Fusion Reactor insanity...

[malfunctionMC]

Watching Direwolf's mod spotlight on gregtech, decided to try giving it another go... and looked into running a fusion reactor.

the following is a mathematical breakdown of how insanely imbalanced (in a BAD sense) the fusion reactor actually is.

A single cycle of Deuterium + Tritium power generation, lasts 256 ticks (12.8 seconds) generating 1,048,576 EU.

To produce the Tritium, you centrifuge 4 Deuterium... this takes 1 Minute, and costs 6,000 EU
To produce 5 Deuterium (you need 4 to make the Tritium and 1 for the fuel), you centrifuge 20 Hydrogen Cells, this takes 5 minutes, and costs 30,000 EU
To produce 20 Hydrogen Cells, you centrifuge 30 Electrolysed Water Cells, this takes 2.5 minutes, and costs 15,000 EU
To produce 30 Electrolyzed cells, you need 450,000 EU + 37.5 minutes of time (30 Cells x 15,000 EU @ 10EU/t in Electrolyzers)

Total Cost = 501,000 EU + 46 minutes of processing time... for one cycle of fuel which, generates 1,048,576. Subtracting the 501,000 EU needed to produce a single cycle of fuel you make 547,576 EU

The Fusion reactor requires 40,000,000 EU to kick start it... so to break even, you need to generate AT LEAST this amount. 40,000,000 / 547,576 = 73.05 Cycles.

73.05 sets of fuel, takes 3,360.3 MINUTES of processing time (56 HOURS). and you haven't made a single EU!!

now... I offer this challenge to ALL of the gregtech supporters... please someone prove my math wrong, and show me a self sustaining fusion reactor setup... I really want to be wrong.

 

[sciguyryan]

They are pretty insane even if expensive initially.

Though considering you can use a mystcraft charged age and lightning rods for infinite free power...

 

[bwillb]

Yeah it's really not good... To be honest GregTech will probably be the difference between me using FTB or using Tekkit, unless a good FTB option without GregTech is presented. I don't see it as a good mod, at all. It really breaks the balance in the game far more than it fixes it.

 

[Omicron]

You can use Mystcraft for infinite anything. It's right up there with Equivalent Exchange in terms of "free stuff for no effort".

The challenge lies making it work in the overworld. And I'm honestly not sure about the fusion reactor, I'm not that far into the game yet (I tend to play hardcore worlds where I eventually die...)[DOUBLEPOST=1353101771][/DOUBLEPOST]

Yeah it's really not good... To be honest GregTech will probably be the difference between me using FTB or using Tekkit, unless a good FTB option without GregTech is presented. I don't see it as a good mod, at all. It really breaks the balance in the game far more than it fixes it.

Have you seen the "edit mod pack" button in the launcher, and what it does...?

 

[malfunctionMC]

They are pretty insane even if expensive initially.

Though considering you can use a mystcraft charged age and lightning rods for infinite free power...

if you look at the math, i havent even ADDED the material/processing cost of building the machines capable of running it. this is purely a look at the fuel production cost vs the EU output of that fuel.

For example. a cycle of the reactor, is 256 ticks... 12.8 Seconds. so you need to compress 46 minutes of processing time, into 12 seconds or so... not accounting for transport time between your processing machines, and the reactor.

look at the first step in the processing (the Electrolyzed water cells), you need to make 30 Cells within 12 seconds. it takes 1 Electrolyser 1500 ticks (75 seconds) to make 1 cell. So, to make 1 cell within 12 seconds, you need 6.25 Electrolysers, to make 30 cells, you need 187.5 Electrolysers running constantly!!!

 

[sciguyryan]

Yeah it's really not good... To be honest GregTech will probably be the difference between me using FTB or using Tekkit, unless a good FTB option without GregTech is presented. I don't see it as a good mod, at all. It really breaks the balance in the game far more than it fixes it.

Well I have to disagree there. GregTech makes so many of the recipes more expensive and complex that it easily balances out any effects you can get in the end (you need to look at the cost of some of the objects to appreciate that).

Omicron makes a fair point. Though if you want an easy way of transporting the power you need to either get one of the super expensive GregTech inter-dimensional energy transporters or a steady stream of lapotron crystals to transfer the power.

 

[bwillb]

Have you seen the "edit mod pack" button in the launcher, and what it does...?

Yes, that works pretty well for SSP. But server play is a whole other story, you gotta match the mods and the configs between server and client. For SSP I'll probably just build my own personal pack in MultiMC.

 

[sciguyryan]

Yes, that works pretty well for SSP. But server play is a whole other story, you gotta match the mods and the configs between server and client. For SSP I'll probably just build my own personal pack.

Well, no. You just disable the mod on the server and client and then you're sorted. All the recipes and whatnot it changes will revert back to what they were. Nothing more should be needed.

 

[Jason Betts]

Sciguy is right, but you actually just have to remove it from teh server mods folder, even if the clients have it installed they can play, and I beleive even craft the old recipes (just nei is messed up). At worst, they just remove the mod (its what I ended up doing). Once my friends and I are all used to the basic cheap versions of everything maybe we'll consider a more hardcore version with Gregtech, but I saw little value to it as a mod.

 

[Darlock Ahe]

There are 2 problems with this math:
1: Electrolyzed cells can be made faster near MFSU (and maybe even faster near gregtech storage units not possible)
2: You are not tied to single production line

MFSU produces 1 cell in approximately 30 seconds, 30 cells in 15 minutes. 2 MFSUs = 7.5 minutes, 4 MFSUs 3m 45s
Elecrolyzed cells are centrifuged 6 at once, so you can make up to 5 centrifuges if you want and as fast as 30 seconds
5 Deutreum, if you got 5 centrifuges from previous step will take 1 minute
and 1 more minute for tritium
total 6 minutes 15 seconds
7 hours 42 minutes for 74 fuell sets, time which can be cut down even more, by introduction of additional MFSU/Electrolyzer combos (if you are producing 1 fuell set at a time)
Of course this is VERY expensive to make, but thats fusion stuff for you, check the price tag on ITER and compare it with any nuclear plant

 

[zemerick]

I see a couple of things, mainly the real issue is simply that we don't have the most up to date greg-tech atm.

http://wiki.industrial-craft.net/index.php?title=IndustrialCraft-Addons:GregTech-Addon#Fusionreactor

You'll see it got a MASSIVE boost in several areas. The current EU/T is 4096 for a total of 1-2 million depending on recipe. I haven't done all of the math, but I think the He3 recipe might be better to use thanks to Mystcrafts extreme abundance of glowstone.

Anyways, the new EU/T is 1 million and the recipes produce 16 times more energy. An advanced electrolyzer was also added which speeds up production of electrolyzed water cells.

I'm still a ways from producing a fusion reactor, but I will look into the D+He3 recipe. I might try out a newer version of greg tech as well though.

 

[Omicron]

now... I offer this challenge to ALL of the gregtech supporters... please someone prove my math wrong, and show me a self sustaining fusion reactor setup... I really want to be wrong.

Well, after some looking around, it seems that you missed some secondary gains from the fusion reaction.

Namely, if you run the 73.05 cycles necessary to break even - or rather, you'd run 80, to be divisible by 16 - you could then cetrifuge the resultant helium cells at a 16:1 ratio to get five helium-3 cells. These are actually an input reagent for the second fusion reaction, which is Deuterium + Helium-3 = Helium. This reaction process is worth twice as much as the normal Deuterium/Tritium fusion, so if you run these in addition to your 80 other cycles you'll get an extra 10 million EU while spending only 5x 18,000 (the cost of the Helium-3 centrifuge recipe).

But wait, the stage 2 fusion also has a 40 million EU ignition cost. So to make a profit from this, you will need to run enough stage 1 fusion to generate at least 21 helium-3 cells... in other words, 336 cycles Are your eyes bulging yet? But hey, at this point you're already making a massive energy profit from the stage 1 fusion.

I think the Fusion reactor really only works by sheer economies of scale. You simply need to throw that unbelievable mountain of time and resources at it, there is no other way. That's really what GregTech is about, though: the ultra high-end, the point where you are far elss concerned with survival and filling your needs, and far more with building something awesome for the heck of it because all those resources would only clog up your storage chests otherwise.

 

[Darlock Ahe]

After updating gregtech, He-3+Deut reaction makes 67mil EU and requires 60 mil to start, so it should make profit from 1st reaction.
+ industrial electrolyzer can almost replace centrifuge

 

[MaxWayne]

You can use Mystcraft for infinite anything. It's right up there with Equivalent Exchange in terms of "free stuff for no effort".

hm wait, there is no more free stuff for no effort in EE3 but its real equivalent exchange now.

the bad point on gregs tech is... you have to eat the dirt or delete the mod. no choice is given to us. greg-tech blemish most important components and force you not to use the original ic2 recipes instead of giving the choice (via config).
the whole configuration is utterly crap. you can't disable hardmode (well you are can change it in the config but it does nothing) nor you can enable massfabricator or other ic2 items, and so on, and so on...
then, it's horrible expensive. thats in most cases ok, but some parts are so insane, not even worth to spend a single second on it. because its not fun, but pain !

would be nice to have greg's tech mod without his "eat or die" attitude

 

[Lord Aldrich]

hm wait, there is no more free stuff for no effort in EE3 but its real equivalent exchange now.

the bad point on gregs tech is... you have to eat the dirt or delete the mod. no choice is given to us. greg-tech blemish most important components and force you not to use the original ic2 recipes instead of giving the choice (via config).
the whole configuration is utterly crap. you can't disable hardmode (well you are can change it in the config but it does nothing) nor you can enable massfabricator or other ic2 items, and so on, and so on...
then, it's horrible expensive. thats in most cases ok, but some parts are so insane, not even worth to spend a single second on it. because its not fun, but pain !

would be nice to have greg's tech mod without his "eat or die" attitude

This is false information. Nearly every machine and every replacement recipie can be toggled on or off in the config file.

 

[malfunctionMC]

There are 2 problems with this math:
1: Electrolyzed cells can be made faster near MFSU (and maybe even faster near gregtech storage units not possible)
2: You are not tied to single production line

MFSU produces 1 cell in approximately 30 seconds, 30 cells in 15 minutes. 2 MFSUs = 7.5 minutes, 4 MFSUs 3m 45s
Elecrolyzed cells are centrifuged 6 at once, so you can make up to 5 centrifuges if you want and as fast as 30 seconds
5 Deutreum, if you got 5 centrifuges from previous step will take 1 minute
and 1 more minute for tritium
total 6 minutes 15 seconds
7 hours 42 minutes for 74 fuell sets, time which can be cut down even more, by introduction of additional MFSU/Electrolyzer combos (if you are producing 1 fuell set at a time)
Of course this is VERY expensive to make, but thats fusion stuff for you, check the price tag on ITER and compare it with any nuclear plant

checked and confirmed... 1 MFSU + Electrolyser makes an Electrolysed cell in 30 seconds. which brings this stage of processing down to 15 minutes (total). but you need to make your fuel processing fit within the fuel/cycle time of 12.8 seconds... to make 30 cells within 12.8 seconds, you need 71 Electrolysers.

 

[zemerick]

hm wait, there is no more free stuff for no effort in EE3 but its real equivalent exchange now.

the bad point on gregs tech is... you have to eat the dirt or delete the mod. no choice is given to us. greg-tech blemish most important components and force you not to use the original ic2 recipes instead of giving the choice (via config).
the whole configuration is utterly crap. you can't disable hardmode (well you are can change it in the config but it does nothing) nor you can enable massfabricator or other ic2 items, and so on, and so on...
then, it's horrible expensive. thats in most cases ok, but some parts are so insane, not even worth to spend a single second on it. because its not fun, but pain !

would be nice to have greg's tech mod without his "eat or die" attitude

Actually the ol' Blaze Rod exploit still works.

Also, as mentioned...everything else you said is wrong. Config works fine. Sounds like you are not changing it on both server and client. I'm currently using the IC2 mass fabricator as well as standard recipes for the macerator and other machines.

 

[thejoshknight]

So what your saying is the insane startup cost doesn't justify the reward? Not being sarcastic, I'm not familiar with the details of the mods yet.

 

[Darlock Ahe]

checked and confirmed... 1 MFSU + Electrolyser makes an Electrolysed cell in 30 seconds. which brings this stage of processing down to 15 minutes (total). but you need to make your fuel processing fit within the fuel/cycle time of 12.8 seconds... to make 30 cells within 12.8 seconds, you need 71 Electrolysers.

This whole thing is actually almost irrelevant, update to gregtech completely changes the ballance of whole fusion thing.
Industrial electrolyzer creates electrolyzed cells much faster (not sure how fast, time seems to vary) same machine can turn them into hydrogen cells and reactions now give A LOT more EU.

 

[MaxWayne]

This is false information. Nearly every machine and every replacement recipie can be toggled on or off in the config file.

true, you can change the config. but it has simply no effect. (at least on my server)

Actually the ol' Blaze Rod exploit still works.

Also, as mentioned...everything else you said is wrong. Config works fine. Sounds like you are not changing it on both server and client. I'm currently using the IC2 mass fabricator as well as standard recipes for the macerator and other machines.

wait... configuration settings on the client config have an effect on the server ? wow thats new