How would I slow game progression down?
- Thread starter zorn
- Start date
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if you REALLY want to slow down your game:
no item/power/liquid teleporting
no forestry
bump AE to hard mode (10x power consumption)
bump up mfr power costs up to 12x as high
no boilers
no solars
no wind/water mills
no Dartcraft or anyautomated mining besides thaumcraft
no lava power
no quaries
no CC
all automation with railcraft or routers
no TE
no facturization ore processing
update to 1.6.4
install the 1.6 gregtech
nerf generators nukes and all other power souces by 5 x
add mods like zombie awareness
no item/power/liquid teleporting
no forestry
bump AE to hard mode (10x power consumption)
bump up mfr power costs up to 12x as high
no boilers
no solars
no wind/water mills
no Dartcraft or anyautomated mining besides thaumcraft
no lava power
no quaries
no CC
all automation with railcraft or routers
no TE
no facturization ore processing
update to 1.6.4
install the 1.6 gregtech
nerf generators nukes and all other power souces by 5 x
add mods like zombie awareness
Best way to slow the game down? Play with an inexperienced friend. Your progress will be halved until about 50 hours in.
On my most recent build, I resolved to use 99% Solar power. I even enabled power converters, but aside from that initial day or two of coal/coke power for the base, once I start cranking out advanced solars and batboxes, I slap my hand every time I think about boilers, magmatic engines, or any other power source. It's been a fun challenge, and it's been especially neat to see what kind of lengths I've had to go to once I got to the ultimate hybrid solar (bees, yo). Sticking to a single reliable but small power source was fun, though. I had to think a lot more about how many machines to build and whether to even upgrade some of them.
Conversely, rather than doing more with less, you could always set yourself some benchmarks in mods you don't usually use - thaumcraft has a pretty extensive research thing going on - telling yourself that you won't build a second boiler until you've got your first golem-powered farm or something like that might be a fun challenge if you haven't done much with that mod, or if you usually save it for late-game.
Conversely, rather than doing more with less, you could always set yourself some benchmarks in mods you don't usually use - thaumcraft has a pretty extensive research thing going on - telling yourself that you won't build a second boiler until you've got your first golem-powered farm or something like that might be a fun challenge if you haven't done much with that mod, or if you usually save it for late-game.
that's also a nice way of challenging yourself. don't stop yourself from using machines or items, rather set conditions for using them
You think 512Eu/t/chunk is a "small power source?" lol
They are by far the most OP power source out there. They are way more OP then then reactors are. Think about this...you get 512eu/t in the day time with out the need for any fuel then in the night time you still get 64eu at night (btw I live in real life on solar power and you never get power generation from solar at night) then on top of that they store 1,000,000eu.
This is the worst way to slow a game down in this whole post
You think 512Eu/t/chunk is a "small power source?" lol
They are by far the most OP power source out there. They are way more OP then then reactors are. Think about this...you get 512eu/t in the day time with out the need for any fuel then in the night time you still get 64eu at night (btw I live in real life on solar power and you never get power generation from solar at night) then on top of that they store 1,000,000eu.
This is the worst way to slow a game down in this whole post
By endgame, yes - positively broken. Early-midgame? Not really. It's kinda like exercising with ankle weights. You're slower and more easily exhausted at first, but after a while, you catch up to and easily pass the folks that weren't using them.
To me, "slowing down the game" is particularly about slowing down that middle part of the game when you usually break through to tier 2-ish and early tier 3 machines. Devoting a chunk of a limited infrastructure to producing uu-matter and then having to manually mine/find/quarry up the uranium required for each solar panel (especially pre-bees, which is a whole challenge unto itself) instead of just throwing a pump into the nether or attaching a boiler to a tree farm is, in my estimation, still a challenge, and definitely slows the game down, which is what the OP was asking about.
I think the main problem is that there is no real way to do this that isn't artificial. Even on 1.6 IC2 + GT it wouldn't take an extraordinary amount of time to reach what could be considered "creative mode end-game". If you take pleasure in shortening that time span do so. It's unlikely you'll find more pleasure in an artificially extended world.
Well my own idea was to disable harvesters, auto spawners, remove
MPS and Ee3 and ender chests. No gravisuite. Disable quarries and remove turtles. Is it "artificial" to make these changes and will they not slow down the game? Also apparently forestry has harder settings too.
I was just looking for more suggestions. Like one person said you can increase the power draw of harvesters. That would be good. Right now my single tree farm is running 5 boilers and still stockpiling charcoal. What size boiler? Always the largest because the cost to build one has "gates" like blaze rods and steel but I had thousands of iron stored by the time I got to make steel, so there was no reason to even think about making a smaller boiler.
My friends who just started have all built TE systems and some forestry stuff by hand mining only. When they build something, they really have to look at the cost involved. Gregtech is nice but you still end up in pseudo Creative mode with respect to all of he OTHER mods within a few game hours of playing. That's what I'm trying to stop.
Ideally I think removing harvesters and if there was a way to increase the cost of running a quarry, it might work. As one person said, it's about extending that mid game more. Ic2 miners? I wonder when the last time was that most anyone playing ftb used them?
Also a few always say to self regulate- why did forge craft make hard server changes then? There has to be a reason.
I don't think removing ender chests and tesseracts is an artificial lengthener of the game. The main reason for this is because it almost necessitates using railcraft if you want to move items a medium to long distance. For many people, this exposes a new aspect of gameplay that has, in my opinion, lots of fun things to keep you occupied for a good while. You can also build the railway as long as you want. I enjoy making long scenic railways. I am in the middle of building one for fun (admittedly in actual creative mode) that is many thousand blocks long which is really nice with Biomes o plenty. I haven't tested running a train the entire length of the track, but it takes about 15 minutes for a 6 cart long train to travel about 2/3s the length. That in itself slows the game down.
This will likely feel very ranty/preachy/opinionated. Read at own discretion.
I don't feel like replying to the rest atm but to this; the majority of the people that play forgecraft wanted harder settings I would assume. It is quite possible to self-regulate to nearly the same extent. They all develop and understand the intricacies of almost any mod on the server- that's the purpose of forgecraft. Personally I believe this to be a major flaw.
For example your friends understanding of the mods and the full capabilities of each and every machine/block is vastly inferior to your own, it would seem. Because of this the things you plan to take away from yourself would be meaningless to them. Having 5 boilers for them would be sci-fi talk to them but a thing of normalcy for you. That's why it becomes important that mod devs, if they wish to keep a hold and draw in new players, to understand that it is not always best to balance something based on it's absolute full capabilities or it becomes worthless for people who do not yet understand the full capabilities of it. That is not to say everything should be balanced around face-value because there is a way to, at least partially, achieve balance on both sides.
That also leads to the main reasoning of why I named most of the things that can "move" the point of end game are artificial is because most, if not all, are about your ability to not use something that would get you to the end goal faster. The end goal never changes; your starting place can.
If your signature is to be believed then you may as well remove all mods; the end goal of any and all tech and magic mods is a state of "godhood". By choosing to play mods you are choosing to seek that goal. Everything done unto that is a stepping stone to that goal.
I'll reply to the other stuff a bit later if I don't forget.
E: Oh and try not to take my posts to heart so much; you replied as if I attacked you somehow.
So isnt removing teleporting items then a way to extend game play? The cost of a long rail line is much more than a tesseract, and takes more time to set up. So isn't removing ender chests a good idea for what I want to achieve then? I want to have less resources, and to have the game require more resources, so that Im always struggling, not staring at 10K lead that I have nothing to do with within a short period of time. If i disabled quarries and turtles and teleportation, now it becomes a real challenge to get lots of basalt from a volcano 500 blocks from my base. (I still play with redpower, heh)
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I have the exact same problem. I would like a longer progression path, but i need small steps of things to archive. Just making it a ever lasting grind is not the right thing for me.
So on the actual Server with "unleashed" the limitation was no quarry. It turns out to be a lot more fun to go mining between the things i build. But even with that i jumped from little bit starting power directly to a 36 HP Boiler. The MFR Laser solved every resource problem and i lost the interest to do much more.
So next time for me i will be using no automatic mining (except for Steves Carts and IC2 Miner). I will generate every bit of power using IC2 (for mJ Electrical Engines,..) Nukes. No Lava from the Nether. I will use Thermal Generators but only over world Lava.
I think for me is the only good way to limit myself in what i do. The game With all Mod Options the progression is way to fast (GT is only more grind).
What i think would be nice is a tech tree. No not in the game, more a list on paper you can follow.
1. Generate power with only wood
2. Build a Peat farm so you get peat engines for power.
3. when you have at last 6 peat engines running self sustained. You are allowed to build a pulverizer.
Something like this.
So on the actual Server with "unleashed" the limitation was no quarry. It turns out to be a lot more fun to go mining between the things i build. But even with that i jumped from little bit starting power directly to a 36 HP Boiler. The MFR Laser solved every resource problem and i lost the interest to do much more.
So next time for me i will be using no automatic mining (except for Steves Carts and IC2 Miner). I will generate every bit of power using IC2 (for mJ Electrical Engines,..) Nukes. No Lava from the Nether. I will use Thermal Generators but only over world Lava.
I think for me is the only good way to limit myself in what i do. The game With all Mod Options the progression is way to fast (GT is only more grind).
What i think would be nice is a tech tree. No not in the game, more a list on paper you can follow.
1. Generate power with only wood
2. Build a Peat farm so you get peat engines for power.
3. when you have at last 6 peat engines running self sustained. You are allowed to build a pulverizer.
Something like this.
I didn't really read the thread, so if my answer is off, please forgive me.
One way you could slow down, would be to create a device that requires massive power draw, focus your boilers on that, and then build a separate power system for everything else. I would even put a switch to bring the boilers back onto the man powerlines if you felt that you needed it.
Now the first machine that comes to mind is the matter fabricator. It will eat whatever you give it. But, at the same time, it is one of the most boring machines I've ever seen.
The only other thing that I could fathom would be a continually running system that produces some kind of expensive doodad. Perhaps melt cobble into lava, and then run that through a bunch of centrifuges. It's really up to you.
That way, you don't have to set limitations on yourself, and at the same time, you have a new project to work on! Two, really. A secondary power system to replace the boilers, and something to divert the boiler power to.
One way you could slow down, would be to create a device that requires massive power draw, focus your boilers on that, and then build a separate power system for everything else. I would even put a switch to bring the boilers back onto the man powerlines if you felt that you needed it.
Now the first machine that comes to mind is the matter fabricator. It will eat whatever you give it. But, at the same time, it is one of the most boring machines I've ever seen.
The only other thing that I could fathom would be a continually running system that produces some kind of expensive doodad. Perhaps melt cobble into lava, and then run that through a bunch of centrifuges. It's really up to you.
That way, you don't have to set limitations on yourself, and at the same time, you have a new project to work on! Two, really. A secondary power system to replace the boilers, and something to divert the boiler power to.
How about this:
A) "One of a kind": You limit yourself to a single instance of each energy producing machine (different variants are OK, as long as there is no identical ones).
For example, you can have a 3x3x4 HP boiler, a 3x3x3 HP boiler, a 3x3x2 HP boiler, but you cannot have 2 ideantical ones. You can have a single ultimate solar, a single advanced solar, etc.
In the beginning it wont be too restrictive, but in later-game you will have to carefully balance where the power goes because you have a finite amount of it.
The objective is to change the mid-endgame from "autocraft 30 new boilers" to "what can i turn off to be able to macerate even faster?"
B) "Equilibrium overload": Each power producing machine or group of machines have to be connected to a power storage unit. If it becomes full, it should trigger a small explosion at your power producers.
Example: You have a boiler with a couple pieces of TNT on top, if the energy cell associated with it fills it automatically triggers the TNT.
The objective is that you have to add logic (in any shape or form) to control your power production/consumption so that your equipment does not overload.
Both stopping the production (terrible for boilers) or creating "power sinks" to consume it all are valid strategies to prevent overloading.
The objective is to carefully plan for and account every new addition/substraction to your power net, and design self-control systems to contemplate variances.
Or both
A) "One of a kind": You limit yourself to a single instance of each energy producing machine (different variants are OK, as long as there is no identical ones).
For example, you can have a 3x3x4 HP boiler, a 3x3x3 HP boiler, a 3x3x2 HP boiler, but you cannot have 2 ideantical ones. You can have a single ultimate solar, a single advanced solar, etc.
In the beginning it wont be too restrictive, but in later-game you will have to carefully balance where the power goes because you have a finite amount of it.
The objective is to change the mid-endgame from "autocraft 30 new boilers" to "what can i turn off to be able to macerate even faster?"
B) "Equilibrium overload": Each power producing machine or group of machines have to be connected to a power storage unit. If it becomes full, it should trigger a small explosion at your power producers.
Example: You have a boiler with a couple pieces of TNT on top, if the energy cell associated with it fills it automatically triggers the TNT.
The objective is that you have to add logic (in any shape or form) to control your power production/consumption so that your equipment does not overload.
Both stopping the production (terrible for boilers) or creating "power sinks" to consume it all are valid strategies to prevent overloading.
The objective is to carefully plan for and account every new addition/substraction to your power net, and design self-control systems to contemplate variances.
Or both
Removing item teleportation is a way to extend game play. I could have made myself clearer I think.
What I meant was if you have the right selection of mods available (for example, railcraft), removing item teleportation isn't necessarily an artificial lengthener of the game. It doesn't add a tedious grind to replace it, with no new interesting game play or design challenges. If you still want long distance item transport you have railcraft to help you out. An artificial lengthener of the game, in my opinion would be to just make replace the iron in a recipe with iridium without changing what the item does, to put it crudely (p.s. that is not always a bad thing, especially if the original recipe was just a placeholder, and there are probably other good reasons too).
I admit that in my last post I may have been stretching the definition of the word artificial, but I was just trying to tie in what I was saying with a trend I noticed in the recent conversation. I hope that cleared up any confusion, besides I think we are in agreement anyway (on this matter at least
).EDIT: Forgot to write removing item teleportation at the top: Fixed
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I've actually used item teleportation to get me a challenge, as I'm not using any pipes at all. Everything goes through ender chests and translocators. I'm having to think about the layout of my builds, scream in annoyance at having to farm sooo many blaze rods (pearls are no big deal). I'm not even attempting a system where it can deal with automated mining input, so all my mining has been by hand.
I'll be moving back to "pipes" to give me more control (in some situations, having my wheat farm run out of wheat and seeds, and my cow farm overload in cows and meat ingots was unexpected!). I only done this as I hadn't tried this method of item moving before. A self imposed challenge.
Really though, quarries should have x10+ MJ cost, but alas there is no config to adjust their power use. Especially on servers where you can log off and obtain all the resources. Single Player, you need more quarries and more power to obtain the materials, as nothing happens if you are not playing.
I'll be moving back to "pipes" to give me more control (in some situations, having my wheat farm run out of wheat and seeds, and my cow farm overload in cows and meat ingots was unexpected!). I only done this as I hadn't tried this method of item moving before. A self imposed challenge.
Really though, quarries should have x10+ MJ cost, but alas there is no config to adjust their power use. Especially on servers where you can log off and obtain all the resources. Single Player, you need more quarries and more power to obtain the materials, as nothing happens if you are not playing.