Enchanting Plus Successor - Suggestion Thread
- Thread starter Freyjadono
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I want enchanting to be based on something you do or work for rather than just random chance. Both Dartcraft and TiC have elements of enchanting done right to me, in a way that feels interesting and flavorful rather than just 'get 30 levels, pray'. I think both have problems in not using experience as a fuel for the process, but the way they ask you to imbue stuff into the tools in order to get an effect is a positive step in the right direction.
I could probably get behind an enchanting system that allowed you to craft and use items specifically designed to focus your enchanting efforts into a specific enchant. Something like...craft 2 gunpowder with some gravel (or cobble) to get a coarse whetstone. Putting that in a slot in the enchanting table (one of 4 or 5 slots, I guess), would let you choose Sharpness I to add, using xp as normal. The whetstone could have, oh, 30 uses, and progressively better whetstones require progressively better materials until you get to a diamond stone (or nether stone?
), in order to get Sharpness V.
You wouldn't have to any new materials to the game. Maybe code in some equivalent items in case of mods, but I'm thinking existing materials could be used.
In this fashion, enchanting gets better (you can pick). You get a cost for the ability (experience, material, crafting time). But the cost is manageable and provides a (probably) long term gain.
I could probably get behind an enchanting system that allowed you to craft and use items specifically designed to focus your enchanting efforts into a specific enchant. Something like...craft 2 gunpowder with some gravel (or cobble) to get a coarse whetstone. Putting that in a slot in the enchanting table (one of 4 or 5 slots, I guess), would let you choose Sharpness I to add, using xp as normal. The whetstone could have, oh, 30 uses, and progressively better whetstones require progressively better materials until you get to a diamond stone (or nether stone?
), in order to get Sharpness V.You wouldn't have to any new materials to the game. Maybe code in some equivalent items in case of mods, but I'm thinking existing materials could be used.
In this fashion, enchanting gets better (you can pick). You get a cost for the ability (experience, material, crafting time). But the cost is manageable and provides a (probably) long term gain.
I could probably get behind an enchanting system that allowed you to craft and use items specifically designed to focus your enchanting efforts into a specific enchant. Something like...craft 2 gunpowder with some gravel (or cobble) to get a coarse whetstone. Putting that in a slot in the enchanting table (one of 4 or 5 slots, I guess), would let you choose Sharpness I to add, using xp as normal. The whetstone could have, oh, 30 uses, and progressively better whetstones require progressively better materials until you get to a diamond stone (or nether stone?
I do like the idea of using an item to influence the enchantment.
Pros i'd like to see carried on from it's current interation:
thats my 2cobble
- Enchanting damaged items.
- Some way to incrementally enchant. Not sure it should be the way it is currently, but i do like being able to put on say efficiency 3 and then update it to 5 later.
- Reasonable repair costs
- Configurable multipliers and configurations for cost
- Disenchanting items (but not with any kind of gain, just the ability to strip enchants from items)
thats my 2cobble
I'll build off the above, which are all good suggestions to be considered.
I definitely like the idea of item consumption for specific enchants, but instead of a multi-use item, I think the opposite direction may be better. In other words, you need X of a certain item to place a level X enchant on an item, and you need the X-1 level enchant on the item already; such that to put Fortune 3 on a pick, you need 3 of the required item and the Fortune 2 enchant already on the item, so it takes a total of 6 of said item if you want to jump straight to Fortune 3 from a non-Fortune pick. There could (should?) also be an XP cost associated with this.
I definitely like the idea of item consumption for specific enchants, but instead of a multi-use item, I think the opposite direction may be better. In other words, you need X of a certain item to place a level X enchant on an item, and you need the X-1 level enchant on the item already; such that to put Fortune 3 on a pick, you need 3 of the required item and the Fortune 2 enchant already on the item, so it takes a total of 6 of said item if you want to jump straight to Fortune 3 from a non-Fortune pick. There could (should?) also be an XP cost associated with this.
I'd like to add my support for the suggestions so far, both the "upgrading your enchanting table" approach and the suggestion to keep current E-Plus functionality.
On the "Upgrading your enchanting table" I'd like to see the items being placable blocks near the enchanting table that boost it, exactly like how bookcases function currently.
I just think it looks much more aesthetically pleasing to have a bunch of blocks 'working together' as opposed to a single block with items in upgrade slots.
(And yes, I realise it would be much more work. But I'd still love to see it.)
For example, taking the whetstone example, instead of it being a item placed in a slot, it would be a grindstone looking block that is placed nearby, perhaps even changing its model and texture slightly as it is upgraded through the various tiers.
Essentially, replacing the bookcases with special blocks that unlock specific enchants rather than raising the maximum enchant level.
I'd rather make the enchantments cost more XP to start off with, and nearby bookcases reduce the cost.
Or for another example, a pillar of bones unlocks Smite I. Upgrading it with a wither skull unlocks Smite 2. Socketing emeralds into the wither skulls eyes unlocks Smite 3, etc.
Or placing an gold lined anvil nearby unlocks the enchantings table's ability to repair using XP. Further upgrading the anvil will slightly reduce repair XP cost. Etc.
I don't see a need to make the items/blocks wear out. You are already paying for enchants using XP, more sinks for physical resources is not really needed.
One more suggestion. For enchanted books, I'd treat them as discount voucher. If you place a "Sharpness V" book into the table, and the table has a nearby upgrade allowing it to enchant "Sharpness V", then the player can enchant "Sharpness V" unto the target item for only a fraction of its normal cost.
Because, face it, either you had to get lucky and find the said book, or you already paid the full XP price for the enchant previously.
Keep up the epicness of E-Plus!
On the "Upgrading your enchanting table" I'd like to see the items being placable blocks near the enchanting table that boost it, exactly like how bookcases function currently.
I just think it looks much more aesthetically pleasing to have a bunch of blocks 'working together' as opposed to a single block with items in upgrade slots.
(And yes, I realise it would be much more work. But I'd still love to see it.
)For example, taking the whetstone example, instead of it being a item placed in a slot, it would be a grindstone looking block that is placed nearby, perhaps even changing its model and texture slightly as it is upgraded through the various tiers.
Essentially, replacing the bookcases with special blocks that unlock specific enchants rather than raising the maximum enchant level.
I'd rather make the enchantments cost more XP to start off with, and nearby bookcases reduce the cost.
Or for another example, a pillar of bones unlocks Smite I. Upgrading it with a wither skull unlocks Smite 2. Socketing emeralds into the wither skulls eyes unlocks Smite 3, etc.
Or placing an gold lined anvil nearby unlocks the enchantings table's ability to repair using XP. Further upgrading the anvil will slightly reduce repair XP cost. Etc.
I don't see a need to make the items/blocks wear out. You are already paying for enchants using XP, more sinks for physical resources is not really needed.
One more suggestion. For enchanted books, I'd treat them as discount voucher. If you place a "Sharpness V" book into the table, and the table has a nearby upgrade allowing it to enchant "Sharpness V", then the player can enchant "Sharpness V" unto the target item for only a fraction of its normal cost.
Because, face it, either you had to get lucky and find the said book, or you already paid the full XP price for the enchant previously.
Keep up the epicness of E-Plus!
Honestly I really love Enchanting Plus in its current functional form, can we just.. stick with that? It is honestly perfect right now.
I always thought enchanting should be a mix between random and picking what you want.
I think you should have to do random enchants to learn what a specific enchantment is and then once you learn it, you can always pick that learned enchant.
Each enchantment should have an xp level attached to it. When you enchant something you should be able to put a mix of random and learned enchants on an item. Randoms of course costing much more.
From a RP view.
You read a book that describes the process to enchant something, bit doesn't state what it actually is, so it is just a random enchantment. After casting it you now know what it does and how to cast it again.
I don't think pumping 30 levels should automatically give to highest tier enchants, there should be some discovery in the process.
I think you should have to do random enchants to learn what a specific enchantment is and then once you learn it, you can always pick that learned enchant.
Each enchantment should have an xp level attached to it. When you enchant something you should be able to put a mix of random and learned enchants on an item. Randoms of course costing much more.
From a RP view.
You read a book that describes the process to enchant something, bit doesn't state what it actually is, so it is just a random enchantment. After casting it you now know what it does and how to cast it again.
I don't think pumping 30 levels should automatically give to highest tier enchants, there should be some discovery in the process.
And for players wanting E+ to work like now, maybe add in a configuration file for a ClassicMode=true so it will make E+ work like how it is now?
For the record, I'm liking the suggestions that are being pitched.
Had to come here to cross post and make sure this gets seen:
I agree with the above poster, it doesn't really "need" anything more then what it already does. Its good that it is a simple drop in mod that does one thing and does it well without any extra "baggage"
The GUI could use a little love, but beyond that I can't think of any additional features it really needs.
EDIT: If you really must toy with it might I suggest that you instead start a different mod so that this one remains unchanged?
You seem to be liking the idea of a DC/TiC type system of putting enchants on things, but really the core mechanic of Better Enchantments and Enchantment Plus to me was always that it used the "Vanilla" resource (Levels) and simply let you pick your vanilla enchants rather then "Guess and hope for the best".
So, why not start a second mod, built from the ground up with the ideas presented in that other thread, and leave this one alone.. consider it "Done" and "Working as intended" only to be updated to fix version changes in MC and or any anomalous bugs that crop up.
IE.. Maintain Enchanting Plus in its current form but make a second mod with these other ideas so people have options. (and please dont call it enchanting plus 2) as people will think "2 is better so we gotta have the 2nd version" Call it enchanting evolved or some such...
I agree with the above poster, it doesn't really "need" anything more then what it already does. Its good that it is a simple drop in mod that does one thing and does it well without any extra "baggage"
The GUI could use a little love, but beyond that I can't think of any additional features it really needs.
EDIT: If you really must toy with it might I suggest that you instead start a different mod so that this one remains unchanged?
You seem to be liking the idea of a DC/TiC type system of putting enchants on things, but really the core mechanic of Better Enchantments and Enchantment Plus to me was always that it used the "Vanilla" resource (Levels) and simply let you pick your vanilla enchants rather then "Guess and hope for the best".
So, why not start a second mod, built from the ground up with the ideas presented in that other thread, and leave this one alone.. consider it "Done" and "Working as intended" only to be updated to fix version changes in MC and or any anomalous bugs that crop up.
IE.. Maintain Enchanting Plus in its current form but make a second mod with these other ideas so people have options. (and please dont call it enchanting plus 2) as people will think "2 is better so we gotta have the 2nd version" Call it enchanting evolved or some such...
The suggestions are for a new mod not for Enchanting Plus itself. And yes, the name will be a lot different.
I'd also like to see you add a mechanic which increases the chance of a certain type of enchant, but doesn't make it a sure bet. Like the focus (focii?) of the MFR laser ... you can heavily weight the outcome, but you still need some luck.
You could also include a research/progression system which unlocks the higher level enchants or steadily improves the probability. Something for us to work towards ....
You could also include a research/progression system which unlocks the higher level enchants or steadily improves the probability. Something for us to work towards ....
what I always hate about the vanilla enchanting/repairing is that it takes levels from you, not experience. for example if you're level 80 and need to use 10 levels for an enchant/repair. that's a ridiculous amount of experience when compared to enchanting/repairing when you're just level 10. it's pretty much a crime if you get more then 30 levels, and I hate that. I'd rather like it to see that enchanting/repairing costs are based on the amount of experience that you have, and not the levels. now I know this will probably be quite hard. an easy way out would be a block where you can store your experience in, and take out a certain amount of experience to reach a certain level.
I also always hated how you had to place bookshelves physically around the table for getting higher enchantings... I'd like it if there was an option to for example place bookshelves into the new enchanting table instead of having to place them in the world. maybe with that you could make it that the bookshelves (or just books) are actually used as some sort of fuel for the enchanting table... but to be honest that does sound kind of weird.
the way Thaumcraft does enchanting now is also quite interesting, it requires items and experience to get a certain enchant, and it starts out with the lowest level of enchant, and you need to keep enchanting it over and over to get the higher level of enchant, with each higher level of enchant having a higher price for enchanting
I also always hated how you had to place bookshelves physically around the table for getting higher enchantings... I'd like it if there was an option to for example place bookshelves into the new enchanting table instead of having to place them in the world. maybe with that you could make it that the bookshelves (or just books) are actually used as some sort of fuel for the enchanting table... but to be honest that does sound kind of weird.
the way Thaumcraft does enchanting now is also quite interesting, it requires items and experience to get a certain enchant, and it starts out with the lowest level of enchant, and you need to keep enchanting it over and over to get the higher level of enchant, with each higher level of enchant having a higher price for enchanting
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
Keep the books around the table, not in it- as its one of the few multiple block systems left in the game.
As for controlling enchants?
If an enchant isnt valid for that tool, then you won't be able to spend the exp. (so you can't put smite on shears)
In terms of added gameplay; you start out basic, and progressively upgrade your enchanting table(s).
As for controlling enchants?
Well bookshelves work in a 5x5x2 around the table right?
This doesn't mean triple/quad enchants are out- thats what books & the anvil is for.- So the blocks in a 5x5x2 immediately below the table can focus the enchantment.
- Say each certain block makes it's enchant 4% more likely to come up- so 25 blocks is a guarantee of that enchant.
- Note this covers a 50 block volume, so you can have them all hidden or all visible.
- Or use all 50 to guarantee a double enchant
- So if you had 25 blocks of obsidian- you'll only get unbreaking.
- 25 obsidian and 25 redstone block- you'll get unbreaking and efficiency.
- Balancing point- more powerful enchants require rarer blocks (Silk touch= endstone)
If an enchant isnt valid for that tool, then you won't be able to spend the exp. (so you can't put smite on shears)
In terms of added gameplay; you start out basic, and progressively upgrade your enchanting table(s).
Also do you have an enchanting library- or a mechanism to swap the blocks over?
Full List- I guess this could make a config file with block IDs/enchant IDs for mod enchants.
Unbreaking= Obsidian
Efficiency= Redstone block
Fortune= Lapis Ore
Silk Touch= Endstone
Sharpness= Quartz Block
Fire Aspect= Fire (yes- actual fire, netherrack might be useful here)
Smite= Glowstone
KnockBack= Piston
Bane=Cobweb
Looting=Emerald Block
Power= Gold Block
Punch= Piston
Flame= Fire
Infinity= Lapis Block
Protection= Mossy Cobble
B. Protec= TnT (alternate= Soulsand, as every server has TnT disabled)
F. Protec= Netherbrick
P. Protection= Iron Bars
Feather Falling= Cobweb
Aqua Affinity= Water
Respiration =Pumpkin (pumpkin diving helms!)
Efficiency= Redstone block
Fortune= Lapis Ore
Silk Touch= Endstone
Sharpness= Quartz Block
Fire Aspect= Fire (yes- actual fire, netherrack might be useful here)
Smite= Glowstone
KnockBack= Piston
Bane=Cobweb
Looting=Emerald Block
Power= Gold Block
Punch= Piston
Flame= Fire
Infinity= Lapis Block
Protection= Mossy Cobble
B. Protec= TnT (alternate= Soulsand, as every server has TnT disabled)
F. Protec= Netherbrick
P. Protection= Iron Bars
Feather Falling= Cobweb
Aqua Affinity= Water
Respiration =Pumpkin (pumpkin diving helms!)
I do believe this is a post for suggestions with regards to a successor for E+ and therefore E+ isn't going to be changed if I am not mistaken?
I never enjoyed the vanilla enchanting mechanic of Minecraft. I did not like the RNG deciding if I just wasted a tool or not.
Tinker's Construct does an amazing job of an 'enchantment' system which functions perfectly... for weapons and tools. Not so much for armor, of course.
If Tinkers Construct could get actual armor out, that would be pretty amazing. Failing that, Modular Powersuits, powerful though it might be, is a solution.
Thaumcraft 4 has a good enchanting mechanic where you can choose which enchants to apply to a given item. It's expensive in terms of resources, but it also gives you a consistent output.
Tinker's Construct does an amazing job of an 'enchantment' system which functions perfectly... for weapons and tools. Not so much for armor, of course.
If Tinkers Construct could get actual armor out, that would be pretty amazing. Failing that, Modular Powersuits, powerful though it might be, is a solution.
Thaumcraft 4 has a good enchanting mechanic where you can choose which enchants to apply to a given item. It's expensive in terms of resources, but it also gives you a consistent output.
but I heard mDiyo iis actually now working on the armors for T construct (the api is already built with leather parts) but no one is still sure how it will be crafted (probably mDiyo knows) but I do think it has something to do with a tanning rack
As for enchanting... Progressive enchanting (based on exp/level) is a nice idea well stripping if people use MFR then they should have the disenchanting table, tiered item as a sacrifice... that could work?
Fully agree on this.
Pre-emptive apology for what might sound like a rant at you, but it is a rant about mod recipes in general.
[Rant]
(Clenching teeth)
I love Tinker's Construct, but I have to admit that I rather strongly dislike its 'enchanting' mechanic.
It is, in my opinion at least, upgrading, not enchanting. And frankly I am getting rather tired of the done-to-death-approach of just making everything expensive.
How many mods are out there that actually use XP? Five? Six?
Excluding mods that simply are merely for storing and retrieving it? One? Two?
How many mods are out there that have diamonds in their recipes? Hundreds?
Even in just their starting point recipes? Still several dozen?
...
(Breathing) (Medication) (Happy thoughts)
...
Yeah, please don't make it item based upgrading.
I'm fine with once-off upgrades to the enchanting table that might be on the somewhat expensive side, but even then only for the highest level enchants.
Low level enchants shouldn't be expensive to unlock.
The enchanting table itself already requires diamonds.
If you really want to make it more expensive, then please make it a config option for paying a diamond every time you want to open the GUI... or something.
[/Rant]
You see, I have the exact opposite viewpoint...
Grinding xp is the single most boring task in the entire game. It is nothing more than sitting at a mob farm killing nearly dead mobs until your experience bar hits the requisite number. This is, to me, the quintessential headdesk.
Sure, grinding xp is effectively free once you get it set up, but it is such a mind-numbingly boring and pointless grind that I cannot bring myself to do it. Thus, in my opinion, the xp system is inherently and irrevocably flawed. Quite bluntly, it is a vanilla mechanic I would just as soon see vanish.