How to make FTB more than just a collection of mods

[mti_]

First of all let me say that Ill present my own idea and wishes to you, feel free to disagree and discuss.
I think that a mod-pack could be more than just a collection of mods that suit eachother made compatible and work.
I think a mod-pack could add its own value and find its own niche/apply a twist.
Let me show you where I am comming from on this one.
(Ill be talking from a dw20 prespectie as that is the pack im using atm.)

Whenever I start play a mod-pack that I know most mods in I get the same problem: After the initial resource gathering I build the same setup every time. I use the mods Im most familiar with and that work best for me. There is absolutely no use in side-grading other than the challenge of building a working machinery compound.

A good example of that would be sorting systems.
There are so many different options for sorting your items and when setup properly they do mostly acomplish the same thing. I build one sorting system and I expand that. I never touch on any of the other mods abilities.

Now lets get to what I thought of:
When I first saw the research functionality in TC3 I got this idea for a more linear mod-pack.
What if you were to progress through a "research-tree" of some sorts? What if all you could craft when jumping into the game are vanilla items. What if every mod and every item in it is classed as a certain tier or age?
You could progress from stone-age (quite literally with your stone pickaxe and sword) over to having the first cool,intelligent and multi-purpose blocks. Lets say you build a chest and after storing a couple items and crafting a couple chests you are able to research/develop new things in the "storage" part of the tech-tree. Lets say for instance the concept of the barrel or extending your chests with iron plating to make them bigger (Iron chest mod).
You would naturally progress through the games content rather than build only golden chests and barrels from the start.
I think that would work with almost all mods (and for the others a work-around could be found). Lets say you find some rubber, some redstone and some conductive materials. You start researching into electricity and start building low-tier cables and storage units. You eventually learn to build some basic machinery.
Transport is also a sensitive topic for me. Atm its only balanced by the ressource cost of the individual mods.
BC pipes are dirt-cheap but not the most advanced system. Lets assume that in my vision that would be the entry point to transport. You research the basic pipes. You learn to waterproof and electrify them. You reseatch how to sort (diamond pipe) and how to deal with overflow (obsidian, hoopers, ...). Eventually you can start researching into more intelligent solutions such as RP2 tubes.

These ideas would mean that every mod has a use, that you have to progress through different ages of technology and that you cant just mine for a couple hours straight and then build advanced machinery from the get-go.

The reason Id love that so much is because that would bring MC closer to structured games like Anno, Settlers and even 4X games but with that creative freedom we love so much.

 

[Omicron]

Your suggestion means well, but unfortunately you are suggesting more or less the same thing as saying "why can't all countries in the world work together on a space program for glorious colonization of our solar system".

Just like countries, all the mods are standalone entities who develop for themselves, not for others. They bring with them their own culture, their own values and a hundred individually different approaches to the same universal questions. There is nobody in the world who is able to unify all these things, unfortunately, even if all the modmakers stood aside passively and let it happen. But, just like countries, a good number of them stand only to lose status and influence in such an effort, because they would have to come down to and be integrated on the same level as some other, less influential mods. And you can bet that the mod authors in question are going to be vehemently opposed to such a thing.

Just try asking GregoriusT how he feels about making GregTech just one in a line of 40 different content mods that get progressively unlocked and then superceded by the next. I bet his choice of words would make a bronx rapper blush.

 

[Lambert2191]

I got this idea for a more linear mod-pack.

Why would anyone want a more linear experience in Minecraft..?

and your "idea" sounds a lot like Better than Wolves.

 

[mti_]

all the mods are standalone entities who develop for themselves, not for others.

I dont expect the mod devs to do it. It would be a seperate crew with their own project which would ultimately improve balance by a mile (to my mind). Atm you chose which mod you wonna use and you use that. Once you are setup you are done and there is no actualy reason to take it any further, basically you get bored immensely quickly because more often than not there is only one right/the most potent choice for the task you want to accomplish.

Why would anyone want a more linear experience in Minecraft..?

Because half of the stuff in the mod-pack is obsolete.
We reset our dw20 server very frequently because its quite easy to obtain "OP" blocks/mechanics. There is no balance across the board and many new mods pretty much replace old ones. A linear progression in each category doesnt mean there is only one thing to do at a time. You can still decide which aspect who want to focus on like storage/fabrication/transport/mining/tools/electricity networking/... at any given time. It would just be that you start off with mechanics that are rather limited in functionality and you progress towards more potent blocks. Why would you ever want to use BC pipes and IC machinery rather than RP2 with TE machines? It just doesnt make sense atm, many of the cool mods are nothing but obsolete.

your "idea" sounds a lot like Better than Wolves.

firstly i dont appreciate what the inverted commas imply and no, i dont like better than wolves because it is too limited. I want it to remain modular and for new mods to be able to get in.

 

[Lambert2191]

Because half of the stuff in the mod-pack is obsolete.
We reset our dw20 server very frequently because its quite easy to obtain "OP" blocks/mechanics. There is no balance across the board and many new mods pretty much replace old ones. A linear progression in each category doesnt mean there is only one thing to do at a time. You can still decide which aspect who want to focus on like storage/fabrication/transport/mining/tools/electricity networking/... at any given time. It would just be that you start off with mechanics that are rather limited in functionality and you progress towards more potent blocks. Why would you ever want to use BC pipes and IC machinery rather than RP2 with TE machines? It just doesnt make sense atm, many of the cool mods are nothing but obsolete.

Well I'm very sorry that you believe that. Quite a lot of people still use BC pipes and prefer BC pipes over RP2 tubes. And quite a lot of people prefer and use IC2 machinery over TE.
Both are equally valid and both have their advantages and disadvantages. Neither are "Obsolete" as you put it.

 

[Guswut]

firstly i dont appreciate what the inverted commas imply and no, i dont like better than wolves because it is too limited. I want it to remain modular and for new mods to be able to get in.

Firstly, those are (erroneously) called "quotation marks" (they are, in actuality, typewritter double quotes). Inverted commas would be using the ' (typewritter single quote).

Secondly, Better Than Wolves uses the same structured gameplay that you are advocating.

Finally, what you want is to have your cake and to eat it as well. You want a diverse modular modpack that is also extremely interwoven and complimentary. The best you are likely going to see are custom modpacks where the owner of said modpack take the time to structure everything to be as interwoven as possible. On the other end of this possibility train, you'll also see mod authors working together to make sure their stuff works properly together.

Unless you are willing to start employing people, though, you aren't going to see mod authors working directly together on a collected modpack. You should think about employing some programmers and getting that going, though. Good luck!

 

[bsb23]

Not a big fan of everything being research, its nice for a couple arcane mods but having to research for every single thing would be extremely annoying. You are coming at this from a weird angle, consolidation and rebalancing are great but making things "linear could cause a lot of gameplay issues. This is still a sandbox game we are trying to keep possibilities open, not shut them off completely except for a select few. I'm all for a single new team working together on an all-encompassing "duct tape mod" which erases exact copies, makes things more specialized (transport), and adds little missing bridges between mods. Nobody wants to do this though. Too much work and none of the work is your own.

Edit:http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/thr...eta-mod-to-make-large-mod-packs-balanced.505/

 

[Ookami5875]

I do agree with your idea, and if ever came into a full creation, I would most definitely play it. The others are right in saying that the mod developers won't do it themselves, but that is where the normal person comes in. All of the people who write the mods are normal people like us, they just have some creativity and knowledge of coding. I'm sure some of the mod makers wouldn't mind a bit extra (I understand permissions won't come from everyone. but some are pretty relaxed about how they distribute their mod) Heck, who needs the coding? If you expand upon the idea and have everything planned out, it can be like the 404 challenge and it is up to the person playing to follow those steps. Sure there is more of a leeway for a player to mess up or cheat, but that is the fun of this game. Sandbox I'm interested to see if this continues and hope to see it progress.

 

[Mero]

I play sandbox games because I want to do what I want when I want to and where I want to. I really just don't like games where you are on a train track or in a tunnel the entire game (metaphorically).

I personally don't have a problem only using 1 set path every time using the same mods the same order.

To use your sorting citing, I use rp, bc and tc sorting. Each excels at different sorting needs. I use crafting tables project tables, fabricators, auto crafting tables,
Sure I only use the pulverizer, but I don't have any other ore processing mod installed, clusters naturally go into an if.

Having linear gameplay like you want would force me too only use the first sorting system I research.
It would take away the freedom of choice that of currently available to me.
Given the option between using what I currently have set up or tearing everything down and rebuilding it everytime I research something new so I can replace the old stuff, I would chose to just leave it.

Your way would have the exact opposite affect on me. It would actually restrict what I use tyi the exact things every time.

 

[Lambert2191]

To use your sorting citing, I use rp, bc and tc sorting.

Add to that AE, RC, LP

 

[whizzball1]

This sounds exactly like BTW. If you really like this, post a thread about searching for modders to help you with this. What do you mean by researching? Do you mean TC3-like Research? Or do you mean like FTB style, where when you make x number of a, b, and c items, then you get to craft/teach y item in return?

 

[Mero]

Add to that AE, RC, LP

For you, sure. I don't use those mods.

I was just listing what I use.

That is the point though. People can will and do use more than just 1 way of doing things.
If the op and his friends can't do things more than 1 way and 1 way only, that is an issue with them, not the collection of random mods.

 

[mti_]

This sounds exactly like BTW. If you really like this, post a thread about searching for modders to help you with this. What do you mean by researching? Do you mean TC3-like Research? Or do you mean like FTB style, where when you make x number of a, b, and c items, then you get to craft/teach y item in return?

a mixture of both. the idea being that as you handle certain things you become familiar and start to experiment.
Lets say that you have a book, a diary of sorts. there are many different tabs in that book (i know MC doesnt work exactly that way atm) and you get new entries dynamically.
Lets say you plonked down 3 batboxes and you have already upgraded a normal chest to an iron chest (crafted or the "upgrader").
You get an entry like "As you fill your place with batboxes you wonder if it is not a waste of pace. Maybe you could try to aply the same principal as you did with the iron chest." And then you are lead to building a MFE.
Or when you first find some copper and you lay some redstone into the same inventory you get a new entry in the "electric" tab and it would say something along the lines of "As the redstone touches the copper you cant help but notice that it zapped you finger holding it. That was an odd moment. You will try to keep them seperately" (why not even have chests ctach fire/explode when there are elements inside that interact in some way).
To that piece of knowledge you could add new content as it comes up (e.g. "you notice that tin does not have the same effect that you noticed with copper earlier."
you then introduce the idea of containing energy within tin and transmitting it via copper and so forth.
It would be like a tutorial to the game, giving it a setting, an order something to work with.

Unless you are willing to start employing people, though, you aren't going to see mod authors working directly together on a collected modpack. You should think about employing some programmers and getting that going, though. Good luck!

It is a thought that I am quite intrigued by I was not proposing for FTB to stop dead in their tracks and drop whatever they are doing. It is a thought that Id like to put out there and see if more people can see a sense in that (not as the only way to play but as another gamemmode lets say) and like it.

This sounds exactly like BTW.

I havnt checked that mod for ages. Has it gotten new content lately cause I cant recall it being quite the way I want things to be.





Obviously many people dont like the idea of having to many set elements and restrictions in MC.
I do not propose this as a change of modding as it is I am asking if people can see the appeal of having more classic elements, a bit of a backstory and setting to play in.
The title is quite badly chosen but I did write all this in quite a hurry Ive originally only been on here for the changelog, sry.

 

[Guswut]

It is a thought that I am quite intrigued by I was not proposing for FTB to stop dead in their tracks and drop whatever they are doing. It is a thought that Id like to put out there and see if more people can see a sense in that (not as the only way to play but as another gamemmode lets say) and like it.

What you are currently asking for is unreasonable from the perspective of the FTB team, a single mod author, end users, or whatnot.

The only way this could happen would be a team of modders got together, and started making unified content. Otherwise, you'd have a much more limited version of something similar to this (look at other total conversion mods such as Better Than Wolves and TerraFirmaCraft for examples), or a project that'd never get finished because the work required to finish it.

You should start learning Java, and then start working on a total conversion system that allows for what you want. Then get other mod authors interested and to either join your team, or at least give you the ability to access their mod (most good mods have an API for this) or the like, and go at it.