble I can make a vanilla mob grinder that will give me 30 levels in 15 minutes. I've made this so many times I'm bored of it and would like the option of moving spawners to make something a bit different.

    I'll admit that JABBA's diamond dolly is a bit on the cheap side, but by the time I have a nether star I've already made my dark room out of cobble and have better things to do with nether stars.

    Now, a cursed earth blaze spawner is OP, but that's cursed earth and you don't have to move the spawner for that to work.

    I can see requiring some ender pearls, blaze rods and maybe even a ghast tear or two for something that can move spawners.

    Why should it be more expensive than that?
     
  2. jordsta95

    jordsta95 New Member

    Because a mob spawner can garner PERFECT XP AND DROPS. You know exactly what you are going to get, and that they will be efficient without working much for it.

    If you come across a Blaze Spawner, you know to make that into a farm you have to work in the nether, and you know you will always get blaze rods from your farm.
    If you make a mob spawning box, then your drops are random, the XP is dependent on what drops/if anything at all, and you are less efficient as you can only spawn at a natural rate, whereas you could stack 20 spawners around you, and watch the mobs flow, if you are able to move spawners.
     
    rhn likes this.
  3. GreenZombie

    GreenZombie New Member

    That said... What with blocks like cursed earth and the various powered spawners, none of which crucially require a player to be nearby, it would be nice to see a mod that gave vanilla spawners some prominence. There is so much that can be done by editing spawner NBT data and yet no mods do.
     
    RedBoss likes this.
  4. Tigerlore

    Tigerlore New Member

    The natural spawn rate is really high if the only place for mobs to spawn is in your grinder. All it takes is some cobble and a couple hours to build, and I've never actually built a three-level darkroom because a single-level works so well. I think most modded players are only familiar with the simple dark room style that is commonly used with skyblocks. Those are fine, but there are much more powerful ones that can be built. Add some redstone and packed ice and it gets ridiculous.

    I'll admit being able to move blaze spawners is nice, but not worth a nether star. Why would I hunt down 20 blaze spawners when charcoal farms are so cheap?

    I'm not going to use a mod if there are vanilla techniques that do the same thing much earlier in the game.

    I can't help but suspect that many mods rely on players not knowing vanilla very well.
     
    Booker The Geek likes this.
  5. Henry Link

    Henry Link Popular Member

    OP is well OP. Everybody's opinion of OP is different. Personally one of the reasons I play kitchen sink packs is to get some of that OP stuff. While I typically don't move spawners very often. I usually go the route of a cursed earth dark room for mob essence then I use safari nets or some other spawner method (soul shard, ender IO, DE, etc.).
     
  6. Tigerlore

    Tigerlore New Member

    Hmm, I'm generally on the side of harder is better but there's no point in making an expensive tool that has an easy way around it in vanilla - unless the mod breaks that workaround.
     
  7. sgbros1

    sgbros1 New Member

    If you want moving spawners that is expensive, you could disable everything but MFR's PortaSpawner.

    Those things take 1 nether star each.

    Amd they break after moving a spawner once.
     
  8. PierceSG

    PierceSG New Member

    He is asking why people think moving spawners should be expensive.
    He himself said that costing nether stars is too much.
     
    RedBoss likes this.
  9. sgbros1

    sgbros1 New Member

    Well that's what happen when I'm reading it at 7am
     
  10. GreenZombie

    GreenZombie New Member

    Also utterly ridiculous as, once you have access to nether stars, you don't really need to move spawners anymore.
     
    Tigerlore and RedBoss like this.
  11. ICountFrom0

    ICountFrom0 Forum Addict

    Overworld spaners, if kept in the overworld, not much of a gain over being able to just make a box spawner.
    Likewise if you could only move the blaze spawner around in the nether, then likewise you'd not gain much.
    Seems to me the ability to jump them from dimension to dimension is where the overkill level of power is.

    Course bigger tech mods have ways to artifically generate spawning behaviors, so it's not like you can't do better then the basic spawners with them.

    Either way, it seems being able to shift the enviroment monsters spawn in is the advantage.
     
  12. jordsta95

    jordsta95 New Member

    But when you twin this with mods that add custom spawners; creeper, endermen, custom mobs, etc. Then you see more power from moving them
     
  13. Inaeo

    Inaeo New Member

    The power level of moving a spawner is directly tied to the mods in your pack. For instance, with just Vanilla, moving spawners allows for much improved mob farming. Also take into account the ability to move a Skeleton spawner to the Nether allows for vastly improved rates of Wither Skeleton spawns. In a Vanilla world, this is extremely powerful.

    When you have mods with other mob farming methods, the level of power in the mechanic in question drops significantly. XU Cursed Earth is faster, more reliable, and easier to control, so again, the need for spawner movement is lessened and the power mitigated. Mods like MFR make Vanilla spawners an exploration hazard at best.

    Because packs are modular, the power a Vanilla spawner carries will vary, but most packs these days have some sort of mob farming system in play. Locating a spawner in the early stages can still give a nice leg up (renewable bonemeal and arrows, string, or even just XP is always good), but as your game moves along, your reliance on that spawner will likely fade. Even farming a Blaze spawner loses its luster after you have a few stacks of rods, unless you plan to do something crazy like run your power grid off them.

    Adding a price tag to a mechanic with such widely varying levels of power is a tricky game, so I think most devs opt to lean on the expensive side.
     
    RedBoss, ICountFrom0 and PierceSG like this.
  14. PierceSG

    PierceSG New Member

    With mods that provides their own version of mob spawners, like EnderIO, MFR, Soul Stones, etc, the capability to move the spawners aren't that attractive anymore if the cost is a nether star. Even though most of the spawning mechanism requires power, but I'm sure no one is bitching about that.

    Moving spawners seemed OP in vanilla, but it isn't needed.. Vanilla MC isn't as resource hungry as modded MC (even for modded MC, how many kind of drops do we need a constantly running farm for?), so 30 minutes of waiting at a spawner farm will usually yield what you need for a long while. Spawner moving is a just a luxury, so IMO the high cost doesn't really matter.
     
    Inaeo likes this.
  15. Azzanine

    Azzanine New Member

    I agree but also don't agree with OP.

    As there are other much better options available then vanilla spawners making them cost nether stars to move them seems hamfisted.

    At least in comparison assuming that those better methods are cheaper. I think maybe the modder in question has a different balance point then the pack you are playing. So moving vanilla spawners costing nether stars is both worth it and not worth it, well balanced and unbalanced.

    Plus a pack with DE in it makes nether stars cheap as trash.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
     
  16. Inaeo

    Inaeo New Member

    Do remember that the majority of mods are designed and developed in a vacuum. A Nether Star to move a spawner with just one mod on top of Vanilla is costly, but is occasionally a luxury worth having.
     
  17. Azzanine

    Azzanine New Member

    Uhh yeah? I detail that in the next paragraph.

    It's only comparitivly ham fisted. If a mod let you right click to harvest a spawner you wouldn't even waste dirt on another method.

    Easier mods are shaping OP's perception of difficulty and balance.
    If all the easier spawning mods decided to require netherstars OP would then be wrong.


    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
     
  18. Tigerlore

    Tigerlore New Member

    So, hypothetically let's say I have a mod that requires a netherstar and provides a way to move spawners in an otherwise vanilla modpack. Why do I want to use it? I'm only going to want one beacon for practical purposes, i.e. speed mining. Maybe to move a skele spawner to the nether so I a can get a bunch of beacons for decoration? There are probably other reasons but none, I suspect, have anything to do with progression.

    It may be possible to build a pack where the progression justifies using a netherstar for moving a spawner, but I think it would take some very careful thought.

    I suspect much of the argument justifying the extremely high cost of moving a spawner is because it is something that isn't possible to do in vanilla, but nearly all the problems that are solved by mod that does that have relatively simple solutions in vanilla. The only problem that isn't simple to solve is getting wither skulls - but you only need those for obtaining netherstars.
     
  19. Lethosos

    Lethosos New Member

    I have thoughts about letting spawners be moved--but only with pistons.

    Sent from my Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron using Tapatalk 2
     

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