FTB no server plugins issue discussion thread.

[Greedseed]

Okay since there have been multiple threads about the FTB Vanilla server - Plugins issue popping up, i will start this official thread. I will be posting updates as well as collecting useful info from you guys and research.
Discussions can also be posted here. Keep this clean and friendly please.

Where are we at with FTB.
At the moment FTB Servers come in Vanilla server style. With Forge and the mods working with FTB custom configs to make everything work perfectly.
At this moment there is no official fix to get Bukkit plugins into FTB. Due to some issues between Forge and Bukkit.

What can we do?
Lately some new players have hopped on the band wagon, new options are available for OP's to use on there servers. There are at this stage 3 major options that you can all choose from.

Disclaimer! : All these projects below are WIP! This means they are Work In Progress and they may have bugs! Be careful in a live server and ALWAYS backup !!

• Forge Essentials

This is a mod that runs on only the server side, it will add functionality like World-Edit and Essentials from the old bukkit platform. Other features like world border and so on are available as well.
The mod it self comes in modules, so you can easily choose what you want to use and what not.

• Bukkit Forge

This is a core mod, like the obvious fact it is a mod that will go in the "core mods" folder of your server.
This will add bukkit hooks to your server and give you the option to add most of the bukkit plugins to your server in a "plugins" folder, just like the old times. Some mods like PermissionsEX are NOT working and probably never will!

• MCPC Plus

The new followup of the old MCPC ports of the mods for bukkit, this project will replace your "ftbserver.jar" and happily make bukkit plugins compatible. No more need for ports of any kind and still the awesome community of the MCPC website.

Where can i find plugins that work with FTB?
Check ot this thread in the admin section.

-This thread has bin checked and approved by SlowPoke-

 

[gpgauier]

There seems to be another plugin for Vanilla servers that might offer some solutions for server owners: SimpleMods (http://www.minecraftforge.net/forum/index.php/topic,3319.0.html).

Have not tried the plugin myself yet.

 

[Stellastronza]

Oke since there have bin multiple threads about the FTB Vanilla server - Plugins issue poping up, i will start this official thread. I will be posting updates as well as collecting usefull info from you guys and research.
Discussions can also be posted here. Keep this clean and friendly please.

Where are we at with FTB.
At the moment FTB Servers come in Vanilla server style. With Forge and the mods working with FTB custom configs to make everything work perfectly.
At this moment there is no official fix to get Bukkit plugins into FTB. Due to some issues between Forge and Bukkit.

What can we do?
At this point, all you can do is wait and fight for survival since there is not a lot of support for Vanilla.
There are some small sollutions like Fihgu's command mods for vanilla. (Requere's Forge.)

What will the future bring?
Time will tell. At this moment we will still see FTB running with vanilla servers. But some of you might have seen that MCPC wiki is starting to fill up. Some porters like AlphAest are working on porting Forge and Mods to Bukkit.
These are 3th party ports and are not official supported by FTB at the moment. So you will have to build your server yourself if you want to use Bukkit ported material at the moment.

Also, Forge is working on adding all (Or most of them) hookins that Bukkit provides. That means, instead of porting mods and Forge to Bukkit, you can port plugins to Forge. We are still waiting for this update to complete, but i expect to see a lot of plugin devs making there plugins compatible with Forge as soon as it hits. Also we will start getting people that start porting the Bukkit plugins to Forge.

I hope this helps you all out a bit, and i hope this can start some healthy conversations.

What discomforts me most is that slowpoke said that he said he has no idea if it the porting will ever happen, as they have no clear solution ahead for the forge vs. bukkit issue.

 

[Greedseed]

Will it is a fact that Bukkit or Forge wont start loving eachoder. But there are 3th party porters at work witch we need to look at as well. And hope they will help us out a bit.

At the end, i would like to see Bukkit plugins and Plugin devs comming to Forge instead of Bukkit

There seems to be another plugin for Vanilla servers that might offer some solutions for server owners: SimpleMods (http://www.minecraftforge.net/forum/index.php/topic,3319.0.html).

Have not tried the plugin myself yet.

Cool suggestions, let keep more comming.
I wont put SimpleMods in the main thread yet. Since the lack of info, claimed instability and so on. Need to know more before we go recommend it.

 

[gpgauier]

I assume that the FTB team was as surprised as everyone when the news came out that the Bukkit port for Forge would never be a reality. Otherwise they made a poor decision in releasing the pack with such poor server management support (compared to Bukkit).

But everyone should have complete confidence in the fact that all the great features of Bukkit and it's numerous plugins will be ported to Forge. This is a great opportunity for new mods/plugins to arise and to make the minecraft system even more coherent, with Forge at it's base.

 

[Greedseed]

FTB is about the client as big as about the server. Slow did not see any harm in releasing the server two. We all knew the big server will be holding off a bit until there is support for plugins, but this is not stopping smaller private servers from starting up on Vanilla.

I have confidence in slow and the FTB team to get threw this issue.

 

[Lathanael]

At the end, i would like to see Bukkit plugins and Plugin devs comming to Forge instead of Bukkit.

But for that Forge needs some more server specific events to be included and some basic API additions like the SuperPerms system. Until that is not the case some bukkit mods are damn hard to port.

I might start working on a Server tweak mod which includes some of NoLagg/CraftBukkit++/Spigots features. Will have to see what Forge allows me to do easily.

 

[Vauthil]

I assume that the FTB team was as surprised as everyone when the news came out that the Bukkit port for Forge would never be a reality. Otherwise they made a poor decision in releasing the pack with such poor server management support (compared to Bukkit).

Yeah, publicly it was a rather sudden splatter from what I understand. At that point they were obligated to release and strike while the iron was hot.

I think it's a serious miscalculation on bukkit's part to rebuff cpw, but they may also be constrained by factors outside our knowledge (or even just inertia; you'd be amazed how much a role that can play in such things). That said, it's now created an opportunity for a one-stop-shopping ecosystem to crop up around Forge without any regrets for stealing Bukkit's thunder.

We live in interesting times. =)

 

[Greedseed]

But for that Forge needs some more server specific events to be included and some basic API additions like the SuperPerms system. Until that is not the case some bukkit mods are damn hard to port.

I might start working on a Server tweak mod which includes some of NoLagg/CraftBukkit++/Spigots features. Will have to see what Forge allows me to do easily.

Also, Forge is working on adding all (Or most of them) hook-ins that Bukkit provides. That means, instead of porting mods and Forge to Bukkit, you can port plugins to Forge.

So those hooks will get in there soon.

 

[VoicetotheVoid]

I have a video describing what to do to add Fihgu's mods to a server for basic things like protections, will have more videos about their use coming soon.

 

[xnorius]

I have a video describing what to do to add Fihgu's mods to a server for basic things like protections, will have more videos about their use coming soon.

You should also recommend that people backup there server jar before overwriting it.


Also there is a "Forge Essentials" Mod that is currently under early development.
https://github.com/ForgeEssentials/ForgeEssentialsMain

 

[PoLoMoTo]

Wouldn't this work? https://github.com/downloads/alphaest/MCPC-1.4/mcpc-1.4.2-beta-11.jar

It has the same version of forge as FTB

Oh mods designed for vanilla SMP are different than Bukkit aren't they.... Well never mind then...

 

[Vauthil]

I am going to post this here because it's the most immediately relevant topic for it, but I may end up starting a new topic entirely if it merits it. This is, I feel, something every person administrating a modded Minecraft server should check out and think about.

Earlier this week, in the land of the Almighty Bukkit: http://t.co/7Od0X5og

If that's too much of a read for you, let me summarize: LexManos and CPW made one final, last-ditch attempt at working for a copacetic solution for Forge and bukkit. And they got shut down, starting with this gem as an opener:

The party with the lower hand, does not have the ability to propose solutions.

That's the bukkit team telling the Forge crew -- and by extension, every single one of us running a server with the mods made possible by Forge and FML -- that they do not consider us at all an important demographic. They don't care. They're too big/important/ineffable/<insert arrogant jerkish posturing adjective here> to give a damn about us, our communities, and the development tools that make them possible. That to them so much as asking for a simple directory of how they handle their mappings so a translation codex between bukkit and MCP could be nailed down once and for all is just too much and that we should be grateful for what scraps they give us.

They've also made it fairly clear that they see Forge -- and modded Minecraft by extension -- as a threat to their project, and in that circumstance they're going to bunker up rather than come to a mutually beneficial solution.

So what do we do?

First off, we stop asking people to handle bukkit ports of our favorite mods, as well as the forge framework itself. Bukkit wants nothing to do with modded Minecraft, they've broadcast this loud and clear, so we should wash our hands of them. There will be a point at which these unofficial ports will all fall down flat and go boom; that almost happened already and was salvaged by some other community members for this particular go-round. We need and deserve a better solution, one that doesn't depend on somebody outside of the projects to "save the day", and we should work towards attaining that.

Secondly, we should support and assist the Forge team in their endeavors to provide the kinds of server management functionality we're going to need now that it's obvious a compromise will never be reached. Let your voice be heard in threads like this one about what functionality you're going to need. Donate to the Forge mod developers, because other than our thanks that's all they're getting for doing this and they have bills to pay too (I'd post links but it's a bit hard retrieving them on my netbook here, so if somebody could provide those I'd greatly appreciate it) and they often don't get the spotlight for their silent work in the background. Stay on top of your favorite mods and their developers and assist them where possible or necessary in having mods compatible natively with the kinds of server management tools we'll be seeing coming in the near future.

And lastly, don't waste time or resources further trying to engage bukkit on this. Their stance has been laid bare: they wish to be known for their past accomplishments rather than for building bridges into the future. The paradigm of server and client in Minecraft changed in 1.3.2 and is certain to continue to evolve; bukkit has decided to remain as they are, content in being the big fish they see themselves as. I personally think they're merely fossilizing; nobody runs to the museum to shout at dinosaurs at how they're stupid fossils, and so we shouldn't go over there and do that either. Let's channel our energies as server admins and lovers of modded Minecraft towards making something new instead. Let future demographics judge these events.

Murum aries attigit. Let's "win" by supporting the forward-looking product here and cultivating the better community. They can keep their old server-only solution and their "upper hand". Maybe if we're successful enough we can even make them regret that stance, but at that point we'll all be running fully-integrated modded servers with the protections we all want and the gameplay we all enjoy, and with no more of these backroom shenanigans making the whole setup so fragile.

Edit: Added a quickie screenshot of the meat of the bukkit post, just in case it happens to get "misplaced" once somebody figures out how bad it looks.

 

[Greedseed]

Dam bukkit We are refusing to use a bukkit server since what happen last time Only forge here. We are working with a couple of people on making NEW mods for Forge, these will contain permissions like PermissionsEX and zone protection. Porting bukkit plugins is way to painfull so we just start from scrath

 

[PoLoMoTo]

We should go see if the people over at CanaryMod will work with us, maybe we could breath some new life into it.

 

[Sp0nge]

Dam bukkit We are refusing to use a bukkit server since what happen last time Only forge here. We are working with a couple of people on making NEW mods for Forge, these will contain permissions like PermissionsEX and zone protection. Porting bukkit plugins is way to painfull so we just start from scrath

As i understand, porting PEX itselfe, took like 1h? We allready have a PEX mod on our server, issue is, there is no mods using a nodesystem yet

 

[Greedseed]

well that is a problem since not all hookins for PEX are in forge yet

 

[Sp0nge]

PEX only handles nodes from other mods right? If you are refering to modifiworld, ur correct

 

[Vauthil]

We should go see if the people over at CanaryMod will work with us, maybe we could breath some new life into it.

I don't know. I'm trained to look at obstacles as opportunities. In the post-1.3.2 world, I think this is the perfect opportunity to get modded Minecraft reliably working on the same paradigm that primary vanilla Minecraft now operates: server and client as one package, doing everything users want of it.

Nothing personal against the CanaryMod guys. They do use MCP mappings already and the rest of that, so it should (relatively speaking) be a breeze, but I think ForgeBukkit largely happened because of server admin demand specifically to work specifically with bukkit plugins, and also because of the members of the community at places like MCPC who were willing to port the mods themselves to be compatible on the server side with bukkit. Without those things, there's really not a point in it (no offense, but CanaryMod's "release" level product right now remains a 1.2.5 server; that doesn't inspire confidence that there's enough infrastructure behind it to make it a long term solution, to me).

I just don't think the solution to having been shackled to intractable dinosaur tech and suffering through it is necessarily to get shackled to more tractable dinosaur tech (personal opinion and with diplomacy-mode turned off). From a standpoint of mod support and the rest of it, having Forge itself offer the server administration hooks makes more sense. The people you'd really have to ask are those at MCPC who were making the bukkit ports of all these mods every version. But even then we're still just perpetuating the parallel products mentality, instead of just supporting one version. Mojang changed vanilla Minecraft for a reason; maybe we should learn from that.

 

[Joseph Redmond]

Since we may have to start from scratch I would love to use some of my favorite and useful plug ins. Such as the "Faction" plug in. It has many great uses and is perfect for PvP. I do not know of any mods or plug ins that are nearly as good as factions. I am not a good coder but I would love to help with the dev of this plug in.