Enchanting Plus Successor - Suggestion Thread

[Mero]

You see, I have the exact opposite viewpoint...

Grinding xp is the single most boring task in the entire game. It is nothing more than sitting at a mob farm killing nearly dead mobs until your experience bar hits the requisite number. This is, to me, the quintessential headdesk.

Sure, grinding xp is effectively free once you get it set up, but it is such a mind-numbingly boring and pointless grind that I cannot bring myself to do it. Thus, in my opinion, the xp system is inherently and irrevocably flawed. Quite bluntly, it is a vanilla mechanic I would just as soon see vanish.

I can completely agree with this.
I don't have a problem with xp in general and even enchanting, but the gaining of xp really is trivial and boring.

The very first spawner I find, of any type, is turned into an xp farm. It might not be the be all end all of xp farms, but it will last me until I make something different.

This 1.6.4 world I set up my base in an enchanted forest. I just made an xp farm out of a spider infested great wood spawner.

It really is simple to make a very basic xp farm out of any spawner and then it is just spending time siting in front of it.

 

[UberWaffe]

Grinding xp is the single most boring task in the entire game. It is nothing more than sitting at a mob farm killing nearly dead mobs until your experience bar hits the requisite number. This is, to me, the quintessential headdesk.

I can completely agree with this.
I don't have a problem with xp in general and even enchanting, but the gaining of xp really is trivial and boring.

I will concede that farming XP is more boring and pointless as having to mine several stacks of redstone or lapis or what-have-you.
But I never farm XP. I usually get enough by smelting, mining, killing, etc. I.e. by just playing.

Again, I concede that I am probably not the average player.

So I got to thinking a bit ([Tongue-in-cheek]Oh, being bigoted and ranting about how the whole world should rotate around me did cross my mind. It is only proper after all.[Tongue-in-cheek]), and it hurt for the first few minutes.
But then I had this little light-bulb thing appear. Promptly smashing it to pieces yielded an idea.

High material cost results is monotone gameplay. High XP cost results in monotone gameplay. So what can we make the player do that is not monotone?
So why not make it enchantments cheaper in XP cost, but make the crafting of the "enchantment unlocker blocks" only possible under very special circumstances?

Essentially, taking your E++/E# (<- heh, get it?) table out for a walk to teach it new things.
For example, to unlock Sharpness you have a simple gold-sword statue. Initially, it unlocks only Sharpness II if placed nearby. (All level I enchants unlocked by default).

For Sharpness III and IV, you need to take an E# table up above y>150, have a clear view of the sky, and it has to be midnight. You then stick the sword-statue in the crafting table, and enchant it with some XP (not a lot), and it will now unlock Sharpness III and IV if placed near the table, even if you take both back home (I.e. you don't have to stay in the sky, you just perform the upgrade enchantment there).

For the Sharpness V, you'd have to take that enchanted statue and do the same, but below y<30, with a clear view of a full moon. After adding a diamond blade to the statue. Or whatnot.

The special circumstances need not be overly complex. Whatever is easy enough to code. Just need to be diverse enough to require the player to make some effort to get. (It is a one-time requirement per booster after all, so it doesn't need to be overly easy.)

I would be happy with a system like that.

The key being, one time effort with less monotone per use.

 

[arnHH]

I love using the current E+, but at the same time think it is a little bit op. Whenever somebody has an E+ table, he goes straight for the highest possible enchantments. With vanilla you are an apprentice, with E+ you are a master wizard. Where are the steps in between?

What I like to see in a new version:

• You have to learn/earn your enchantments. You need to have an enchanted book or an enchanted item with the desired kind to get a higher level enchantment. Book or item will be used/lost when you do the enchantment. If you never found an item with the desired enchantment type or could not get it through vanilla enchants (level 1 would be enough), then you can pay for it with material.
  
• Enchantments are more expensive for higher levels. Getting level 1 Protection may be rather cheap, but level 2 will cost you as much as level 1 plus something, level 3 costs the combined price of level 1 and 2 plus something, and so on. The cost for each level is the cost of the previous level plus something.
  
• You can lower the cost when you place one or more items with enchantments into the gui. For example, getting level 3 Protection costs you a lot of experience … or with a level 1 Protection book somewhat less. Or you add one level 1 Protection book and a level 2 Protection book it cost you only a small amount of exp. You don not have a level 2 Protection book but three level 1 books? Use them instead: one book for the cost of level 1 plus two books for the cost of level 2. The rest is paid with your exp or, if you do not have the exp with some material (e. g. obsidian).
• You cannot go straight to the highest enchantment level. You have to go through each lower level first. This should be related to the player doing the enchantment, so the E+ table will remember if the player successfully created Protection 3 before he can get Protection 4.
• Book shelves are not required for higher levels, but they will lower the costs for the desired levels.
• Potions might also lower enchantment costs.

These rules will bring some usefulness to the many enchanted books and item you find in dungeons.

 

[zilvarwolf]

LOL. The one thing I'm getting out of this thread is that every single person needs their own enchanting mod to be happy

 

[Mero]

I will concede that farming XP is more boring and pointless as having to mine several stacks of redstone or lapis or what-have-you.
But I never farm XP. I usually get enough by smelting, mining, killing, etc. I.e. by just playing.

I do agree that farming XP isn't completely necessary, I do get lots of xp from other sources, but there are situations where I want more than just 30 levels.

Such as in my current world. As soon as I got the magic cloth research done I made the TC outfit. So in order to enchant all 3 pieces I either need 90 levels or I am stuck putting a couple of piddly low level worthless enchants on each of the pieces. Sure I could spend my next RL week running around looking for stuff to mine or cook up so I could put lvl 30 enchants on everything but I would rather spend the time at a simple xp trap getting the 30 levels for the 2 pieces I don't have enough xp for already, spending a fraction of the time.

Beyond that initial first set of enchants it's not really necessary to do many enchants all at once, unless you happen to want to enchant books to try to get a specific enchant. Which is really only necessary if you only have Vanilla Random enchanting.

And that is why I would like to see some type of enchanting system where you only have to do the initial discovery of any specific enchant and there after you can pick and chose.
No matter if that is by doing randoms to learn every enchant or some other type of research type mini-game to learn enchants which you can then cast as you want.

Anything would be better than vanilla random enchants. I would just prefer not to have something that just lets you have access to any and all enchants from the get-go. But then I also like to still play MC, even modded, as if you are a survivor starting out with nothing but the clothes on your back and little to no knowledge of more than a basic peon would have.

 

[Yusunoha]

LOL. The one thing I'm getting out of this thread is that every single person needs their own enchanting mod to be happy

what I get from this topic is that vanilla minecraft enchanting just really sucks dingdongs

 

[zilvarwolf]

what I get from this topic is that vanilla minecraft enchanting just really sucks dingdongs

Very much that. Vanilla enchanting is, essentially, the lowest common denominator of enchanting. Get something, sacrifice it in increasingly large amounts to get something totally random, and then repeat until satisfied.

It was the easy way out for Mojang, IMO. It provided great new content with a high enough cost of entry that it could be assumed you wouldn't have it Right Away, but no so far off that you'd never get it. (imagine if base enchanting tables required nether stars...I don't care how good you are, fighting a wither with just potions...no enchants. would be a very daunting prospect..even something as common as blaze rods would have probably slowed entry by a little while)

I think there are a lot of better ways to approach it, and I think a lot of mod makers are already on the right track. I enjoy exploring and digging and such, so it's easy for me to suggest a method that others might consider grindy or bad (my reagent idea), but I really could get behind almost any idea that eliminates the random factor, because all that is..is frustration in a bottle.

 

[Grydian2]

I would love a config (disable by default of course) that allows you to enchant things like dartcraft tools, ic2 tools, TiC tools, etc. Some people want OP cheaty fun

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Grinding xp is the single most boring task in the entire game. It is nothing more than sitting at a mob farm killing nearly dead mobs until your experience bar hits the requisite number. This is, to me, the quintessential headdesk..

I strongly agree with this, though its mostly bad vanilla design and Mojang effectively sticking their heads in the sand pretending mob-grinders don't exist.

Rather than better enchanting, how about better experience?

• Remove the artificial limit that prevents mobs from walking about when a player isn't near.
• Mobs always drop EXP/Worn Armour & Tools/common drops on death- regardless of who/what killed them.
• Rare drops always %chance of a drop regardless of who/what killed them
• And some kind of block vessel to store EXP.
  • basically like a specialist chest- could call it an urn or similar.
  • no GUI- empties EXP orbs when broken or on a redstone signal.
  • so no exp in direct item/liquid form
  • if you need to push it about, theres water streams.

Sounds better than the current grinders which don't kill mobs.

I'd rather build an auto-EXP store and mob-drop sorting system than sit with my coffee cup on my mouse manually punching mobs.​

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I strongly agree with this, though its mostly bad vanilla design and Mojang effectively sticking their heads in the sand pretending mob-grinders don't exist.

Rather than better enchanting, how about better experience?

• Remove the artificial limit that prevents mobs from walking about when a player isn't near.
• Mobs always drop EXP/Worn Armour & Tools/common drops on death- regardless of who/what killed them.
• Rare drops always %chance of a drop regardless of who/what killed them
• And some kind of block vessel to store EXP.
  • basically like a specialist chest- could call it an urn or similar.
  • no GUI- empties EXP orbs when broken or on a redstone signal.
  • so no exp in direct item/liquid form
  • if you need to push it about, theres water streams.

Sounds better than the current grinders which don't kill mobs.

I'd rather build an auto-EXP store and mob-drop sorting system than sit with my coffee cup on my mouse manually punching mobs.​

MFR's Grinders would like to introduce themselves. Granted, they don't drop the rare drops, but other than that, it's pretty much what you want, except the xp is in liquid form.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

MFR's Grinders would like to introduce themselves. Granted, they don't drop the rare drops, but other than that, it's pretty much what you want, except the xp is in liquid form.

Melee turtles also- but it doesn't fix the main problem
aside from relying on a single machine from a mod thats not in every pack, proper grinders are still crippled by Mojangs design.
I put my idea forward because its not my idea- I've played a different mod setup that uses something similar, and not only does it work it also feels like part of the game.

 

[Asyncronous]

Frey we should definitely add 2 things that I have read that i really like the idea of...

1. Ability to go classic mode
2. And definitely remove the silly XP to enchant and repair crappy stuffs

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Yeah- an EXP cost to rename and repair non-enchanted stuff is a little weird.

(the whole vanilla anvil mechanic is pretty whacked to be honest)​

 

[Freyjadono]

Seeing we don't touch vanilla items, would be silly. Also what would qualify as crappy items?

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[Mevansuto]

I think that it should require a small multiblock structure to actually enchant things. Like some sort of altar, then you should have to place items as a tribute around on pedestals. Then you must tap the altar with like a sword or a wand or something and then it would take the items though some fancy animation effect. Then the tool on the alter changes form slightly*. Although technically not enchanting, only one mod got it completely right. TiC comes a close second.

*Like in TiC.

 

[Rowlanm]

Hi,

I think that there could be a kind of multiblock structure that works at each stage say you have a basic enchanting table to enchant level 1 enchants and can add a enchanting pylon I guess to 2 sides to increase the level to say level 3 enchants (pylons to "channel the arcane energy") and maybe an orb made from watery things and fiery things to bring it to level 4 and a 3rd pylon with an ender eye kind of orb to allow level 5, they wouldn't have to be placed directly next to the table but could be placed in the peripherary that don't unlock so to speak but more increase the chance but not having them would give a say 30% chance of getting a higher level enchant and that 30 would be increased up to say 60% or 75%. You could then perhaps add a kind of analyst block maybe similar to the book on vanilla table that reacts to presence and will analyse you enchant and give an estimate of what you could get.

You could also add say items similar or the same to what is already listed above to decide what you can enchant, maybe instead of placing a block, place them on a kind of pedestal? Something that could have a little 3d rotating image of the item as if it was dropped? This could give say 2% 3% boost to that enchant appearing after the initial 5 or so limiting it to 15 total. Maybe also add a random chance of the items in the pedestal being destroyed not all at once but randomly 1 or more items are lost due to the powers being channeled overwhelming the quality of the item.
The pedestals could also be placed around a pylon linked to the main grid, they could only work over maybe 5 or 6 blocks distance and adding those could allow multiple enchants?

Also I would like to see mod support such as a kind of fortune effect on say an electric tree tap or a kind of in breaking on a mining drill that means it takes longer to lose charge, maybe even enchant stuff like a boat to be more resultant when hitting stuff or usable in lava (not without a price such as it could only last for a 1000 blocks in lava or so)
Also to be able to enchant stuff like TiC tools but would the prevent your from say putting lapis fortune 3 on a pick axe as well as traditional enchantment fortune 3, block it so that it is either or

Tl:dr: multiblock enchanting stations and mod support as well as unexpected enchantables

Thanks for reading

 

[Sgat8516]

So, please post here with any and every suggestion you guys have.

Configuration options + limits per item

I've seen many many server's who have left/redisabled EP simply because it was to powerful for the cost. If level requirements were increases proportionally (perhaps a config option to scale it from 0-500% increase?) would allow it to fit better into different types of servers. XP is rather easy to mass acquire with many mod packs (100 levels in a few min), and being able to choose just the specific enchants (rather than random enchanting with a 5-10% success rate for the ones you want, plus the extra materials needed to recraft items) eliminates the need for ever having to reenchant additional items.

Perhaps even including a material item for each tier (maybe, a diamond + levels for 2 enchants on an item, Nether star + levels for 3 enchants, ect), to make subsequent items more elaborate to construct.

 

[Freyjadono]

The legacy version already has a scaling option in the config.

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[CaerMaster]

A few general principles of what I'd like to see in a replacement for vanilla enchanting:
— There should be a process to learn or discover new enchantments. Relevant drops may be applicable here. For instance, studying blaze rods or ghast tears would yield clues to fire-related enchants, snow and ice might yield insights on fire resistance.
— You should be able to choose what enchantment (or multiple enchants) to apply, no luck-of-the-draw or wasted items
— You should be able to learn an enchantment by studying an already-enchanted item (or perhaps several of them)
— More study should yield higher levels of enchantments
— The system should never allow you to fall into the trap of creating an enchanted item that is too highly enchanted to repair. If you created it in the first place, you can repair it, you just have to pay the cost.
— The system shouldn't easily allow you to waste an enchanting book on an item that can't accept the enchant or on which the enchant won't do anything useful. Some of the valid/invalid combinations in vanilla enchanting are not obvious.
— Speaking of which, combining two Sharpness 1, Unbreaking 1 swords should always have a chance of yielding a Sharpness 2, Unbreaking 2 sword, instead of only either a Sharpness 1, Unbreaking 2 or Sharpness 2, Unbreaking 1.
— Higher quality items should be able to accept higher level enchants. You could put Sharpness 1 on a wooden sword, but if you want Sharpness 5, you need to start with something like steel, thaumium, or precious stone (diamond, ruby, sapphire). (Of course this principle would have to break a bit for bows since there IS only one bow.) Alternatively, putting a high-level enchant on a poor-quality item could work, but *severely* lower its durability.
— Obviously enchants should work on non-vanilla items where possible.
— It would be good if power tools and powered armor were eligible for some kind of "Frugal" enchant that would reduce power drain.
— Using applicable "material components" should reduce the XP cost of an enchant, but never down to zero.
— Whatever is used for enchanting items, building a better one should both enable access to higher level enchants, *and* reduce the cost of lower level ones. Almost any job is easier if you're using better tools. High-tier enchanting equipment could also have a small chance of "bonus" enchants — either an extra effect you weren't expecting, or one level higher than you intended.

 

[UberWaffe]

I recently saw another mod that adds the ability to enchant certain buildcraft blocks (notably, the quarry), resulting in various effect/changes.

Perhaps similar enchanting of some vanilla blocks could be allowed?

Ex: Furnace -> Efficiency increases burn time of fuel. Fire aspect increases smelt speed. Fortune gives a chance of smelting ore blocks into multiple ingots. Etc.

Enchanted blocks could still be mod blocks (I.e. the vanilla block gets converted to a mod block upon first enchant). That way you can still leave vanilla blocks unmodified, but can re-use things like models (if any) and textures.

More possibilities:
Wooden Door -> Protection increases resistance against zombie attacks.
Wool -> Feather falling causes you to act as if you had feather falling on your boots (stacks with an feather falling enchant you may have) if you fall upon it.
Piston -> Knockback causes piston to act more like a cannon, launching a pushed block some distance, as opposed to just pushing it one block. Silk touch converts it into a sticky piston. Sharpness causes it to do damage to mobs it pushes.
Farmland -> Efficiency gives increased growth rate for crops. Protection prevents farmland from reverting to dirt by jumping/stomping.
Lava -> Unbreaking 3 (or higher if modded), flows from this lava source block turns to obsidian when exposed to water instead of cobble.

Etc.

Lots of possibilities.