To prove my point, I would like to point out that I was messing with my pack, and I added Refined Storage. And then when I launched the game it started laggy badly. I removed Refined Storage, and the lag goes away.
Infinity Evolved or Beyond
- Thread starter Nuclear_Creeper0
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I think that speaks more to the fact that 1.10.2 is still early in the dev cycle. Where 1.7.10 had a very long dev cycle so most issues were fixed by mod devs. For the most part mod dev's do not mod for a specific pack. There are a few exceptions but for the most part they are developed to work stand alone or with a dependency on a specific mod. For example Thaumic Tinkerer required Thaumcraft and Logistics Pipes required Buildcraft.
Also, the 1.10.2 dev cycle is going to stay short. I've already seen some mod devs stop support for 1.10.2 and are only fixing issues in 1.11.2 now.
Did you start with Infinity Evolved? Or did you start modded before that because if you remember correctly. You never made your own modpack before curse. You went through the Technic Launcher. There were a few modpacks that worked extremely well.
Prior to 1.7, making a custom pack was hair pulling at minimum. Block ID conflicts, Potion and Dimension ID conflicts, a few mods that straight out refused to work together. It was a nightmare. Once 1.7 removed block IDs, making custom packs became simpler. With the advent of the Curse Repository, suddenly making your own custom packs was just a few clicks away. Sure, Potion and Dimension IDs can still conflict, but most of that gets ironed out with little drama, and many mod devs have worked to move their default values to not conflict when repeated conflicts occur.
Maintaining a public pack currently is somewhat unique or a situation, as the landscape is changing rapidly. The 1.10 window is already closing, as mentioned above, and 1.11 is the new hot platform. Unfortunately, if a single mod in your pack decides not to update, or is slow to do so, you are left with the hard decision to either stand pact until that mod is ready or face moving on without it (which depends heavily on what mod it is and how prominently it is featured in your pack). This gets more complicated when devs decide it is in their best interest to simply skip a version and concentrate on the next window, such as the case with Buildcraft skipping 1.10 in lieu of 1.11.
Staying in 1.7 has a tremendous advantage of a stable, predictable platform with a massive selection of mods available. The major downside is the lack of new features in Vanilla (for better or worse, depending on who you ask) and a decided lack of dev support, as they focus on the future versions. I don't have any hard numbers on it, but I feel like the majority of the playerbase has moved on to 1.10, unless they had a project in a 1.7 pack which they want to finish before moving on - in which case very few of them will be looking for a 1.7 pack anyway.
1.10 has a bunch of new content, Vanilla and modded, but that content has had less time to mature. Again, no real data, but I suspect more players are active in this version currently, but as mods move to 1.11 more players will go as well. If you're planning a kitchen sink style pack, you may want to consider the 1.11 window (obviously dependant on which mods have already developed working versions).
I'm intrigued by this statement. Superior is subjective, so I'll leave that alone. You claim to want less lag, but want to add more content rather than "trim the fat" - particularly adding Mekanism, which has a history of creating FPS black holes. Any ideas how you plan to achieve this? From my experience, Beyond is the pinnacle of optimization for 1.10 packs I've played this far - it runs smoother than a few packs I've played with half the mod count. I know everyone starts their pack thinking they want anyone to be able to run it smoothly, but that goal is MUCH harder than people give credit.
Maintaining a public pack currently is somewhat unique or a situation, as the landscape is changing rapidly. The 1.10 window is already closing, as mentioned above, and 1.11 is the new hot platform. Unfortunately, if a single mod in your pack decides not to update, or is slow to do so, you are left with the hard decision to either stand pact until that mod is ready or face moving on without it (which depends heavily on what mod it is and how prominently it is featured in your pack). This gets more complicated when devs decide it is in their best interest to simply skip a version and concentrate on the next window, such as the case with Buildcraft skipping 1.10 in lieu of 1.11.
Staying in 1.7 has a tremendous advantage of a stable, predictable platform with a massive selection of mods available. The major downside is the lack of new features in Vanilla (for better or worse, depending on who you ask) and a decided lack of dev support, as they focus on the future versions. I don't have any hard numbers on it, but I feel like the majority of the playerbase has moved on to 1.10, unless they had a project in a 1.7 pack which they want to finish before moving on - in which case very few of them will be looking for a 1.7 pack anyway.
1.10 has a bunch of new content, Vanilla and modded, but that content has had less time to mature. Again, no real data, but I suspect more players are active in this version currently, but as mods move to 1.11 more players will go as well. If you're planning a kitchen sink style pack, you may want to consider the 1.11 window (obviously dependant on which mods have already developed working versions).
I'm intrigued by this statement. Superior is subjective, so I'll leave that alone. You claim to want less lag, but want to add more content rather than "trim the fat" - particularly adding Mekanism, which has a history of creating FPS black holes. Any ideas how you plan to achieve this? From my experience, Beyond is the pinnacle of optimization for 1.10 packs I've played this far - it runs smoother than a few packs I've played with half the mod count. I know everyone starts their pack thinking they want anyone to be able to run it smoothly, but that goal is MUCH harder than people give credit.
I've been dealing with modded minecraft since 1.2.5. So been a LONG time. And I've tinkered here and there with adding mods and making private packs in 1.6.4 and 1.7.10. It wasn't until 1.10.2 that I released a public pack on Curse/Twitch.
The way I intend to remove lag is to remove all the little mods that one person looks at in a blue moon. Thinks like apple shields and the other small mods that add a few things. While keeping the core mods that are better made and work together better. You see specific mods in Beyond are not used by many. So removing those mods eases the load on your computer. But the gameplay doesn't change. Also I've never experienced FPS issues with Mekanism, just a lot of resources.
Also why ever update the packs? It's not like Vanilla Minecraft servers are updating past 1.8.9 due to lack of enjoyment in the 1.9 PvP system.
If you believe the lack of Vanilla PvP enjoyment is in any way correlated to the advancement of modded Minecraft, you are mistaken. No matter how you feel about the Combat Update, mods continue to be developed for current versions, which means if mod packs don't also update to contain the new content, potentially world corrupting bugs will never get fixed. Sure, you don't have to update, but that's not doing any favors for your players (or your own reputation as a pack developer), and people will jump to a new pack rather than miss out on new features and bug fixes.
Oh everything is related to Vanilla minecraft, we would not be talking without Vanilla minecraft. The fact that servers aren't updating should be a cue to mod developers that people don't like the recent game updates and to stay in 1.8.9. Plus why even release Beyond Expert Mode in 1.11 when 1.12 is coming out within the week I believe.
Even though 1.12 maybe coming out in a few week. It will be at least 6 months before we start seeing a lot of mods being developed and published for it. Also, there was a good reason 1.8.9 was not developed heavily in modded minecraft. It was a bad version for mod development. A few did make the jump but the vast majority waited until 1.10.2 before starting to get back into the dev cycle. The advantage this did have was a very long dev cycle for 1.7.10 which made fore a very stable platform for mod packs. Until we have another dev stall like that again we probably will not see real stable packs. I do sort of which forge would just skip every other version of minecraft to give us longer dev cycles but alas I don't contribute to forge so I have no real say in how people choose to donate their time to develop forge. Same goes for modders.
You're right that everything is related to Vanilla Minecraft. That's not even up for debate. What I'm saying is, the modded community and the Vanilla PvP community don't have a ton over overlap, in my experience. I'm not saying that they are mutually exclusive, but the players of each usually have drastically different priorities in their gameplay experience.
The Vanilla PvP play style has been the same up until the combat update turned it on its head. It's not my bag, but to each their own, and I know a great many people enjoy it. The changes to the Vanilla mechanics changed their entire game, since the PvP crowd don't do much cosmetic building or redstone contraptions. Vanilla PvP is only one facet of the game, which gets focused on in a one dimensional way. The other pieces of the game that many continue to play for don't extend into the PvP gameplay experience, so if they wish to maintain the game as they enjoy it, they are forced to stay in versions predating the combat update. The only other option is to bite the bullet and learn to play using the new mechanics.
Players not dedicated to just PvP are not restricted in the same way. If someone plays Minecraft because they enjoy building, the combat update does not affect their gameplay in the same way. This is particularly true with the modded community, as the focus of only a small sector of mods rely on combat as a focus, and those that do are well within their wheelhouse to change those mechanics. The change to the single mechanic can be overlooked if enough other great things are available to offset the change.
Personally, I enjoy the changes to the combat mechanics, but I've never been a PvP guy in Minecraft. I feel there is more skill involved in the PvE fights than there was before, and since that's how I play, it fit right into my immersion. I know others, even in the modded community, hate it with a raging passion, and their opinion is equally valid. But saying mod packs shouldn't be updated because a group of players (who generally don't use the mods) don't like changes to a single mechanic comes off as ignorant to those who do use those mods.
On the topic of Expert Mode releasing for 1.11, it has been under construction since Beyond first dropped, but they knew full well that the 1.10 window would pass before they were ready to release. So rather than put out a product that was immediately out of date and unsupported, they opted to develop Expert Mode in the 1.11 window. Even knowing that 1.12 is around the corner, it will take some time to get a working version of Forge in which porting and development can begin. Because of this intermediary step (writing and testing Forge), there is usually a gap between the launch of a new Minecraft version and mods being available for it. If they opted to make Expert Mode for 1.12, they would not only have to wait for Forge to release, but for each mod in the pack to update and test to releasable standards before they could begin their job of tweaking and intermingling the recipes. That timeframe simply doesn't make sense.
First off, the number of combat and adventure mods is fairly equal to the number of tech mods, Orespawn, Runic Dungeons, The Twilight Forest, Chocolate Quest to name a few. Thats another reason I prefer Infinity Evolved to Beyond. There's that little spark of adventure in the pack that Beyond doesn't have.
Plus PvP is what most servers depend on. Hypixel: 28000 players online. 11000 in bedwars. (Boss at Bedwars, So good I get accused of hacking)
With TiC sniper bows, and the variety of swords, the combat update is almost unnoticable. On the other hand, if you're experiencing lag with Beyond, check your Java version. Newer ones seem to behave better than some of the recent ones.
It appears my views of Beyond have changed since I first played, I downloaded it over two months ago. And the lag was worse than any modpack I've ever seen. Most of the time I was at 1 FPS. Recently I reopened up Beyond and it seems that they updated it to be less laggy.
Again, I think you missed the point. A modded server doesn't rely exclusively on combat to entertain people, whereas a Vanilla PvP server does. This makes the change felt much more dramatically, as it is the sole mechanic being dealt with. Therefore, modded servers are less impacted by the change because more content is drawing attention away from the change.
As the development cycle continues to move forward, stability and playability will continue to get better. If you're comparing this to Infinity at the end of the abnormally long 1.7 development cycle, it's not really a fair fight. Unfortunately, 1.10 will come to a close before these levels can be reached, but I've found that Beyond actually runs smoother (due to the improvements in base code from 1.7 to 1.10) than Infinity did on my Frankenpotato of a computer. Each system handles it differently, however.
Just going to throw a couple of pence in here too - the new TiCon really WAS written for 1.9+ - it's technically Tinker's Construct 2 I believe? So that assumption may not be quite correct. And as for Refined Storage, it's NOT because it's a 1.10 mod, it's because of how it's coded - you're not the only one, a YouTuber whose Skyfactory3 series I watched found exactly the same thing - near a bunch of working RS crafters, the lag was REAL. But AE2, had no problems (though the advanced inscribers from AE2 Stuff DID).
It's really not just down to 1.10 being "worse", though the fact that most 1.10 packs need 4 GB of RAM as a minimum cannot be denied - so you're right in that there IS a version factor to consider!
It's really not just down to 1.10 being "worse", though the fact that most 1.10 packs need 4 GB of RAM as a minimum cannot be denied - so you're right in that there IS a version factor to consider!
I think your missing the point, you shouldn't need an ultra fast computer to run the game, a standard dell laptop should be perfectly fine to run a modpack. I run 1.10.2 Vanilla perfectly fine on the same computer I played Infinity Evolved on. No problems at all. The only time I've ever experienced lag is in 1.10.2 modpacks.
You don't need an ultrafast computer to run Vanilla. You do need a minimum amount of RAM to get most mod packs off the ground - the base requirement depends heavily on which Minecraft version you are running and the number of mods in the pack. Changes in the base code between 1.7 to 1.10 attempt to shift some of the bottleneck at the CPU (Minecraft is written as a single threaded application) to use more RAM instead. This means that some systems which could handle large 1.7 packs are no longer the optimal system to run large 1.10 packs. As the 1.10 development cycle moves forward, this gap is closing (mods like Foamfix and BetterFPS can help some people more than others).
Comparing Beyond to Vanilla 1.10 simply isn't fair, as there is so much more that your system has to process with 150+ mods present. The key is determining if the lag you are experiencing is FPS or TPS related. TPS issues is the server side struggling to process all of the information and calculations on time (20tps is optimal). FPS issues are the client side not keeping up with rendering and lighting updates. That's a bit oversimplified, but the reason it's important because a fix for one issue isn't necessarily the fix for the other.
On the other hand, some mods are currently written in ways that are not fully optimized for the platform yet. This usually happens to some extent in new versions, and it usually irons itself out as the development cycle moves forward. Comparing 1.10 mods to 1.7 is apples to oranges at this point, as the extended development time in 1.7 allowed mods to be polished to levels we may never see again.
Comparing Beyond to Vanilla 1.10 simply isn't fair, as there is so much more that your system has to process with 150+ mods present. The key is determining if the lag you are experiencing is FPS or TPS related. TPS issues is the server side struggling to process all of the information and calculations on time (20tps is optimal). FPS issues are the client side not keeping up with rendering and lighting updates. That's a bit oversimplified, but the reason it's important because a fix for one issue isn't necessarily the fix for the other.
On the other hand, some mods are currently written in ways that are not fully optimized for the platform yet. This usually happens to some extent in new versions, and it usually irons itself out as the development cycle moves forward. Comparing 1.10 mods to 1.7 is apples to oranges at this point, as the extended development time in 1.7 allowed mods to be polished to levels we may never see again.
