Forge and Nova

[NJM1564]

Would it not be pretty easy to just specify which games your mod can work on?
That would mean developers could easily choose if they only want to support Minecraft/some other game or not.

Nope, not that easy. That would require cooperation from the end of the game it's meant to work on. If the mod looks for a bit of code to say it works then it depends on that code always being there. Conversely it would be very easy to add that bit of code the mod is looking for to other games.
And if you think they won't please remember the mod reposing issues and the fact that many of these minecraft clones are pure cash grabs.

 

[Strikingwolf]

Nope, not that easy. That would require cooperation from the end of the game it's meant to work on. If the mod looks for a bit of code to say it works then it depends on that code always being there. Conversely it would be very easy to add that bit of code the mod is looking for to other games.
And if you think they won't please remember the mod reposing issues and the fact that many of these minecraft clones are pure cash grabs.

No it doesn't have to do that. If Nova has a way to tell what game you're running on you just have to do a simple if loop to check if you are on a supported game, or an if else if combo to implement features specific to certain games with direct hooks

 

[Arkandos]

No it doesn't have to do that. If Nova has a way to tell what game you're running on you just have to do a simple if loop to check if you are on a supported game, or an if else if combo to implement features specific to certain games with direct hooks

Exactly my point

 

[Strikingwolf]

Exactly my point

I know, just providing @NJM1564 with proof that it would work.

 

[pc_assassin]

You know, that comment makes you sound very self-entitled. "Whatever you do affects the players"? Like we have some kind of duty to serve the players at all times? Really? We are humans, and have our own feelings and thoughts. Also, how are we supposed to fix that a "hack" to the rendering code works perfectly with Forge? Most of us have never contributed to Forge. And Bukkit? Do you really blame the Bukkit drama on an entirely different community!?

I was going to write something here but I'm keeping it to myself as it really wouldn't have been worth it.

But what I will say is this: I you developers decided to go all out on each other in your mods then it effects players and makes the modding community as a whole look bad. Me saying it effects players is not supposed to sound self entitled. Its just a fact. We play your mods and when you take out your anger on mod authors in your mods we get caught in the middle of stuff we aren't involved in.

P.S. I agree with you about the whole skyboy Greg thing though

 

[NJM1564]

No it doesn't have to do that. If Nova has a way to tell what game you're running on you just have to do a simple if loop to check if you are on a supported game, or an if else if combo to implement features specific to certain games with direct hooks

But what is it checking on. The name of the game? That is a bit of code. Code that can be changed easily. So basically all I would need to do is change the name of a single file to make it work. And hope that the name of a single file won't change to make sure it will still work.

 

[Strikingwolf]

But what is it checking on. The name of the game? That is a bit of code. Code that can be changed easily. So basically all I would need to do is change the name of a single file to make it work. And hope that the name of a single file won't change to make sure it will still work.

Check the name of the game by checking an id in the game's code. Something a user can't change

 

[NJM1564]

The problem is that right now, no mod works across games, so the fact that even now there are people making that mistake means there will be floods of them when some mods do.

Nova isn't the only thing you have to worry about thin. Apparently project red is being remade for one of the clones. That alone will cause a great deal of confusion.
I suspect the key to moderating the issues such things will produce would have to be helpful error messages. A popup saying that won't work here it's for MInecraft offical and X&X mineclones only.

 

[NJM1564]

Check the name of the game by checking an id in the game's code. Something a user can't change

Something the user can't change easily. But that won't stop people from trying.
And game devs might. Anything to make a buck.

 

[Padfoote]

Something the user can't change easily. But that won't stop people from trying.
And game devs might. Anything to make a buck.

The users the devs are concerned about won't be able to figure out how to edit the code to change this.

 

[Strikingwolf]

Something the user can't change easily. But that won't stop people from trying.
And game devs might. Anything to make a buck.

Not many users that would say something about that sort of thing would know how to change it

 

[NJM1564]

Not many users that would say something about that sort of thing would know how to change it

I was thinking more like say: Someone makes this new pay game called Florgecraft. Uses a mineclone and swipes some mods.
Who do you think is going to get the complaints if it all goes wrong.

And there are strict rules on how you can make money off of minecraft and related mods. But if you use those same mods with a mineclone there are no rules. People are going to be using this sort of system to make a lot of money and probably out and out scam a bunch of people too.
Just send us $99.99 to play this new game called we got ya credit card info.

Notch started enforcing the EULA because of everyone complaining to him about such things. So that's even more complaints and who knows who will have to deal with them.
I'm betting on anyone who can possibly be reached.

Mod devs could even be charged as co-conspirators in such scams. I don't think mod devs would get convicted because it would be obvious that it was an unlicensed copy. But it is possible.

This is all worst case scenarios but not beyond the realm of possibilities.

At the least new licenses will be needed to be drawn up to cover such possibilities.

 

[ljfa]

It's up to the users if they want to pay $99.99 for something like this.
Many Minecraft mods are open source, allowing monetization. But also: many Minecraft mods are under a CC-NC license, disallowing it.

 

[NJM1564]

But you know what? Mojang has NOTHING to say about it. They don't have any kind of ownership over mods, and their EULA is overridden by mod copyright. (Not that I support massive mod monetisation)

I don't think you can't override a EULA. Doing so would be a breach of the EULA.

 

[asiekierka]

First, let me remind you that a lot of NOVA was supposed to be an experiment, not seeing the public light of day until it is done.

With that out of the way... The way we planned to do it is via specifying the Managers you want in the mod's constructor. A Manager is essentially an instance of a class central to the API, providing all necessary utility functions to use it. The constructor is initialized via a dependency injection system, so the mod doesn't care about where the instance of the manager comes from - it just gets it.

Managers are generally provided by APIs in the form of abstract classes or interfaces, while their implementations can be provided by anything - libraries, mods, etc. If a Manager is not installed, two things can happen:
a) the mod will refuse to run,
b) if the Manager is requested as an Optional<...Manager>, the mod will still run, however the Optional will be empty.

While the ability to get the name of the game you're running on will be possible, I really don't want people to do the "this only runs on Minecraft anyway via hardcoded checks" hijinks. That's nasty.

Clones? They happen already. Open-source games get ripped from the internet and republished on the Android Market quite often - Minetest had at least three paid forks like that, they simply either took them down as they did not provide any source code OR incorporated their improvements into their own game. So it's not like it'd be a new thing.

 

[epidemia78]

So let me get this straight. Nova is some kind of modloader, a forge alternative? Which was developed in secret and this Lex Manos character is the devil? Honestly I think this thread belongs in mod development because it is full of technobabble and has nothing to do with the actual playing of mods.

 

[ljfa]

So let me get this straight. Nova is some kind of modloader, a forge alternative? Which was developed in secret and this Lex Manos character is the devil? Honestly I think this thread belongs in mod development because it is full of technobabble and has nothing to do with the actual playing of mods.

No, the Minecraft implementation is dependant on Forge. It's an abstraction layer on top of Forge (or other games).

 

[epidemia78]

Oh well that explains everything, lol.

 

[ratchet freak]

So let me get this straight. Nova is some kind of modloader, a forge alternative? Which was developed in secret and this Lex Manos character is the devil? Honestly I think this thread belongs in mod development because it is full of technobabble and has nothing to do with the actual playing of mods.

no NOVA is a abstraction layer which can fit on top of forge (and possibly other mincraft clones). part of the operation had it forcing java8 compatibility

Then Lex found out about it and threw a hissy fit.

 

[epidemia78]

But why was he so mad? I have to play devil's advocate here and assume he had a reason and its not just because he is a tyrant.