How can I figure out what is sucking the power out of my Redstone Energy Cell?
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Zorn, you seem to forget that TE development was all about taking the common tasks that players perform, and redesigning the mechanics of them to be server friendly. That was it's design goal and that is what has been achieved. You can see that in the speed of transporting liquids, the auto-ejecting from machines (not needing wooden pipes, engines, pipe networks between machines), cobble gen, water generation, etc.
Yes, a AA is slightly cheaper to build then a pump and redstone engines, but the TE piping is more expensive then what BC offers. No doubt power was ignored as pumps run just fine off redstone engines, which is a minuscule amount of power.
The whole concept of ensuring water doesn't run out is pointless in minecraft, as water is infinite. You don't run a pipe line to the nearest lake/river/ocean, just build a infinite system on site designed to make use of whatever mods mechanic you are using.
All mods have their pros and cons, it's just sad when people get religiously fixated on a mod and can't see beyond their fixation. Yes, TE steps on the toes of some "established concepts", but it has to to achieve it's goals.
Yes, a AA is slightly cheaper to build then a pump and redstone engines, but the TE piping is more expensive then what BC offers. No doubt power was ignored as pumps run just fine off redstone engines, which is a minuscule amount of power.
The whole concept of ensuring water doesn't run out is pointless in minecraft, as water is infinite. You don't run a pipe line to the nearest lake/river/ocean, just build a infinite system on site designed to make use of whatever mods mechanic you are using.
All mods have their pros and cons, it's just sad when people get religiously fixated on a mod and can't see beyond their fixation. Yes, TE steps on the toes of some "established concepts", but it has to to achieve it's goals.
I'm also curious. I also ender if part of the disconnect between players is due to some playing ssp and others smp, and how much time they spend on the game. One guy was talking about the slow rate of making steel but for me, I use a chunk loader and run the furnace overnight, so it's not an issue to me. I'd imagine if I was in ssp I'd be annoyed that my game time was spent making steel or fighting with a BC pump to get water to combustion engines.[DOUBLEPOST=1380663992][/DOUBLEPOST]
All very good points. It's easy to get polarized, I might be too
Indeed. The SSP vs SMP makes a massive difference. I've always played SSP, but now have a server, and have noticed that my gameplay is quite slow compared to others, as I've gotten used to some things taking time. I've never bothered before with steel from railcraft, but on the server, I've gone straight to steel tanks as I know I can leave the resources to generate and be ready for me the following day. In a similar vein, when I played tekkit, I built 7 quarries and had them all running at once to get resources I needed, because my time was limited. On a server, one max quarry at a time is enough.
Likewise on the bee breeding side. I'm used to it being slow, from only having 2-3 hours a day max available. But being chunkloaded 24/7, those bees are a massive source of resources which you just don't see under SSP.
It's one of the challenges modders have, to balance gameplay time. It's different for everyone.
Likewise on the bee breeding side. I'm used to it being slow, from only having 2-3 hours a day max available. But being chunkloaded 24/7, those bees are a massive source of resources which you just don't see under SSP.
It's one of the challenges modders have, to balance gameplay time. It's different for everyone.
zorn,
What you say about TE is not 100% incorrect. Sure, KL and team put some sugar on top of TE, but IMHO, it wasn't necessary. TE is one of the greatest mods in modded MC even without the sugar on top.
What most people like about TE is the server friendliness and things working the way we *expect* them to work, from the MJ-storing RECs, to the energy conduits, to the liquiducts, to the configurable faces that auto-eject, to the tabs on the machine's GUI that tell you what's up and how a redstone signal is interpreted. If you can figure this stuff out, chances are you've already been-there-done-that the old way and are tired of it.
Most players don't think grinding and tedium are fun nor do they find babysitting machines is fun. Some do, yes, but they aren't in the majority. Personally, I like to build stuff, check on it from time to time, but otherwise move on to the next project, like TC, MystCraft, Bees, a huge rail network, etc.,.
What you say about TE is not 100% incorrect. Sure, KL and team put some sugar on top of TE, but IMHO, it wasn't necessary. TE is one of the greatest mods in modded MC even without the sugar on top.
What most people like about TE is the server friendliness and things working the way we *expect* them to work, from the MJ-storing RECs, to the energy conduits, to the liquiducts, to the configurable faces that auto-eject, to the tabs on the machine's GUI that tell you what's up and how a redstone signal is interpreted. If you can figure this stuff out, chances are you've already been-there-done-that the old way and are tired of it.
Most players don't think grinding and tedium are fun nor do they find babysitting machines is fun. Some do, yes, but they aren't in the majority. Personally, I like to build stuff, check on it from time to time, but otherwise move on to the next project, like TC, MystCraft, Bees, a huge rail network, etc.,.
I'm pretty disappointed in DW20's latest FC2 season. He's using Admin Anchors because Chickenbones' chunkloaders are not working. But, why not use World Anchors? Sure, they have a cost. But the logic is this: Chickenbones introduced a free Chunkloader. These are no longer available, therefore I will cheat in a free chunkloader. A race to the bottom, won by Chickenbones, aided by Direwolf20 making it look legitimate.
He's supposed to be testing the mods, isn't he? And it only takes 10 minutes to get a stack of pearls that would last more than a week.
Chunkloaders are a hack/workaround to a minecraft server design decision to keep performance acceptable. Problem is, Minecraft server doesn't know which chunks you want to keep loaded and running. Hence, you have to configure/tell it which chunks you want to keep loaded.
However, if you keep too many chunks loaded, you're fighting server performance issues. World Anchors' Ender Pearl cost is less to 'balance' the cost/benefit ratio, but is more of a crude (and mostly effective) attempt to prevent chunk-loaded areas from causing server crashes. The typical case is someone's input system filling up and stuff spilling on the floor while they are logged out. World Anchors are designed to limit this since they require Ender Pearls as 'fuel'. Run out of fuel, and the chunk unloads. Yet, it's not a foolproof system, either. As PierceSG pointed out, you can workaround that with an Enderman farm (and put a World Anchor in your Enderman farm).
On a tightly disciplined server like DW20's Forge2 server, one typically doesn't have to worry about players not dealing with overflow, logging out for a long time, and then having their loaded chunks cause server issues.
The sky is not falling and this is not a good example of a race to the bottom. A better example would be EE2/EE3 or DartCraft.
However, if you keep too many chunks loaded, you're fighting server performance issues. World Anchors' Ender Pearl cost is less to 'balance' the cost/benefit ratio, but is more of a crude (and mostly effective) attempt to prevent chunk-loaded areas from causing server crashes. The typical case is someone's input system filling up and stuff spilling on the floor while they are logged out. World Anchors are designed to limit this since they require Ender Pearls as 'fuel'. Run out of fuel, and the chunk unloads. Yet, it's not a foolproof system, either. As PierceSG pointed out, you can workaround that with an Enderman farm (and put a World Anchor in your Enderman farm).
On a tightly disciplined server like DW20's Forge2 server, one typically doesn't have to worry about players not dealing with overflow, logging out for a long time, and then having their loaded chunks cause server issues.
The sky is not falling and this is not a good example of a race to the bottom. A better example would be EE2/EE3 or DartCraft.
DartCraft, yes. It adds things that are already in the game, but cheaper (and also some new stuff though). EE2/EE3? What do they add that is cheaper than other mods? EE2 was an entirely new and innovative mechanic, and directly led to the existence of FTB so I have a hard time accepting that it was a bad thing in the modding scene. Unless there was some other energy exchange mod that I never heard of that EE undercut.
Perhaps best/worst example of EE3 is Ender Pearls. 4 iron + Minium Stone and the minium lasts almost forever and is super-cheap to replace. So, that makes 4 Iron == 1 Ender Pearl.
That...is broken.
The diamond recipe is pretty bad, too.
True, but not relevant to cross-mod balance comparisons. There is no other mod that gives you 1 Ender Pearl for 64 Iron.
Don't need cross-mod to compare or say something is OP. Compare against vanilla. There is no other mechanic in the game for getting 'end game' materials like Ender Pearls and diamonds (in large/huge/unlimited quantities) that's that easy.
Specifically, 4 iron for an Ender Pearl trivializes Tesseracts, which in turn makes quarries that much more OP. As soon as someone has enough power for a quarry, they EE3 up 11 diamonds for the quarry using gold, EE3 up some Ender Pearls, make a pair each of Item and Energy Tesseracts, and plop down a 64x64 quarry somewhere with a chunk loader in one's base (also made trivial with EE3), and call it done.
Boom. End-game in 1 day (overnight). Game. Set. Match.
Actually, it's possible to get unlimited enderpearls with just cobble stone, stone tools and a lot of time with vanilla. There's a way of building a mob farm in the overworld that you can get endermen to come to you, while you hide in a safe room whacking them with your stone sword.
But yes, EE3 does trivalise things. That's why I use the Energy Manipulator mod with custom recipes for the blocks, and custom exchange values. It still does trivalise things a bit, but you have to put much more effort into it.
Also note that the ender pearl balance is thrown out of the window anyway once The End is available to you (especially on a server). Easy to farm those ender pearls then, especially if someone else has done the work of getting rid of the dragon.
But yes, EE3 does trivalise things. That's why I use the Energy Manipulator mod with custom recipes for the blocks, and custom exchange values. It still does trivalise things a bit, but you have to put much more effort into it.
Also note that the ender pearl balance is thrown out of the window anyway once The End is available to you (especially on a server). Easy to farm those ender pearls then, especially if someone else has done the work of getting rid of the dragon.
I never understood why he removed the requirement to have at least one of an item before you could exchange for it. But, having enough enderpearls for a tesseract isn't "end-game". You can get pearls in the overworld, a 2-high roof on a hill in a desert will get you a good few pearls in a single night's hunting, you can get enough diamonds for a quarry in a couple of Minecraft days, and you need more gold than diamonds for a quarry. And that quarry is going to be painfully slow. This "end-game" you describe is pretty tedious, especially as you wasted all that gold that you'll need to make your MAC.
Yes, but the techniques you guys are describing are tedious, require mob farming, require a lot of time, and/or require a mature server. Also, exploiting Enderman's inability to bend over (stoop) while you hack at their midsection/feet is perhaps not the best example of balanced gameplay, either. And, that strategy is not entirely risk-free. A concerted attack by regular mobs like a silent creeper or a couple of skeletons could spell your doom. So, there is at least some risk involved.
As for quarry power, just dig down to layer 11 and explore horizontal for lava or setup a pump + Liquid Tesseract in the nether. I'm not sure what your standards are, but a *fully powered* 64x64 quarry running overnight is not painfully slow. You'll have nearly a stack of diamonds and several stacks of obsidian, redstone, lapis, metals, etc.,.
As for quarry power, just dig down to layer 11 and explore horizontal for lava or setup a pump + Liquid Tesseract in the nether. I'm not sure what your standards are, but a *fully powered* 64x64 quarry running overnight is not painfully slow. You'll have nearly a stack of diamonds and several stacks of obsidian, redstone, lapis, metals, etc.,.
Perhaps if getting a quarry up and running is your idea of end game it's your definition of end game that needs reviewed and not the definition of balance?
Especially when the other guy who spent all his gold and diamonds on armour and a sword comes along and kills him and takes all his stuff.
I over-simplified and exaggerated a bit, yes. Just getting 1 quarry up and running is not end-game in itself, correct.
Having the output from 1 or more 64x64 fully-powered quarry/quarries that has/have run overnight is the *beginning* of the end game. You can safely skip mid-game content and start building multiple 36HP boilers, multiple tree farms, deploy multiple 64x64 quarries, setup a decent AE system, get a good start on a full MPS suit, jump-start bees with ExtraBees machines, etc.,.
While this is all fine and dandy for a new player on a mature server where one feels pressured to "come up to speed" ASAP, it bypasses the mid-game content for many mods which ultimately results in less content in the modpack as a whole.
The EE3 ender pearl and diamond recipes, for example, make the clever "stone fort on a desert hill" ender pearl-gathering strategy look quaint, as well, as remove risk from the "skirting lava at layer 11 to search for diamonds" strategy.
The sky is not falling, no, and EE3 does not ruin the game. I am guilty of going off on a tangent and taking my point a bit too far for this thread.
Having the output from 1 or more 64x64 fully-powered quarry/quarries that has/have run overnight is the *beginning* of the end game. You can safely skip mid-game content and start building multiple 36HP boilers, multiple tree farms, deploy multiple 64x64 quarries, setup a decent AE system, get a good start on a full MPS suit, jump-start bees with ExtraBees machines, etc.,.
While this is all fine and dandy for a new player on a mature server where one feels pressured to "come up to speed" ASAP, it bypasses the mid-game content for many mods which ultimately results in less content in the modpack as a whole.
The EE3 ender pearl and diamond recipes, for example, make the clever "stone fort on a desert hill" ender pearl-gathering strategy look quaint, as well, as remove risk from the "skirting lava at layer 11 to search for diamonds" strategy.
The sky is not falling, no, and EE3 does not ruin the game. I am guilty of going off on a tangent and taking my point a bit too far for this thread.
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