Factorization: Is it really worth it?
- Thread starter Bellaabzug21
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Welp, now for a big rant from me.
So, for someone who has ALWAYS loved factorization I have been very happy with the changes coming with it.
It is not the usual technology mod all of you usually use, with minimal effort and minimal choice, factorization is what I would call a "extension of vannila", it does things which are not vannila like, but it does it in a manner which is deemed fit.
For example, the new crafting system, you need to either place the blocks down or use them in barrels (which interact with servos well
), this isnt what people are usually used to, with either BC crafting or AE crafting, which are minimal effort and all gui orientated.
Factorization also is a mod which all comes together, everything is designed to work with everything else in a very fun manner and is NEVER designed to one up something.
So what I'm getting at is most users dont like it because its not a "easy" mod like what they are used to, they are all used to the mods which do everything for them with little effort.
Because of these reasons Factorization is such a incredible mod to play with once you get into it, its mechanics feel like nothing you will have ever played before and it rarely uses guis.
While its a very daunting thing to try if you have only used mods like TE, AE etc, it is definitely worth using.
And don't forget, if you are having problems with things you can always ask on #factorization on esper.net
(And yes, I'm saying mods are easy, but i dont want to get into a rant here ^^)
So, for someone who has ALWAYS loved factorization I have been very happy with the changes coming with it.
It is not the usual technology mod all of you usually use, with minimal effort and minimal choice, factorization is what I would call a "extension of vannila", it does things which are not vannila like, but it does it in a manner which is deemed fit.
For example, the new crafting system, you need to either place the blocks down or use them in barrels (which interact with servos well
), this isnt what people are usually used to, with either BC crafting or AE crafting, which are minimal effort and all gui orientated. Factorization also is a mod which all comes together, everything is designed to work with everything else in a very fun manner and is NEVER designed to one up something.
So what I'm getting at is most users dont like it because its not a "easy" mod like what they are used to, they are all used to the mods which do everything for them with little effort.
Because of these reasons Factorization is such a incredible mod to play with once you get into it, its mechanics feel like nothing you will have ever played before and it rarely uses guis.
While its a very daunting thing to try if you have only used mods like TE, AE etc, it is definitely worth using.
And don't forget, if you are having problems with things you can always ask on #factorization on esper.net
(And yes, I'm saying mods are easy, but i dont want to get into a rant here ^^)
TC4 is also a "not easy" mod and yet very enjoyable. Getting a semi-reliable Infusion Altar was not easy, but is more than worth it. I never get tired of Infusion crafting in TC4.
Yes, nobody is forcing me to go through the entire thing, but in doing it only partially there is no benefit over other mods' ore processing systems.
People use IC2 because they like IC2 and the options it provides. With factorization there is only one option. Use solar generation or nothing.
caliometric burners or boilers or even Atomic Science reactors if they still make steam.
wrong. routers. routers. ROUTERS. they are the bread and butter of any automation. damm you and your solar farms!
Umm, as far as I know engineer's toolkit can up to triple the ore output.
MFR's liquid routers are pretty awesome in a liquid-heavy build.
Look, there are what, 20 different major techmods, each of which requires an entirely different and complicated knowledge base.
BC, IC2, FZ, RC, rotarycraft, UE, MFR, Project Red, Esmasher, CC, Ancient Warfare, Tinker's, genetics, TC, TE, Ender IO, scrolls, Ars Magica, and even some sub-mods and standalones like Forestry, AE, Witchery, MPA, Blood Magic, Remote IO, and probably dozens more.
And each of these mods requires a different and unique way of setting things up, getting them running, automating them, clearing them out, and often have their own unique 'language' of how things must be arranged in order to get them working efficiently and effectively.
The fact is, a mod that has too steep of a learning curve and does not offer enough 'options', is going to be left by the wayside. Rotarycraft introduced a new power system, and is extremely complicated with massive iterations, and it is struggling despite the fact that it adds dozens, if not hundreds, of new play options.
Factorization adds a paltry few, and requires a complex methodology and a great deal of setup to offer those few options. Frankly it LOOKS cool, but for what it can offer it's just too much 'real' work learning it's particular 'language', and there's too much gruntwork to get to the good stuff.
Ender IO and TE offer a much better setup/learning curve for getting to the 'good stuff', since the machine setup is just flat-out intuitive. Rotarycraft has a heck of a lot harder learning curve, but the 'that looks cool as hell' factor and the sheer amount of stuff you can DO with it, as well as it's complete rejection of the 'magic box' concept, makes it worth the curve. Buildcraft and IC2 are just.... well... old, and pioneered the magic box concept, and some of us are just getting tired of doing the same old thing we have been doing for years. sure, that 'pumping' engine thing was cool 3 years ago, but now? after seeing it in dozens of mods, recolored 'pumping boxes' are just tiresome. But, despite their geriatric status, People learned how to do IC2 and BC stuff years ago, so they are going strong.
Factorization? It needs to either do more, do it better, do it more creatively, or be easier to use. Right now it's an Edsel.
MFR's liquid routers are pretty awesome in a liquid-heavy build.
Look, there are what, 20 different major techmods, each of which requires an entirely different and complicated knowledge base.
BC, IC2, FZ, RC, rotarycraft, UE, MFR, Project Red, Esmasher, CC, Ancient Warfare, Tinker's, genetics, TC, TE, Ender IO, scrolls, Ars Magica, and even some sub-mods and standalones like Forestry, AE, Witchery, MPA, Blood Magic, Remote IO, and probably dozens more.
And each of these mods requires a different and unique way of setting things up, getting them running, automating them, clearing them out, and often have their own unique 'language' of how things must be arranged in order to get them working efficiently and effectively.
The fact is, a mod that has too steep of a learning curve and does not offer enough 'options', is going to be left by the wayside. Rotarycraft introduced a new power system, and is extremely complicated with massive iterations, and it is struggling despite the fact that it adds dozens, if not hundreds, of new play options.
Factorization adds a paltry few, and requires a complex methodology and a great deal of setup to offer those few options. Frankly it LOOKS cool, but for what it can offer it's just too much 'real' work learning it's particular 'language', and there's too much gruntwork to get to the good stuff.
Ender IO and TE offer a much better setup/learning curve for getting to the 'good stuff', since the machine setup is just flat-out intuitive. Rotarycraft has a heck of a lot harder learning curve, but the 'that looks cool as hell' factor and the sheer amount of stuff you can DO with it, as well as it's complete rejection of the 'magic box' concept, makes it worth the curve. Buildcraft and IC2 are just.... well... old, and pioneered the magic box concept, and some of us are just getting tired of doing the same old thing we have been doing for years. sure, that 'pumping' engine thing was cool 3 years ago, but now? after seeing it in dozens of mods, recolored 'pumping boxes' are just tiresome. But, despite their geriatric status, People learned how to do IC2 and BC stuff years ago, so they are going strong.
Factorization? It needs to either do more, do it better, do it more creatively, or be easier to use. Right now it's an Edsel.
It is true that can use other mods. But with factorization by it's own there is only one native way of generating power.
This is exactly what I'm saying. All factorization does now is what other mods do. If it brings nothing new to the table, then why keep it?[DOUBLEPOST=1387584166][/DOUBLEPOST]
wrong. routers. routers. ROUTERS. they are the bread and butter of any automation. damm you and your solar farms!
Routers are being removed.
I am not trying to say that your opinion on FZ is wrong but I want to be clear that Caliometric burners are natively part of FZ. (And I can't help but say that 2 ways of making charge with just FZ is not bad compared to 3 ways of making RF with just Thermal Expansion).
Everything in Factorization except the servos are pretty easy to understand and the custom machine recipes are well supported in NEI. I would love to see some more practical demonstrations of the servos though because they look great and powerful. And if they are expected to replace routers then there will probably be a lot of interest in them shortly. I hope Direwolf uses them extensively in at least one build this lets play season. Meanwhile I will attempt how to work them myself.
I plan on it actually. I have been busy testing a lot of different item transport mods with a view to maybe do a little series on them. Especially since there seems to be a lot of new people joining FTB recently (which is great). And working out cool ways of getting items from one place to another in an intelligent way is probably my favourite thing to do in Minecraft. But servos are haaaard.
I have nearly completed a super compact fully automated FZ ore processing line (for ardite, cobalt and dark iron) using a combination of TE itemducts, computercraft/openperipherals, and infinitubes with cameos from dartcraft, railcraft and MFR. It can fit in one chunk even though each ore has five dedicated crystallisers. It is using routers at the moment but when I learn how to use servos properly I hope to be able to get rid of all the routers and infinitubes. I might see if I can make a feature request* of Neptunepink which will allow me to get rid of some of the computercraft as well.
*
I have nearly completed a super compact fully automated FZ ore processing line (for ardite, cobalt and dark iron) using a combination of TE itemducts, computercraft/openperipherals, and infinitubes with cameos from dartcraft, railcraft and MFR. It can fit in one chunk even though each ore has five dedicated crystallisers. It is using routers at the moment but when I learn how to use servos properly I hope to be able to get rid of all the routers and infinitubes. I might see if I can make a feature request* of Neptunepink which will allow me to get rid of some of the computercraft as well.
*
For those interested, the request is to do with the item shifter. There is a mode which will transfer a precise amount of stuff into any slot of an inventory. I would like it if there was a way to make sure that there was absolutely nothing in the slot before it would attempt to refill it again. Say you are shifting exactly 8 items. I want there to only ever exist in the slot, 8 items or 0 items (I was automating the mixer by the way). I used open peripherals to do all the checking.
First of all: sub-mods? Not a term that I'd like to use, personally. Some of those "sub-mods" add a lot of content. Also, what's the point of a modpack if you aren't going to explore new avenues? If you just stick with the old standards, such as BC, IC2, etc, there isn't much room for growth. And there won't be any room for innovation. Saying that a mod will be left out simply because it tries to do something new is a, well, non-accurate statement.
It quadruples some ore.
They seem kinda useless these days, actually. The only people who need them are the people who don't get how Fluiducts work now.
What is Witchery, MPA, AE, and Blood Magic "sub-" to? AE and Blood Magic are Bigger than and nearly as big as Thaumcraft, respectively. Witchery is growing quickly. All of the mods you listed here but Modular Power Addons would be useful on their own.
I get the impression you didn't mean to be insulting to mod authors here, but I just watched you mildly offend about 6 people.
Factorization is great but it's built around a different power scale than a lot of other mods. It's really idea for a very restricted, ForgeCraft 3 modpack. It shines there. It's also the mod with a very, very good and non-linear ore processing pipeline. You can get exactly as much as you can tolerate, and you can use it to boost ores literally the first night of the game.
You don't really know about these mods, do you?
Forestry works without BC and adds much more content,
Calling AE, Witchery, Blood Magic with a submod word near them is plainy wrong, AE is everywhere, Blood Magic is nearly as big as TC4 and very popular, Witchery is getting there. MPA can be classified as "Submod", but it adds tons of content and is popular as MPS.
About FZ?
My opinion is that is a very unique mod, the feel is pretty good too.
Is it hard? Maybe. If you pay attention and get out from your confort zone, I am sure you can learn 95% of the mod in less than a week.
well forestry does still work without buildcraft in that TE can still fuel MJ through its conduits... to make those multifarms but if TE really ditches MJ support then... theres no where else it can go but I think Sengir can do it and fix it up change it patch it and make it RF compatible :O, AE will still stay heck... even though clearly im still studying the mod its fun once you get the MAC going it makes the crafting bungle a bit easier, but sad as it maybe I fail hard at factorization... even though there are mod spotlights I still have no idea how the router works even on a simple barrel based sorting setup... plus the dark iron doesnt even make it "cheap" despite its now an ore gen
matpower-
I said 'submods and standalones'. meaning they are both highly compatible and expand other mods, or they work well and seem to have enough functionality to be the only mod of their type in a pack. It was an endorsement of versatility, not an indictment of functionality. The others seem to work better with compatibility with other mods, because they overproduce or are just a pain without other mod functionality, and MPA refers to 'Modular Power Armor' in this case.
It's weird that two people would both ignore half a sentence just to take offense, and that one of them is a moderator. If you want to argue my conclusions, more power to you, but please don't try to mangle my comments just to score points off me.
I said 'submods and standalones'. meaning they are both highly compatible and expand other mods, or they work well and seem to have enough functionality to be the only mod of their type in a pack. It was an endorsement of versatility, not an indictment of functionality. The others seem to work better with compatibility with other mods, because they overproduce or are just a pain without other mod functionality, and MPA refers to 'Modular Power Armor' in this case.
It's weird that two people would both ignore half a sentence just to take offense, and that one of them is a moderator. If you want to argue my conclusions, more power to you, but please don't try to mangle my comments just to score points off me.
@Algester-
basically Forestry can accept most types of piped stuff. Extra Utilities conduits work well, and I even have one setup where I am using ancient warfare couriers to keep the machines supplied and emptied.
With the sole exception of the quarry, BC is becoming more and more irrelevant, as are most transportation mods that 'move entities' instead of simply transferring inventories. Neatness counts. Many modders are now agreeing that as cool as thousands of spawned entities my look, the lag effects on big systems are too pronounced, especially once MC introduced droppers and hoppers.
basically Forestry can accept most types of piped stuff. Extra Utilities conduits work well, and I even have one setup where I am using ancient warfare couriers to keep the machines supplied and emptied.
With the sole exception of the quarry, BC is becoming more and more irrelevant, as are most transportation mods that 'move entities' instead of simply transferring inventories. Neatness counts. Many modders are now agreeing that as cool as thousands of spawned entities my look, the lag effects on big systems are too pronounced, especially once MC introduced droppers and hoppers.
Correct name for "MPA" is MPS(Modular Power Suits) or MMPS([MachineMuse] Modular Power Suits) btw.
Huh, I never wanted to mangle your comments just to score points off me. I think your definition of "submod/standalones" isn't the same as mine.
Also you ignore my sentences too, about (the main topic of this thread) FZ. That was pretty sad :/
A funny thing about 1.6 era is how the oldest mods(BC and IC2 for example) are taking crazy directions or slowly becoming more and more underused.
I think BC won't be there for the 1.7 (or 1.8) era. Most of the features were replaced and it is now just standing there, alone nowadays...