All these mods are rather brilliant, but does anyone else get the feeling they discourage creativity? For example, a vanilla sorting system using hoppers + comparators is really quite ingenious. But with mods, you don't get any of this, you just build a single block that does it for you. With AE, you don't even need that. Logic gates are another thing that spring to mind: in vanilla you can build these lovely redstone contraptions that simulate logic gates, but with mods there's no reason to, you just get a block to do it for you. I just wondered what everyone else's thoughts were on this.
I like FTB, but there's just 1 problem with it.
- Thread starter Shakie666
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Overcomplication is my middle name.
When I make Redpower sorting systems, I make it overly complex and don't stop to think of a better way.
Because I like Overcomplication.
All this stuff?
It encourages overcomplication.
That's why I only use AE if I have to.
When I make Redpower sorting systems, I make it overly complex and don't stop to think of a better way.
Because I like Overcomplication.
All this stuff?
It encourages overcomplication.
That's why I only use AE if I have to.
A problem with FTB?
Inconceivable!
Inconceivable!
FTB allows you to skimp over the sometimes time and space consuming vanilla redstone type logic because it allows you to hop into the mod area of contraptions. You're not making a redstone rube goldberg machine anymore you're making one of actual machines.
Some of it boils down to necessity.
Take the igneous extruder, for example. It's a single-block cobble generator that goes forever. Not at all creative compared to a manually built setup that uses actual lava and water source blocks placed in the world, but in FTB, if you want cobble generation you want a LOT of cobble generation. Plonk down a dozen vanilla cobble generators and you've just inflicted a large amount of lag on your server; plonk down a large amount of igneous extruders and you'll have no such problems.
Take the igneous extruder, for example. It's a single-block cobble generator that goes forever. Not at all creative compared to a manually built setup that uses actual lava and water source blocks placed in the world, but in FTB, if you want cobble generation you want a LOT of cobble generation. Plonk down a dozen vanilla cobble generators and you've just inflicted a large amount of lag on your server; plonk down a large amount of igneous extruders and you'll have no such problems.
I'm making a robot creeper using RP frames that is 70 blocks tall and uses 300 frame motors and 175 wireless receivers. The mods don't restrict creativity, they just require you to think bigger. Instead of lamenting over what the mods now do for you, focus on what they allow you to do that you couldn't do before. Creativity doesn't mean starting from the simplest elements and creating something. It means starting with what you've got and creating something.
This.
My first modded-Minecraft worlds got very boring very quickly because I was just trying to accomplish the same things that I tried to accomplish in vanilla. And it was much too easy. If you run into that problem, just ramp-up your goals!
That said, I do agree that there is something beautiful about how much can be accomplished with the lesser capabilities of vanilla mechanics. So to each his own.
FTB is a mod pack service. FTB is not a mod. Why do people not understand this?
Mods that discourage creativity are ones like EE, Soul Shards, and other way too automated things that requite little effort for large gain. Mods shouldn't be a do it for you mentality but, here are the tools, do it yourself.
Mods that discourage creativity are ones like EE, Soul Shards, and other way too automated things that requite little effort for large gain. Mods shouldn't be a do it for you mentality but, here are the tools, do it yourself.
Because it makes no difference to many if not most.
It wouldn't matter if they had to do it themselves either they'd still pay no attention to who the author of the mod is. Most simply do not care.
all that said... there is also the issue of lag.
You can build a huge redstone thing using defaults but you can do it small and less lagy when mods.
Size is not the same as complexity. Redstone being the biggest space consumer for anything complex can be rendered down to smaller bits with mods and those bits are far less taxing on your system. With that issue taken care of you can now think bigger more grand builds becuase you dont have that over head and you have so much more room to work with it. Not to say anything about the new mechanics that get added to the mix allowing for builds not even possable with default MC. Want to do more then Carts theres a mod for that. Want to make huge farms there are mods that help with that. Want to build sweet looking builds there are mods that add so many options for that. Point is Mods when used correctly give you more options and more ways to do things then default.
Its is like saying have 256 colors intead of 16 some how limits your creativeness. While I belive that limits and advresity help grow your creative side having more tools and options does give your creativeness more paths to explore.
You can build a huge redstone thing using defaults but you can do it small and less lagy when mods.
Size is not the same as complexity. Redstone being the biggest space consumer for anything complex can be rendered down to smaller bits with mods and those bits are far less taxing on your system. With that issue taken care of you can now think bigger more grand builds becuase you dont have that over head and you have so much more room to work with it. Not to say anything about the new mechanics that get added to the mix allowing for builds not even possable with default MC. Want to do more then Carts theres a mod for that. Want to make huge farms there are mods that help with that. Want to build sweet looking builds there are mods that add so many options for that. Point is Mods when used correctly give you more options and more ways to do things then default.
Its is like saying have 256 colors intead of 16 some how limits your creativeness. While I belive that limits and advresity help grow your creative side having more tools and options does give your creativeness more paths to explore.
EE at its core, when done right, is a whole new element to modded minecraft. It's just done poorly now, with durability on stuff.. And requiring mobs to make the item.. everything like that. The perfect EE, Equivalent Exchange, would be the Transmutation Tablet being made easily and having no durability, and having more accurate EMC values. You can still turn wood into obsidian for a low amount of EMC, you can still turn cobble into diamonds, etc. It's not cheating or easy mode. It's just a different way to play the game. Give enough of X for Y. I think it's pretty fair, not having a whole tier system with diamonds and whatnot. It also takes the luck and time wasting out of mining. I'd really love to see a research system (much better than TC3's "throw stuff in and hope for the best, and get a ton of useless duplicates") that's really simple and logical. Like researching water and lava can teach you how to make Obsidian before you harvest it and get diamonds. Overall I hope EE3 doesn't keep adding in all these dusts and machines and stuff.. Or maybe EE4 will be a more simplistic idea with less of a progression and durability focus and more equivalency focus.
Yea I love(d) everything about ee except the collectors. I have zero problem with the condenser, it's your mass, do what you want with it! I had my own little chemical sample / periodic table thing goin on over mine
Mods like EE or Soul Shards do some things for you (typically the boring things) to allow you to do even bigger and better things than you could do before. Or at least, that's the goal. Balance will always be an issue, but the fundamental concepts are sound. Like you said, they're tools. More powerful tools allow for more elaborate projects.
^ Yepyep. It just removes boring grunt work *shrugs*. You had to have a sample block to transmute... if you got it once you've proven you have the means / wherewithall.. so if I'd rather turn a diamond into obsidian than mining some up... who is that hurting? It's my mass.
In EE2 you had to "learn" blocks, right? I think that was a big mistake, as is any tier or unlock system. A research system could easily let you get diamonds or obsidian without have to "unlock" them. Like you can go to the nether without getting diamonds and other stuff. And you could get Mycelium by researching mushrooms, seeds, bonemeal, and dirt etc.