How high up the Kardashev scale can you realistically get in MC?

[malicious_bloke]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

I'm just wondering. I mean if you were to spam hundreds of the most potent generators or reactors in the same world, how high could you rag it?

For reference, Carl Sagan's suggested formula looks like this:

(where K is your Kardashev number and P is your power level in Watts)

For values given in watts, you can either use MJ (minecraft joules) as a starting point.

1 joule = 1 Watt second (W.s), so 1 Watt derived from MJ would be 1J divided by the time taken to produce it in s (or ticks if you want to be immersive).

Or you could use the Rotarycraft definition, where 1W = 520RF.

There's also arguments to be made about our ability to exploit multiple universes via portals.

Make your cases below:

 

[Pyure]

0.x, mostly constrained by the fact there's no boundaries of a "planet" to measure. Doesn't change with galacticraft. Debatable with ReC given its fusion reactors, which is considered by many a gateway into L1 anyway.

Did Kardashev come up in your facebook today too?

 

[malicious_bloke]

0.x, mostly constrained by the fact there's no boundaries of a "planet" to measure. Doesn't change with galacticraft. Debatable with ReC given its fusion reactors, which is considered by many a gateway into L1 anyway.

Did Kardashev come up in your facebook today too?

Well, I gave the power level definitions as a loophole to this.

It's like saying that you can't ever reach K level 2 until you can build a dyson sphere and entirely enclose a star, but having the resource base, industry and tech to be able to build something so gigantic would kind of imply you're far beyond that.

PS Malicious does not facebook

 

[Pyure]

PS Malicious does not facebook

The timing was just weird, cuz I had to (re) wikipedia the kardashev scale today when it popped up.

I'd already wiki'd it years ago but I'd forgotten the specifics.

 

[Lethosos]

I'm partially fond of the Matrioska Sphere instead, as you don't have to go balls-out stripmine several planets to make it.

But the energy level still requires us to reach maximum efficiency in our power generation such as solar cells.

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[ChemE]

I just completed my turbine generator multiblock yesterday and hooked it up to a lp turbine running water so I'm making 1,800,00 RF/t = 936,000,000 watts which puts me at 0.3.

 

[Pyure]

I just completed my turbine generator multiblock yesterday and hooked it up to a lp turbine running water so I'm making 1,800,00 RF/t = 936,000,000 watts which puts me at 0.3.

Sadly I think you're a few orders of magnitude off.

 

[ChemE]

Sadly I think you're a few orders of magnitude off.

How so? 936,000,000 watts = 10^8.97. (8.97-6)/10 = 0.267

 

[Pyure]

How so? 936,000,000 watts = 10^8.97. (8.97-6)/10 = 0.267

Level 1 is to the power of 12, not 10.

 

[ChemE]

Level 1 is to the power of 12, not 10.

Now I'm really confused then. I said I was at level 0.3 not 1.

 

[Pyure]

Well, my math just isn't strong enough to back this up, so I'll ask your clarification on this one.
Level 1 is 4*10^12 = 4,000,000,000,000
Level 1 * 0.3 = 1,200,000,000,000
You're at 960,000,000

Which is, what, 4 orders of magnitude off?

For the record, I'm not saying you're wrong. And having chatted with you in the past, I know you're a sharp cookie, so I'm requesting clarity.

 

[Type1Ninja]

I know you're a sharp cookie

The avatar makes it obvious.
Although "smart and evil" might be better.

 

[ChemE]

Well, my math just isn't strong enough to back this up, so I'll ask your clarification on this one.
Level 1 is 4*10^12 = 4,000,000,000,000
Level 1 * 0.3 = 1,200,000,000,000
You're at 960,000,000

Which is, what, 4 orders of magnitude off?

For the record, I'm not saying you're wrong. And having chatted with you in the past, I know you're a sharp cookie, so I'm requesting clarity.

Oh gotcha! It is a log (base 10) scale so you can't multiply level 1 by 0.3 and get 1.2x10^12. You just have to work the equation to get level from your power but it is not linear at all it is log and the -6 is designed to shift the whole thing such that 10^6 watts is the zero point.

1 watt = -0.6
10 watts = -0.5
100 watts = -0.4
...
10^6 watts = 0
10^7 watts = 0.1
10^8 watts = 0.2
10^9 watts = 0.3 (where I'm at)
10^10 watts = 0.4
...
10^16 watts = 1.0

Really it is just stating how many tens of zeroes beyond a megawatt can you produce. I'm at 3 orders of magnitude beyond a megawatt but 7 orders of magnitude shy of Sagan's level 1 society. And for the record I don't think I can spam enough fusion reactors to get to level 1.

 

[Azzanine]

Reading up on this Kardashev scale thing it also mentions that this includes consumption of that produced energy. Even if you output the energy to meet that of our sun you'd need to use that energy too to be considered at that level. So to replicate that in minecraft you would need to use all this energy too.

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[Pyure]

Oh gotcha! It is a log (base 10) scale so you can't multiply level 1 by 0.3 and get 1.2x10^12. You just have to work the equation to get level from your power but it is not linear at all it is log and the -6 is designed to shift the whole thing such that 10^6 watts is the zero point.

I'm a bit confused, since saying 0.3 of something is 30% of something, and is implied to be a decimal scale. If anything it seems like its a bit misleading to say 0.3 of a base-10 number when comparing.

btw, back when I did game design, logarithms were just about the most useful thing in the universe for designing reduced rates of returns for things like skills-growth in RPGs and such

 

[ChemE]

I'm a bit confused, since saying 0.3 of something is 30% of something, and is implied to be a decimal scale. If anything it seems like its a bit misleading to say 0.3 of a base-10 number when comparing.

btw, back when I did game design, logarithms were just about the most useful thing in the universe for designing reduced rates of returns for things like skills-growth in RPGs and such

We are drifting perhaps too far afield now but it comes down to units. Kardashev scale is expressed in units of level which happen to be logarithmic rather than linear. So Kardashev level 2 implies a power consumption not twice level 1 (that would be linear) but 10^10 times as much. The same is true of decibels. 50 decibels isn't twice the sound intensity of 25 decibels because it too is not a linear scale. With decibels increasing the decibel level by 3dB is actually a doubling of the sound intensity level. It isn't misleading to say Kardashev level 0.3 that is just the way the scale works.

If you read the wiki article more closely you'll see that 1970's earth was around a 0.7 level in terms of consumption but it is still orders of magnitude less than the level I threshold.

 

[Pyure]

We are drifting perhaps too far afield now but it comes down to units. Kardashev scale is expressed in units of level which happen to be logarithmic rather than linear.

I can buy into that. Just like 6*9 legitimately equals 42, in base-13

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I think the only way to successfully achieve Level 1 is to use Computercraft and autonomously created and programmed turtles in a Grey Ooze scenario. Steve's problem is that he is just one individual. The Kardashev Scale is designed to measure civilizations, not individuals. It is just not possible to put enough hours into a game to achieve those levels, it would require hundreds, if not thousands, of man-hours to do so.

Therefore, the only solution is to set up a Computercraft turtle factory and have an ever expanding turtle civilization strip mine the world for you AND building all the components for you until you have sufficient energy output AND consumption.

The only limit becomes the computational power of your actual tower, because trying to run a game with an ever expanding number of turtles requires an ever expanding amount of resources that Minecraft requires until it finally gives up. I don't know if you will hit Level 1 before your computer gives up, but it's at least one theoretical way.

 

[malicious_bloke]

I think the only way to successfully achieve Level 1 is to use Computercraft and autonomously created and programmed turtles in a Grey Ooze scenario. Steve's problem is that he is just one individual. The Kardashev Scale is designed to measure civilizations, not individuals. It is just not possible to put enough hours into a game to achieve those levels, it would require hundreds, if not thousands, of man-hours to do so.

Therefore, the only solution is to set up a Computercraft turtle factory and have an ever expanding turtle civilization strip mine the world for you AND building all the components for you until you have sufficient energy output AND consumption.

The only limit becomes the computational power of your actual tower, because trying to run a game with an ever expanding number of turtles requires an ever expanding amount of resources that Minecraft requires until it finally gives up. I don't know if you will hit Level 1 before your computer gives up, but it's at least one theoretical way.

Steve may be one, but Colin is LEGION.

By my back of envelope calculation, 34 ReC fusion reactors would just about tip you into Kardashev level 1 territory.

Of course, to build that many you would need a savage amount of autocrafting (or literally no life) and automated resource gathering. You could destroy entire dimensions making it happen.

THIS MUST BE DONE, FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

 

[ChemE]

Steve may be one, but Colin is LEGION.

By my back of envelope calculation, 34 ReC fusion reactors would just about tip you into Kardashev level 1 territory.

Of course, to build that many you would need a savage amount of autocrafting (or literally no life) and automated resource gathering. You could destroy entire dimensions making it happen.

THIS MUST BE DONE, FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

I would follow this LP closely and with interest. Please include Opis timings at various milestones so we know how close your computer is to tapping out.