How high up the Kardashev scale can you realistically get in MC?

[YX33A]

Is this a question of individuals or as a whole? Like, can YX33A pass K1 or can anyone pass K1?
If as a whole, K5 is possible. Consumption of such power and storage aside, one could "easily" generate such power.

Your back of the envelope equation would indicate this @malicious_bloke and if extended, one could calculate how many it would take to reach K2, then K3, K4, and K5.
If one wanted to say just having power generation on such as scale isn't enough, well, a few RF Tools mining dimensions could justify such power generation, a few von neuman CC or OC robots would justify such resource intake, and a few ElC Aurora Batteries may store enough power to fuel those von neuman systems.

 

[malicious_bloke]

I may need an

Is this a question of individuals or as a whole? Like, can YX33A pass K1 or can anyone pass K1?
If as a whole, K5 is possible. Consumption of such power and storage aside, one could "easily" generate such power.

Your back of the envelope equation would indicate this @malicious_bloke and if extended, one could calculate how many it would take to reach K2, then K3, K4, and K5.
If one wanted to say just having power generation on such as scale isn't enough, well, a few RF Tools mining dimensions could justify such power generation, a few von neuman CC or OC robots would justify such resource intake, and a few ElC Aurora Batteries may store enough power to fuel those von neuman systems.

Um, K2 is 14 orders of magnitude higher than K1.

So you're talking 3400000000000000 ReC fusion reactors for level 2.

That is to say, if everyone who bought a legit copy of MC got into modded MC and they all showed the same dedication to the cause we could crack K-2 if we only built 48 million each

 

[Pyure]

Imma get started now. Can someone send me some iron?

 

[Azzanine]

Steve may be one, but Colin is LEGION.

By my back of envelope calculation, 34 ReC fusion reactors would just about tip you into Kardashev level 1 territory.

Of course, to build that many you would need a savage amount of autocrafting (or literally no life) and automated resource gathering. You could destroy entire dimensions making it happen.

THIS MUST BE DONE, FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

You wouldn't actually need to destroy worlds if you could youd reach level one. As you'd be useing all of your planets resources.

Actually considering that minecraft is infinite, getting to level one would be impossible or at least different for each hard drive once you fill every spare bit up with world.
This scale seems to be more about requirement more then production. Of course meeting this requirement implies production.


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[ShneekeyTheLost]

Actually... I think I have a way to do it, although it requires MFR as well.

MFR Laser Drills can supply copious quantites of resources for copious quantities of power. So you have your power consumption and your resource generation all in one step. From there, it's simply a matter of scale, and probably a Von Neumann/Grey Ooze CC build to get it done in any reasonable period of time. I don't know if any computer available on the civilian market would be able to handle the game long enough to accomplish K1... but it would be about the closest possible chance.

The thing about K2 is that it is inherently self-defeating. You need the resources and production/energy of a K2 civilization to build a Dyson Sphere to achieve it.

 

[ScottulusMaximus]

I may need an


Um, K2 is 14 orders of magnitude higher than K1.

So you're talking 3400000000000000 ReC fusion reactors for level 2.

That is to say, if everyone who bought a legit copy of MC got into modded MC and they all showed the same dedication to the cause we could crack K-2 if we only built 48 million each

Add in all the pirated versions out there and we would each have to build 2 and Reika's download counter would explode...

Great thread, I'm at a measly -0.02 with 18 max Big Reactor Turbines... Could probably get to 0 if I added in my other power gen tho, will do the maths and report back

 

[DanteDarkstar]

A few energy setups just for fun and reference. All use Reika's equivalence between RF/t and Watts (1 RF/tick = 520 Watt, source: recent post by Reika here http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/thr...he-use-of-big-reactors-and-tesseracts.109476/ ).

1. GregTech fusion reactor (and Plasma Generators to convert plasma to EU): ~4.6e+5 EU/tick = 770 MW = 0.289 Kardashev

2. RotaryCraft fusion reactor: according to Reika around 250GW max (= 4.8e+8 RF/t max) = 0.540 Kardashev

3. A million maximum size high pressure Railcraft boilers (at max. temperature) = 36*20*1e+6 steam/tick = 1.44e+9 RF/tick = 749 GW = 0.587 Kardashev

4. IC2 solar panels covering ALL accessible Overworld (-30 000 000 to +30 000 000 on X,Y): 6e+7 * 6e+7 * 1EU/t * 0.5 (night) = 7.2e+15 RF/t = 3.74e+18 W = 1.257 Kardashev

5. GregTech Plasma Generator (2048 EU/t) with infinite plasma supply as EVERY BLOCK of the Overworld: ~1.89e+21 EU/t = 3.9e+24 W = 1.859 Kardashev

Since I don't know power density of RotaryCraft fusion reactor setup, I can't tell if they can outperform 5. Anyway, it's impossible to reach 2 in Minecraft, as any server would crash and burn long before being able to chunkload WHOLE world to get to 1.859.

If we take Mystcraft, it may be possible to pass 2 Kardashev if over 30 dimensions are filled with Plasma Generators and somehow automagically fed plasma (which would be very tricky), or if we build up 40 or so dimensions with generators and plasma transferring tesseracts, all fed from creative tanks providing infinite plasma.

Given that, I'm not sure if ALL players with ALL their worlds added up managed to pass 1. Don't be discouraged though. Humans in reality didn't pass 1 either yet. Having positive Kardashev rating itself is an achievement.

 

[Colensocon1]

Has anyone noticed basically the only viable way to get to even the first level is to use Reika's insane reactor

 

[Type1Ninja]

Has anyone noticed basically the only viable way to get to even the first level is to use Reika's insane reactor

That's because mods are (in general) geared toward "you are a single player, building one base, for yoruself." That means that up-front costs are cheaper than is realistic, but it also means that actual energy production is smaller scale than you would get in real life (I mean, seriously, even real-life factories don't need multiple nuclear reactors per building. Reika's mods are geared towards realism, which means much larger cost AND energy production, meaning that you are more or less required to automate everything. That leads into the whole Kardashev scale thing - high production and consumption.

 

[RavynousHunter]

This sounds like a mod in the making. Geared for SMP, of course, since its talking about entire civilizations. You start out working with crap power like coal and petrol, working your way up to tapping the power of the atom, eventually learning to create and contain fusion plasma. After that, you begin breaking into Kardashev 1 territory: anti-matter reactors, making massive particle accelerators (talking LHC scale, here) to unlock the ability to form microsingularities and tap them for power. Kardashev 2 would be things like star taps (in the form of Dyson spheres) and singularity generators. Kardashev 3, you'd end up harvesting the power of active galactic nuclei and other super-massive black holes. Eventually, you'd hit a point where you can't go any further until you learn to use your immense power to break through to nascent universes and harvest the energy behind the births of entire universes, hitting Kardashev 4 territory and effective godhood. At that point, you'd have effectively limitless power, own an empire that spans whole, alternate realities and OH MY GOD THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER.

 

[zemerick]

Bit of a problem. "Level 1 - The energy resources of an entire planet or ~4x10^12 Watts". Those 2 are nowhere even remotely close to each other. Humans already produce 17.7 TW, but we are still a long ways from level 1, or from all of the energy sources of our planet. ( The formula says K1 would be 10^16W btw. )

Next, I think a lot of people are forgetting to convert their GW and such to W. 1GW is a fair bit greater than 1,000,000,000W. ( It's actually 1,073,741,824W. I actually forgot to do this as I started writing this reply. It's not huge, but it'll move you on the scale a bit. )

Using the formula, my v6 ReC Mega Fusion Reactor would come out to around 0.63 to 0.66, not too shabby. I don't know the precise output, but it would be somewhere in the 1-4 trillion W range. This was the max size possible for a ReC fusion reactor, and due to lag problems was never fully built out ( only 1 side had injectors ) and no power generation equipment built to test it. ( My quad reactor was already rough enough at something like 40 HPTs. ) This is also without ammonia. So, if I could get it working in v8, plus some tweaking and fix the lag, 4 trillion W would go from outside probability, to likely.

A world covered completely in this would be somewhere in the 1.9 range. Not enough to crack 2, but pretty good. ( It can easily be built in an area 100x100 for the record. )

 

[ChemE]

Bit of a problem. "Level 1 - The energy resources of an entire planet or ~4x10^12 Watts". Those 2 are nowhere even remotely close to each other. Humans already produce 17.7 TW, but we are still a long ways from level 1, or from all of the energy sources of our planet. ( The formula says K1 would be 10^16W btw. )

Next, I think a lot of people are forgetting to convert their GW and such to W. 1GW is a fair bit greater than 1,000,000,000W. ( It's actually 1,073,741,824W. I actually forgot to do this as I started writing this reply. It's not huge, but it'll move you on the scale a bit. )

Using the formula, my v6 ReC Mega Fusion Reactor would come out to around 0.63 to 0.66, not too shabby. I don't know the precise output, but it would be somewhere in the 1-4 trillion W range. This was the max size possible for a ReC fusion reactor, and due to lag problems was never fully built out ( only 1 side had injectors ) and no power generation equipment built to test it. ( My quad reactor was already rough enough at something like 40 HPTs. ) This is also without ammonia. So, if I could get it working in v8, plus some tweaking and fix the lag, 4 trillion W would go from outside probability, to likely.

A world covered completely in this would be somewhere in the 1.9 range. Not enough to crack 2, but pretty good. ( It can easily be built in an area 100x100 for the record. )

The dynamometer in this picture isn't displaying rotational speed very precisely but are you certain that this is how RoC dynos make their calculation?

29,808N * 65,000rad/s = 1,937,520,000W
29,808N * 65,499rad/s = 1,952,394,192W
29,808N * 65,999rad/s = 1,967,298,192W

EDIT (thanks to malicious_bloke): 29,808N * 65,536rad/s = 1,953,497,088W

1,073,741,824W * 1.953 = 2,097,017,782W

This would all seem to imply that the dynamometer is converting 1,000,000,000W to a GW rather than 1,073,741,824W as you state.

 

[malicious_bloke]

Bear in mind 65krad/s would actually be 65536 rad/s

 

[ChemE]

In looking closely at the dynamometer read out, "65,536rad/s" takes up the same amount of space as "__65 krad/s"; both 11 characters. Too bad Reika didn't code them to show the most precision possible.

 

[zemerick]

...This would all seem to imply that the dynamometer is converting 1,000,000,000W to a GW rather than 1,073,741,824W as you state.

Yea, that's right. Not sure why I was thinking it did.

 

[ChemE]

Yea, that's right. Not sure why I was thinking it did.

Actually I assumed you were right because most everything else in RoC is power of 2 and bitshifting so it made sense to me. Working through it was a good exercise though.

 

[zemerick]

Actually I assumed you were right because most everything else in RoC is power of 2 and bitshifting so it made sense to me. Working through it was a good exercise though.

Well, you know what they say when you assume...and that goes doubly for anything I say

I may know a lot about quite a few things, but I'm always getting the details mixed up.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

What about the energy produced/consumed when using Equivalent Exchange EMC?

 

[the_j485]

What about the energy produced/consumed when using Equivalent Exchange EMC?

That's somewhat hard to measure, as the actually energy value obtained via E=mc^2 will be completely different to something's EMC, and we also have no idea of the mass of many items. I suppose you could do it for a single thing like cobblestone, put that in a flower power, work out its likely mass, etc, but again, there's probably a way to convert with EMC to something of a higher actual mass.

 

[Azzanine]

It seems every one is focused on the equation rather then the written criteria. Unless you are assuming/pretending a minecraft world is earth. Level one requires you to use ALL of your worlds energy nessesitateing the need to then harness the sun.
To do this you must calculate the maximum optimal potential energy that could be harvested/ harnessed from earth. Only then can you start calculating whether you have reached level one.

In a minecraft world you would have to account for every block of coal every burnable tree essentially anything that can be turned In to a form of energy.
Then you'd have to consume it.
Seeing though an MC world is essentially limited to your hardrive space, effectively being nearly limitless. The fact that some mods power is conceptually limitless this makes reaching lvl 1 impossible.

So what youd need to do is fill your entire drive with mc world. Derive the size of that world and figure out it's energy density by averaging out a chunks energy potential. Then that becomes your goalpost.

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