How long will the new FTB packs last?

[Hydra]

I've seen absolutely nothing from Eloraam to say she's fed up with modding. In fact the post I showed, which is her most recent one, indicates the exact opposite.

That we've seen nothing at all from her, no bugfix releases for 1.4.7, no twitters and no updates for 1.5.2 is a good indication that she doesn't want to anymore. For a modder it's just a hobby and in many cases they get bored with it after a while and want to do something else. The was she's more or less disappeared is a very good indication that currently she just doesn't want to anymore. Claiming that's she's working on it and is just very to herself I find rather silly.

We've been having these discussions for a long time now. Even before the rushed 1.4.7 release which was delayed because RP2 wasn't updated. I don't understand why people feel it's so hard to let go. Modders sometimes discontinue mods. We can only just deal with it.

I'm not going into the personal part where you put me in a little box labelled "you people". Don't pretend you know anything about me.

 

[Bibble]

That we've seen nothing at all from her, no bugfix releases for 1.4.7, no twitters and no updates for 1.5.2 is a good indication that she doesn't want to anymore. For a modder it's just a hobby and in many cases they get bored with it after a while and want to do something else. The was she's more or less disappeared is a very good indication that currently she just doesn't want to anymore. Claiming that's she's working on it and is just very to herself I find rather silly.

We've been having these discussions for a long time now. Even before the rushed 1.4.7 release which was delayed because RP2 wasn't updated. I don't understand why people feel it's so hard to let go. Modders sometimes discontinue mods. We can only just deal with it.

I'm not going into the personal part where you put me in a little box labelled "you people". Don't pretend you know anything about me.

I'd probably dispute that one. Thus far, the communication that's been received has pretty much been entirely focused on "stuff's happening, it's coming". I understand that there's not much of that communication, but that's no real problem either. It's not necessary for people to be public facing all the time. There are those that prefer it, and those that prefer to be quiet until they've got something to say.

That being said, I'm not holding my breath on a release. At present, the communication has been positive, but to my mind it's kind of like the student's continual "I'm working and stuff's happening" assurances at scheduled meetings. You'd like to believe it, and there's no real problem with doing so, but you're not expecting anything soon.

I'd agree with the point made previously about including RP2 in packs by default. It's a very good mod, but, in the past 6 months people have adapted and replaced most parts of it. If it's released, I'll probably throw it into a pack, but for those holding worlds across multiple releases, it's not advisable. With the version-spam from minecraft, and the long release times, it's not feasible to assume that the new version of RP2 is going to be available when the pack's otherwise ready. I think that's the current response of the team, too (or that's the impression I got from Slow's post).

To be honest, as and when a release does surface, I wouldn't be surprised to see a pack built around it, in a similar fashion to gregtech.

 

[Succubism]

That we've seen nothing at all from her, no bugfix releases for 1.4.7, no twitters and no updates for 1.5.2 is a good indication that she doesn't want to anymore.

I'mma just stop you right there because that's where you lost me and frankly the mod has spoken about this topic already.
Unless Eloraam actually says how she feels about her mod's progress taking a downfall or her feelings towards continuing it, we have to assume that she's working on it when she says she is. Whether someone finds her progress too slow and they want to find a replacement, that's irrelevant.
Regardless it's no good jumping into the fray putting words in her mouth and assuming the worst just because her life doesn't revolve around it.

Now on the RP2 matter itself-

Whilst I agree the matter has indeed been done to death I don't agree however that removing rp2 from the discussion is ideal as it's justifiably relevant to the topic given that the reason there's no ultimate for 1.5.2, which is the main warhorse for replacing these new modpacks, is - And I quote: "due to the lack of an update to Red Power 2"

It's the elephant in the room, you just can't ignore it or tell people to ignore it without removing it entirely along with the room it's in.

 

[TheLoneWolfling]

Nobody forces you to stop using Ultimate. If anything that's what you want - if it's not changing, then you're not chasing a moving target.

The problem with this is that there are exploitable bugs still being found that aren't being fixed, and the typical response from mod authors is "that is fixed in the new update". (Or in the case of some mods, like RP2, there simply aren't any updates)

Power converters power loop, RP2 canvas bags, etc. etc.

 

[Hydra]

I'mma just stop you right there because that's where you lost me and frankly the mod has spoken about this topic already.

I see no reason a mod would object to what I said. I don't think I've used an uncivil tone in the slightest. You'll have to deal with that on a forum there will be people you disagree with.

Unless Eloraam actually says how she feels about her mod's progress taking a downfall or her feelings towards continuing it, we have to assume that she's working on it when she says she is.

That's fine with me. If you want to believe that go right ahead. I don't believe in stuff I don't see. I don't see a god working miracles so I'm an Atheist. And I don't see Eloraam working miracles so I'll assume she's taking a long break from MC modding. We'll see down the line who's right and who's wrong

I don't understand what you meant with Ultimate for 1.5.2 though. Unleashed is the new Ultimate. There won't be a new Ultimate as far as I know.

 

[Albeleo]

It really doesn't matter if she communicates with anyone or not. When the mod is ready, it'll be included in FTB unless Eloraam asks that it not be included. Other mod developers have chosen to work together because that's what they chose to do. Eloraam chooses to work alone. That's her choice. It's her right to choose it. You said yourself. She doesn't get paid for it and doesn't owe anything to anyone. That's where the conversation begins and ends. You don't like it. Tough.

Jaded's response to people whining about the mistake that happened with the Dw20 pack applies here too. The mod will be ready when it's ready, and will be included in FTB packs at that time. RP2 is her mod. If she doesn't want help or update people about it every two days, that's also her right. People on the FTB team and in this community understand that modders are people too. They have real lives and jobs. Why would anyone on the FTB team punish Eloraam for having a life?

I really don't get how someone can say "Modders don't get paid and owe up nothing," and then in the very next sentence suggest said modders get punished for having a life or not following some imaginary set of rules.

For reference because it applies:

I'm not sure it's possible to more completely miss the point of what I said.

First off, I never once attacked, insulted, or accused Eloraam of anything. I happen to like RP and I think she's a very under appreciated developer. I also did not suggest that she should be "punished", as declining to include one particular mod in a gigantic mod pack is not a "punishment" to the developer. She can do whatever she wants with her mod and develop it any way she likes.

The folks at FTB can also put together their mod pack any way they like. At this point, Eloraam isn't adding anything to FTB with her way of development; she's harming it. Everyone has to sit around waiting for her to find out if she's going to do anything even though everyone else involved is ready to go. Eloraam's last code output was...what, December '12? Nearly 8 months ago? The first videos explaining the canvas bag dupe glitch hit YouTube about 7 months ago, and 7 months later it still hasn't been fixed.

Eloraam last released on Dec. 21. She hasn't updated her blog a single time since then. Not once. She made a few updates on Twitter, then went completely dark until Feb. '13. From then, she's followed a fairly consistent pattern of tossing out a couple of tweets saying she's going to do something and then disappearing for 2 months. During that dark time, she doesn't respond to anyone, anywhere. No twitter, no blog, no forums, no LiveJournal, no Facebook, no nothing. She's just gone.

Compare/contrast to mDiyo, Powercrystals, King Lemming, Immibis, etc. who are all active right here on the FTB boards and pump out new code very regularly.

I understand completely that Eloraam has a real job in the real world that is very time consuming. She's probably updating and communicating as best she can. But it's not fair to all the other mod developers to have to sit around and wait on her while she's not responding to anyone to find out whether or not there are going to be any updated releases (beyond the occasional vague "it's coming...sometime" tweet). Mod packs need to move on, and they need to include mods with active, communicative developers. Eloraam is neither active nor communicative. So RP was dropped, and it was 100% the right call.

And I'd be shocked if it ever gets included in FTB again, because then we'll be right back in this situation.

 

[Dex Luther]

I also did not suggest that she should be "punished", as declining to include one particular mod in a gigantic mod pack is not a "punishment" to the developer.

I see suggesting that FTB not include a mod in any pack because the author doesn't follow some imaginary rules you made up as a punishment. That's why I quoted Jaded's post. The message absolutely applies here. The FTB team and mod authors don't owe you anything at all. They don't have to adhere to your or FTB's schedule. No matter how much you want them to, and you have no right to expect otherwise.

The folks at FTB can also put together their mod pack any way they like. At this point, Eloraam isn't adding anything to FTB with her way of development; she's harming it. Everyone has to sit around waiting for her to find out if she's going to do anything even though everyone else involved is ready to go.

How do you figure that? I see absolutely no post nor comment from any mod author of member of the FTB team saying they are waiting on Eloraam to finish Red Power. It's actually the exact opposite. DW has said many many times on his videos that authors were hard at work getting their mods ready.

They might have waited last time for various reasons. This time your statement is absolutely false unless you can provide evidence to the contrary.

Compare/contrast to mDiyo, Powercrystals, King Lemming, Immibis, etc. who are all active right here on the FTB boards and pump out new code very regularly.

Yeah ok, and there's tons and tons of other mods in the FTB packs, who's authors don't or very rarely post here on the forums or anywhere else. Again they do that because they CHOOSE to. They do it because they WANT TO/CAN. Not because they HAVE TO. Eloraam doesn't HAVE to do any of that and that's her CHOICE. Again, Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary, it has absolutely no impact on whether her mod will be included or not when it's done.

I understand completely that Eloraam has a real job in the real world that is very time consuming. She's probably updating and communicating as best she can

You understand and yet you complain that she isn't developing fast enough or communicating at a level that pleases you, and suggest her mod not be included in FTB because of it. Logic.

But it's not fair to all the other mod developers to have to sit around and wait on her while she's not responding to anyone to find out whether or not there are going to be any updated releases (beyond the occasional vague "it's coming...sometime" tweet).

Who's waiting? Tons of mods aren't ready for 1.6 yet, which is why FTB hasn't released any packs for it yet. It's not because they are waiting for Red Power. It's not in 1.5 because Eloraam and others decided to skip 1.5 and update to 1.6.

Mod packs need to move on, and they need to include mods with active, communicative developers. Eloraam is neither active nor communicative. So RP was dropped, and it was 100% the right call.

Red power was dropped from what? 1.5 packs? It wasn't dropped.

And I'd be shocked if it ever gets included in FTB again, because then we'll be right back in this situation.

What situation? The situation of people thinking mod authors owe them anything? The situation of people thinking mod authors have to follow their imaginary rules? The situation of people thinking mod authors have to drop everything they're doing to follow their made up schedule?

Truth is, it doesn't matter what you think or what I think. Eloraam owes us nothing. She doesn't owe us an explanation. Nothing. The mod will be finished when it's finished, and when it is the FTB team will decide whether to include it or not. Red Power, despite the slow updates, is still a very popular mod. As I stated before, the FTB team understands that mod authors have lives outside of modding, and wouldn't forgo including a popular mod just because the author has other commitments to deal with.

 

[Albeleo]

I tried to post a rational response that both praised Eloraam for her good work, expressed understanding for her real world commitments, but nonetheless explained that her secrecy and lack of updates just didn't fit in well with the needs of a multi-mod project like FTB. My hope was that it would keep things from descending into a flame war. Given your response (which accuses me of saying pretty much the exact opposite of everything I did say and somehow "hating" or "demanding" something from her), that was apparently wishful thinking on my part.

Thread closure is probably in order at this point.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Dex Luther]

I tried to post a rational response that both praised Eloraam for her good work, expressed understanding for her real world commitments, but nonetheless explained that her secrecy and lack of updates just didn't fit in well with the needs of a multi-mod project like FTB. My hope was that it would keep things from descending into a flame war. Given your response (which accuses me of saying pretty much the exact opposite of everything I did say and somehow "hating" or "demanding" something from her), that was apparently wishful thinking on my part.

Thread closure is probably in order at this point.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

All I did was answer every single one of your points. You compare Eloraam to other mod authors, which is like comparing apples and oranges. You keep making statements that are either factually partially or completely wrong or just plain speculation. You make statements which imply mod authors have to adhere to some sort of rule book on communication and mod update schedules in order to be included in FTB packs.

Something you don't seem to understand is that mod authors don't HAVE to do anything. They can communicate and update or not as often as they want. It has absolutely no co-relation with whether or not a mod will be included or not.

To prove this fact Direwolf20 regularly spotlights and adds NEW MODS into his pack. These NEW MODS weren't around or weren't updated when his pack was released, they were created and released later. Sometimes even much later. They were still added to the pack regardless of when the mod was finished. This fact alone completely invalidates your notion that because Eloraam doesn't update her mod quick enough for your liking that it will and should be completely dropped from FTB packs. It'll be added to the packs whenever it's done just like many many many other mods are.

Most recent example of this is logistics pipes. If they can update Logistics pipes and add them to the packs whenever, then they can do the EXACT same thing with Red Power whenever IT is done.

 

[Succubism]

That's fine with me. If you want to believe that go right ahead. I don't believe in stuff I don't see. I don't see a god working miracles so I'm an Atheist. And I don't see Eloraam working miracles so I'll assume she's taking a long break from MC modding. We'll see down the line who's right and who's wrong

Y'see that's where we differ, who's right and wrong here is irrelevant to me and I'd hardly put Eloraam in the same consciousness as God or whatever supernatural cosmic cloud entity you'd like to call it regardless if it exists or not.

I'm just saying you're not her personal spokesperson, so don't speak for her when she's perfectly capable of doing so herself, and if she is taking a break, so be it. The chick deserves it.

 

[cynric]

They can communicate and update or not as often as they want. It has absolutely no co-relation with whether or not a mod will be included or not.

{{Citation needed}}

 

[Vauthil]

Okay, this is not anything approaching an official "word" on this (I'm speculating as much as anybody in the thread is), but here's something to think on. Read up on this post from Jadedcat about putting together a modpack. Scroll down and check my addendum as well, if you would. Now consider RedPower2 and its issues through that lens. Revisit this post from Slowpoke as well while you're at it, too, since I have you running around reading long posts already.

Those should give you a pretty good idea of the chances of seeing RedPower2 in 1.6.

Back to the topic on longevity of the packs, I have to agree with the school of thought that says that pack longevity is what you make of it. If you are constantly chasing the "next best thing" star, you're going to have direct conflicts with the goal of "I want to have a long-standing world to stand the test of time". This is a confluence of mods shuffling in and out of the packs due to considerations not in the Mod Pack Team's control, and various updates between Mojang changes and Forge functionality changes (most of which are to match the Mojang stuff). Perhaps some day the code base will be stabilized such that the two dreams aren't in conflict, but I don't see that day coming particularly soon.

 

[Dex Luther]

{{Citation needed}}

It's not really up to me to prove a negative, but how about this (Thanks Vauthil)?

I also never want to create a situation where a developer feels they have to work harder or faster than they normally would in order to meet the demands of FTB. That is not the way it is meant to be. It is our job to work around them, not the other way around.

Feel free to post your citation explaining how mod authors must be communicative and active above a certain level. I doubt you'll find one.

I think Scotty also Explained it pretty well to LaForge:

Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: Look, Mr. Scott, I'd love to explain everything to you, but the Captain wants this spectrographic analysis done by 1300 hours.
Scotty: Do you mind a little advice? Starfleet captains are like children. They want everything right now and they want it their way. But the secret is to give them only what they need, not what they want.
Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: Yeah, well, I told the Captain I'd have this analysis done in an hour.
Scotty: How long will it really take?
Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: An hour!
Scotty: Oh, you didn't tell him how long it would *really* take, did ya?
Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: Well, of course I did.
Scotty: Oh, laddie. You've got a lot to learn if you want people to think of you as a miracle worker.

 

[Albeleo]

It's not really up to me to prove a negative, but how about this (Thanks Vauthil)?



Feel free to post your citation explaining how mod authors must be communicative and active above a certain level. I doubt you'll find one.

While you're pulling out that quote from Slowpoke, that mod authors can do what they want with their mods and are not beholden to anyone's schedules or needs (a point I've made twice that you've mischaracterized/ignored), you might want to read the rest of Slowpoke's post. You know, the parts where he basically makes every point I did about how the lack of any updates or input regarding RP2 have put them in a position that they have to move on and update without RP2 because they can't wait around forever hoping she'll update.

I would cite that as my explanation of "how mod authors must be communicative and active above a certain level", but since I've never claimed that a single time it's not necessary. You're looking at this as a black/white issue, pretending that I've said I have certain "demands" of how mods must be done and anyone who doesn't follow them must be "punished" by being banned from FTB. Seriously, back down and quit trying to make this out to be some angry flame war. I haven't demanded anything from anyone, and nobody has to change anything to suit me or not. Eloraam can do whatever she wants, but secrecy, silence, and long delays are simply not compatible with the stable release of large mod packs.

I'd give you another cite for that, but Vauthil already did.

 

[draeath]

I think you two are arguing about different things... Albeleo is saying what Eloraam is doing does not make it easy on mod packs to include his/her work, and Dex is saying Eloraam doesn't have to make it easy for them.

You know what? You are both right, and your arguments are not incompatible.



If you can't get that into your heads I think I can sense an application of this stuff is inevitable:

 

[Succubism]

I'mma say my final piece on the rp2 matter because I have a feeling people and the higher ups are sick to death of this topic. I don't like Eloraam's practices. I think she's made some pretty strange and derogative choices concerning her mod. I think she keeps her mod unnecessarily close to her chest and I find her mannerisms towards other people to be condescending and all-together prickish, even if it is somewhat justified in the loosest sense, but I digress.

Her mod shouldn't be the be all end all to any modpack. I feel like if a modpack has to use a single mod as a crutch then the modpack has issues and we have proven that we don't need it in a modpack. Unleashed has proved that and as someone said before Unleashed has become the new ultimate. RP2 should be a convenience, not a crutch and whether Eloraam wishes to continue or not, it's irrelevant at present. Hopefully indefinitely if these planned/designed/fine tuned replacements are worth the shoes they seek to fill. And they have big shoes to fill.

Just not the biggest.

Time to move on, people. It's not the end of the world or the modpack.

 

[Dex Luther]

I'mma say my final piece on the rp2 matter because I have a feeling people and the higher ups are sick to death of this topic. I don't like Eloraam's practices. I think she's made some pretty strange and derogative choices concerning her mod. I think she keeps her mod unnecessarily close to her chest and I find her mannerisms towards other people to be condescending and all-together prickish, even if it is somewhat justified in the loosest sense, but I digress.

Her mod shouldn't be the be all end all to any modpack. I feel like if a modpack has to use a single mod as a crutch then the modpack has issues and we have proven that we don't need it in a modpack. Unleashed has proved that and as someone said before Unleashed has become the new ultimate. RP2 should be a convenience, not a crutch and whether Eloraam wishes to continue or not, it's irrelevant at present. Hopefully indefinitely if these planned/designed/fine tuned replacements are worth the shoes they seek to fill. And they have big shoes to fill.

Just not the biggest.

Time to move on, people. It's not the end of the world or the modpack.

Honestly, I think Red Power should be added to the dead horse topics not to be discussed on the internet right along with Religion, Politics, and whether or not Gregtech is good.

Fact is no one knows what Eloraam is doing. The mod hasn't been abandoned or dropped from FTB. FTB just aren't waiting for it. They aren't against adding it later when/if there's an update either. That's all anyone knows, and that's really the only things that matter on the subject anyways.

 

[un worry]

Be Nice. Thanks.

Agreed.

Two highly prominent modders and LP-ers have both said in past 24hrs that RP2 is not being released for FTB 1.6 and no work has been done on it, despite the tweets to the contrary. Much as expected.

As I said earlier: Great mod for its time, but time to move on.

 

[Dex Luther]

Agreed.

Two highly prominent modders and LP-ers have both said in past 24hrs that RP2 is not being released for FTB 1.6 and no work has been done on it, despite the tweets to the contrary. Much as expected.

As I said earlier: Great mod for its time, but time to move on.

Source?

 

[Wekmor]

EthosLab released a video where he talks about that. Know sure if un worry means that, but if he does: Etho said that it seems that Elooram doesn't want to update the mod anymore, or doesn't have the time :b