How high up the Kardashev scale can you realistically get in MC?

[the_j485]

It seems every one is focused on the equation rather then the written criteria. Unless you are assuming/pretending a minecraft world is earth. Level one requires you to use ALL of your worlds energy nessesitateing the need to then harness the sun.
To do this you must calculate the maximum optimal potential energy that could be harvested/ harnessed from earth. Only then can you start calculating whether you have reached level one.

In a minecraft world you would have to account for every block of coal every burnable tree essentially anything that can be turned In to a form of energy.
Then you'd have to consume it.
Seeing though an MC world is essentially limited to your hardrive space, effectively being nearly limitless. The fact that some mods power is conceptually limitless this makes reaching lvl 1 impossible.

So what youd need to do is fill your entire drive with mc world. Derive the size of that world and figure out it's energy density by averaging out a chunks energy potential. Then that becomes your goalpost.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

I think we're going by earth for our world, not just MC, because as you've somewhat pointed out, it's a tad difficult to work out.

 

[ChemE]

Energy in a chunk eh. Okay sounds fun to me. Solar expansion's ultimate solar panel puts out 2^15 RF/t so we'll naturally put a roof of those up at build limit. So we are already up to 2^15*2^4*2^4 = 2^23 RF/t. Next we can't do much better than ReC fusion reactors all the way down to bedrock but it is going to be a bit difficult to work out how many we can stack. I'll cop out here and use a HTGR/ReC turbine w/ NH3/turbine generator setup and keep it fueled with a mining laser with 6 black laser foci which brings up *tons* of coal and pitchblende. I was able to fit that setup in 2 chunks easily and the three stacked levels consumed 20 blocks of height. I wasn't trying to absolutely flatten and cram things but I build densely naturally so let's say that is maximum density there. I can stack 12 such setups in 2 chunks all the way down to bedrock each of which puts out 1.95GW. So 6 per chunk = 1.95GW * 6 = 11.7GW + (2^23 RF/t)(520 Wt/RF) = 16.06GW/chunk.

We can build on 3.75 million chunks x and z so (3.75e6)^2 * 16.06GW = 2.25e14GW = 2.25e23W. So filling the overworld with HTGRs and an ultimate solar panel roof gets us to 2.25e23W. Someone who has built out a full blown fusion reactor will need to make a similar calculation; I suspect it will yield a dramatically larger value.

 

[the_j485]

Energy in a chunk eh. Okay sounds fun to me. Solar expansion's ultimate solar panel puts out 2^15 RF/t so we'll naturally put a roof of those up at build limit. So we are already up to 2^15*2^4*2^4 = 2^23 RF/t. Next we can't do much better than ReC fusion reactors all the way down to bedrock but it is going to be a bit difficult to work out how many we can stack. I'll cop out here and use a HTGR/ReC turbine w/ NH3/turbine generator setup and keep it fueled with a mining laser with 6 black laser foci which brings up *tons* of coal and pitchblende. I was able to fit that setup in 2 chunks easily and the three stacked levels consumed 20 blocks of height. I wasn't trying to absolutely flatten and cram things but I build densely naturally so let's say that is maximum density there. I can stack 12 such setups in 2 chunks all the way down to bedrock each of which puts out 1.95GW. So 6 per chunk = 1.95GW * 6 = 11.7GW + (2^23 RF/t)(520 Wt/RF) = 16.06GW/chunk.

We can build on 3.75 million chunks x and z so (3.75e6)^2 * 16.06GW = 2.25e14GW = 2.25e23W. So filling the overworld with HTGRs and an ultimate solar panel roof gets us to 2.25e23W. Someone who has built out a full blown fusion reactor will need to make a similar calculation; I suspect it will yield a dramatically larger value.

Yeah, that's why I suggested we use earth as our model of a planet.

 

[zemerick]

What about the energy produced/consumed when using Equivalent Exchange EMC?

Basically impossible to do. EE is an entirely magic based mod. Our laws, and thus our formulas for energy consumed/produced, don't apply.

For example, it centers around the concept of matter and energy being equivalent, and exchangeable. Sounds good so far, surely we can just apply a little E=MC^2, right? Ok, EE tells us that 4 ingots of iron is identical to 1 ingot of gold. The real world however tells us that it's more like 2 to 1. Then we get Gold to diamond. Gold by volume in our world contains FAR more energy than diamond ( which is made of carbon ), but in EE it's the other way around. ( Note that each ingot of gold/diamond is 1/9 of a cubic meter. Hence the by volume. ) It goes on like this.

Then there's the energy collectors. They are able to take a 1 square meter solar panel, that produces immense quantities of matter. Stick some stone in a tier 3 collector, and watch it produce cubic meters of matter per second. This is an insane amount of energy that is far far beyond the amount of energy obtained in 1 square meter.

So, depending on what part of EE you use to make a calculation, you can come up with a huge range of possible energy numbers. There's no simple "This is how much energy is produced" like the other mods being discussed.

It seems every one is focused on the equation rather then the written criteria. Unless you are assuming/pretending a minecraft world is earth. Level one requires you to use ALL of your worlds energy nessesitateing the need to then harness the sun.
To do this you must calculate the maximum optimal potential energy that could be harvested/ harnessed from earth. Only then can you start calculating whether you have reached level one.

In a minecraft world you would have to account for every block of coal every burnable tree essentially anything that can be turned In to a form of energy.
Then you'd have to consume it.
Seeing though an MC world is essentially limited to your hardrive space, effectively being nearly limitless. The fact that some mods power is conceptually limitless this makes reaching lvl 1 impossible.

So what youd need to do is fill your entire drive with mc world. Derive the size of that world and figure out it's energy density by averaging out a chunks energy potential. Then that becomes your goalpost.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

Actually, it's not "All of your worlds energy", it's the equivalent of all of A worlds energy. No civilization would use all of a worlds energy. It would be far too inefficient, and they would have long since passed the point of using certain energy sources. Instead, you will spread out to many worlds, and at some point reach an energy production that is equivalent to about 1 entire worlds energy output.

It's not precise, but the scale is many orders of magnitude for steps. It's a rough guide and not meant to be an exact number.

Energy in a chunk eh. Okay sounds fun to me. Solar expansion's ultimate solar panel puts out 2^15 RF/t so we'll naturally put a roof of those up at build limit. So we are already up to 2^15*2^4*2^4 = 2^23 RF/t. Next we can't do much better than ReC fusion reactors all the way down to bedrock but it is going to be a bit difficult to work out how many we can stack. I'll cop out here and use a HTGR/ReC turbine w/ NH3/turbine generator setup and keep it fueled with a mining laser with 6 black laser foci which brings up *tons* of coal and pitchblende. I was able to fit that setup in 2 chunks easily and the three stacked levels consumed 20 blocks of height. I wasn't trying to absolutely flatten and cram things but I build densely naturally so let's say that is maximum density there. I can stack 12 such setups in 2 chunks all the way down to bedrock each of which puts out 1.95GW. So 6 per chunk = 1.95GW * 6 = 11.7GW + (2^23 RF/t)(520 Wt/RF) = 16.06GW/chunk.

We can build on 3.75 million chunks x and z so (3.75e6)^2 * 16.06GW = 2.25e14GW = 2.25e23W. So filling the overworld with HTGRs and an ultimate solar panel roof gets us to 2.25e23W. Someone who has built out a full blown fusion reactor will need to make a similar calculation; I suspect it will yield a dramatically larger value.

The answer for the fusion reactors is going to depend very heavily on how cheaty they can go. The standard reactor fits in about 9 chunks. That's somewhere around about 23GW per chunk. You might be able to fit 2 or 3 of those high though, but the turbines and generators will be very hard to find an ideal fit in that volume. So, it's pretty much anywhere from 23-100 GW per chunk.

However, I have made designs that are more compact and more energy efficient. The absolute max would simply be in v6 or earlier, you could make walls of injectors pointed at each other and this was more efficient than the full reactor build. You could fit somewhere around 50 of those high, and about 3 per level, so 150ish per power generation chunk. Then comes the turbines and generators. You need somewhere around about 17 per 4 injectors, and they take up a lot of room. ( The preheaters you can power about 50 injectors for each one, so their size is relatively minimal. ) So, for each power generation chunk, you need somewhere around 600-700 turbines and generators. Each turbine+generator takes about a chunk of area, and you could stack about 20 high. ( If you got really creative, you could probably fit more like 30 in a chunk of volume, but lets just go with 20. ) So, for each chunk of power gen, you need about 35 chunks of TnGs, for 36 chunks in total with a power output of around 7500GW, or a little over 200GW per chunk. ( Note: I was rounding all over the place due to the inaccuracies of it all. Hence not spelling out the math. )

So, fusion reactors you could anywhere from about 1.5x to 13x the power of your HTGR setup, depending on how cheaty and efficient you are, for a total of ( using your numbers ) around 3x10^24W. This gets us around about the 1.8 range. Similar to my previous numbers for my mega reactor of around 1.9.

Due to the shapes of it all, even getting very efficient, you could still fit the deuterium, tritium, and water production in there quite easily. If you really cranked up the multiplications, you could probably even squeeze the lube production into the gaps as well. ( The tokamak, turbines and generators all have a very odd shape, so it would be hard not to have a lot of empty space in there somewhere. )

 

[Azzanine]

Actually, it's not "All of your worlds energy", it's the equivalent of all of A worlds energy. No civilization would use all of a worlds energy. It would be far too inefficient, and they would have long since passed the point of using certain energy sources. Instead, you will spread out to many worlds, and at some point reach an energy production that is equivalent to about 1 entire worlds energy output.

It's not precise, but the scale is many orders of magnitude for steps. It's a rough guide and not meant to be an exact number.

From what I read it was about reaching the max energy limit of a planet. Meaning all energy sources tapped and renewables harnessed to their maximum, nessesitateing the need to fully harness the sun to keep the civilization afloat and growing.
So to reach level 1 you have to determine how much energy we can generate here and that would be the marker.


Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk