Forge and Nova

[Padfoote]

I just don't get the problems with it

• I don't care if people want to tell me that my coding style is horrible / how to write code "correctly". If it functions and isn't causing performance issues, I don't care about writing "correctly".
  
• If people want to learn from others on how to do things, they shouldn't go to me for help. It'll end poorly for them.
• Assuming you care about people stealing code, open / visible source makes it far easier. Typically, the people that are going to yank entire blocks of code won't be able to figure out how to decompile the file to begin with.
  
• I can track down issues easy enough without having my code visible anywhere / without using a source control system.

In the end, I just don't care about putting code out there for everyone to see. Less people telling me how awful it is that way, and fewer issues when I forget to push / pull correctly.

 

[RavynousHunter]

There are many advantages:

• Easy way to see/organize Project growth and changes in code (you could keep a vcs just running without pushing to an external server for this though)
• People may look at your code and try to help you improve it
• Easy and specific (i.e. link to specific code points) issue tracking
• Easy to ask people for help (link to codepoints, allowing them to see all the different interacting sections of code)

Another thing that you apparently don't care about is the community's ability to view your code and learn about it. Many many people don't want to ask someone for help explicitly for whatever reason so they use visible/open source projects to learn. As far as syncing your code being a hassle or something I don't really get. It becomes ingrained in your workflow extremely quickly and is a negligible difference compared to actually writing the code.

I just don't get the problems with it

To address point-by-point:

1) I can do the same thing with external documentation, something I already do to organize my thoughts.
2) You are assuming I care for having others give me constant input. I do not. Unless I'm having a specific problem, I can find my own answers easily enough.
3) I'll grant you that one. I could also potentially create something similar using JIRA, something I already use at work.
4) Pastebin. My questions tend to be very specific things, relating to, at most, two files.

That's all well and good for them. Hell, that's how I've learned. I just don't care for teaching like that. Again, I wouldn't mind doing articles. I've even considered doing something like that, if I ever had the time to dedicate to something like that. Thing is, you likely have had these things ingrained into your mind as a developer. I haven't. I've spent most of my life developing alone. That's just how I prefer to work.

 

[Strikingwolf]

• I don't care if people want to tell me that my coding style is horrible / how to write code "correctly". If it functions and isn't causing performance issues, I don't care about writing "correctly".
  
• If people want to learn from others on how to do things, they shouldn't go to me for help. It'll end poorly for them.
• Assuming you care about people stealing code, open / visible source makes it far easier. Typically, the people that are going to yank entire blocks of code won't be able to figure out how to decompile the file to begin with.
  
• I can track down issues easy enough without having my code visible anywhere / without using a source control system.

In the end, I just don't care about putting code out there for everyone to see. Less people telling me how awful it is that way, and fewer issues when I forget to push / pull correctly.

• That's a bad mindset IMO, writing code in a good style helps you add things later, among making it more stable overall
• Well that may or may not be true
• I'll give you that, but do those people become successful?
• I never said that you can't do it without one, I said it makes it easier and more specific

To address point-by-point:

1) I can do the same thing with external documentation, something I already do to organize my thoughts.
2) You are assuming I care for having others give me constant input. I do not. Unless I'm having a specific problem, I can find my own answers easily enough.
3) I'll grant you that one. I could also potentially create something similar using JIRA, something I already use at work.
4) Pastebin. My questions tend to be very specific things, relating to, at most, two files.

That's all well and good for them. Hell, that's how I've learned. I just don't care for teaching like that. Again, I wouldn't mind doing articles. I've even considered doing something like that, if I ever had the time to dedicate to something like that. Thing is, you likely have had these things ingrained into your mind as a developer. I haven't. I've spent most of my life developing alone. That's just how I prefer to work.

• That isn't as automatic as using source control, although it is good practice either way, I'll give you that
• I never said you couldn't, visible/open source usually helps with the problems you don't see
• Maybe, I'm not sure
• Well I haven't heard a question from you, so I didn't assume that

It's definitely ingrained into my mind I'll give you that. I prefer to work alone also (the majority of my projects are learning projects so it's kinda necessary), but I've used git since I started deving and I really like it, when I don't use it I see places where it would be nice to have *shrug* Just seems to be an opinion at best, with decent points on either side

 

[RavynousHunter]

Aye, to each their own. What I got works for me. Might change it if I find that another way works better, nothing's set in stone.

 

[Padfoote]

• That's a bad mindset IMO, writing code in a good style helps you add things later, among making it more stable overall
• Well that may or may not be true
• I'll give you that, but do those people become successful?
• I never said that you can't do it without one, I said it makes it easier and more specific

The first point is highly debatable. I'm with FC on this whole thing in that what dictates a "good style" is up to each person. Obviously, having a style guide you need to follow at work isn't debatable, but that isn't the topic here. Besides, how will a three space tab make my code less stable than a four space tab? Like I said, unless my code is causing memory leaks or performance issues, I don't care how I write it, and others shouldn't either.

On the third point, they almost never do, but it prevents you from needing to deal with issues with them as frequently.

Again, the fourth point is highly debatable. For the past two weeks I've been hunting down a memory leak in an internal dev tool for my company, and haven't touched our source control software for it once. It wouldn't have helped me in any way, and hasn't even when I was fixing simple, non-memory related bugs. Using it for anything other than pushing new changes is a hassle.

Writing this post has also reminded me why I hate bullet points on this forum.

 

[Strikingwolf]

The first point is highly debatable. I'm with FC on this whole thing in that what dictates a "good style" is up to each person. Obviously, having a style guide you need to follow at work isn't debatable, but that isn't the topic here. Besides, how will a three spaaaaaace tab make my code less stable than a four spaaaaaace tab? Like I said, unless my code is causing memory leaks or performance issues, I don't care how I write it, and others shouldn't either.

Those are negligible things and really shouldn't be debated as much as they are. I'm talking about the non aesthetic side of coding style. The interactions between it all and the like.

On the third point, they almost never do, but it prevents you from needing to deal with issues with them as frequently.

Yeah I guess. Although if I was in such a situation I wouldn't deal with them, they would die out on their own anyway IMO

Again, the fourth point is highly debatable. For the past two weeks I've been hunting down a memory leak in an internal dev tool for my company, and haven't touched our source control software for it once. It wouldn't have helped me in any way, and hasn't even when I was fixing simple, non-memory related bugs. Using it for anything other than pushing new changes is a hassle.

Tracking down issues is different from issue tracking

I meant people reporting issues. Like someone reporting that "hey there's a memory leak" is less useful than someone reporting "there's a memory leak and I think I know where it is <link to code block>"

Writing this post has also reminded me why I hate bullet points on this forum.

Writing on this forum reminds me why I hate BB code

 

[Padfoote]

Those are negligible things and really shouldn't be debated as much as they are. I'm talking about the non aesthetic side of coding style. The interactions between it all and the like.

That can basically be summarized as "Don't be a moron" when writing the code.

Tracking down issues is different from issue tracking

I meant people reporting issues. Like someone reporting that "hey there's a memory leak" is less useful than someone reporting "there's a memory leak and I think I know where it is <link to code block>"

I work exclusively with the first one. While everyone within the company has access to the code, they never look into it to see what the issue is, it's just not worth their time. They report what the issue is and I typically find it within 30 minutes without any problems. Now whether or not that's person specific I have no idea, I just know it helps that I have over a hundred of the critical functions and their locations memorized.

 

[Strikingwolf]

That can basically be summarized as "Don't be a moron" when writing the code.

I disagree but whatever

I work exclusively with the first one. While everyone within the company has access to the code, they never look into it to see what the issue is, it's just not worth their time. They report what the issue is and I typically find it within 30 minutes without any problems. Now whether or not that's person specific I have no idea, I just know it helps that I have over a hundred of the critical functions and their locations memorized.

I can't really say if that is person-specific or not, don't have enough examples

 

[Strikingwolf]

Can I point out that someone necro'd a thread about Forge and MC drama and it developed into a VCS/visible source debate

 

[sgbros1]

Can I point out that someone necro'd a thread about Forge and MC drama and it developed into a VCS/visible source debate

Time for Padfoote to move the entire discussion to a new thread

 

[NJM1564]

2) Yes, because Minecraft has historically been a very unstable scene: remember the 1.8 Forge drama? Remember Bukkit? The Microsoft buyout? Eloraam? FlowerChild? Exploding bees? Greg? mDiyo? Player v. SimplyJetpacks? Immibis's Blutricity power conversion addon? 1.6 MJ changes? IC2 Experimental?

You forgot RF.

Anyway it looks like that necropost has set off a firestorm. As that might hase bin the intent of the post. Can we get a mod to take a look and see if this thread needs locking.

 

[keybounce]

Hunter's original post about not liking open/visible source was from february. So this is just a continuation of that.

Keep in mind that almost all of page 19's posts these two days has been on topic; perhaps just flushing the open/visible source debate to another thread instead of locking?

 

[Padfoote]

Time for Padfoote to move the entire discussion to a new thread

Eh... If people want to continue it I can break it off, otherwise I'll just leave it.

You forgot RF.

Anyway it looks like that necropost has set off a firestorm. As that might hase bin the intent of the post. Can we get a mod to take a look and see if this thread needs locking.

I've been posting in here since the necro, it's fine. If you really think something needs closing in the future and want a mod to see it, report it.

Typically, threads evolve over time and slowly switch topics. So long as it isn't someone trying to derail a thread, the OP hasn't complained, or it isn't extremely bad, we just leave it alone. Far easier to let everyone do that than have us constantly cracking down on it.

 

[Strikingwolf]

Eh... If people want to continue it I can break it off, otherwise I'll just leave it.

I remember there being a thread for coding debates anyway...can't remember where it is though

 

[HeilMewTwo]

I remember there being a thread for coding debates anyway...can't remember where it is though

There were several, created specifically because of you if I remember correctly.

 

[Strikingwolf]

There were several, created specifically because of you if I remember correctly.

Shhhhhh