EE3 Discussion/Speculation/Hype

[zooqooo]

Note: This is not a complaint thread, Pahimar is working hard and I look forward to a finished product that isn't rushed and a Pahimar who isn't annoyed with the fans.

I don't know about you guys, but I am pumped for EE3! Pahi posted a thread over on the minecraft forum about it and it was very neat and informative.

I've always been a big fan of EE and I even sort of liked the over-powered-ness of the mod. But the new additions in EE3 just seem awesome and well balanced. The removal of collectors and condensers is pretty obvious, but without condensers will you be able to set up a transmutation system with pipes? Also the addition of EMC pipes was in the works for a while, but doesn't seem like as big a deal without collectors. The exciting part of the new additons is his comments on EMC, saying:

The EMC system will remain, but it will be changed to accomodate new and more interesting mechanics

A transmutation system similiar to the Transmutation Tablet will exist, but is not ready to be disclosed at this time

He's also said that there'll be different kinds of EMC, my big speculation was how closely related to thaumcraft it'll be: I mean, it'd be pretty simple to build a transmutation system on top of the thaumcraft aspect system, it basically is what Pahimar described with different kinds of EMC. Is there any possibility of a mod crossover? Could it even work? Both mods are early enough in development that anything could happen but it is doubtful.

Another system teased in the thread was a "EE3 API" presumably it will give mod makers the opportunity to give EMC values to items introduced by their mods (transmuting dirt into gears?)

TL;DR EE3 is gonna rock, discuss any speculations you guys have, I'd love to hear it

 

[Dragonfel]

You should check out Direwolf20's youtube channel. He has featured some small parts of EE3's development build on his SMP Let's Play. Mostly just the Minium Stone and a glimpse at "red water". It appears we'll have to use this toxic water to produce some items or fuel transmutations.

 

[zooqooo]

I stay current on Dire and slow's stream and have seen the minium stone, which is pretty cool in some of its new powers (stone bricks, wood, etc.)

 

[Bnagers]

Based on the little info I know, I don't see the point of the EMC pipes yet. Buildcraft pipes and Redpower tubes have been transferring EMC for ages. Still, I'm very interest to see what happens in the mod. I'm running a Tekkit server again now with most of EE disabled - no condensors, collectors or transmutation table. People can still use the philosophers stone to turn coal and iron into red matter eventually though. It's good to be rid of the Mk3 noobs.

 

[Magicferret]

Based on the little info I know, I don't see the point of the EMC pipes yet. Buildcraft pipes and Redpower tubes have been transferring EMC for ages. Still, I'm very interest to see what happens in the mod. I'm running a Tekkit server again now with most of EE disabled - no condensors, collectors or transmutation table. People can still use the philosophers stone to turn coal and iron into red matter eventually though. It's good to be rid of the Mk3 noobs.

Yeah as long as there's some form of automatic transmutation there's no point when you can move EMC around in item form. If there's different types of EMC maybe there will be different condenser-like machines which transmute between a limited set of items. If re-balancing EE was up to me that is what I would do anyway, break up powerful machines like condensers into a few separate and very expensive ones that all need to work together to achieve the same objective. It's worked to make mods like RP2 or forestry for example great fun. No one machine is super powerful but with all of them and some intuition you can accomplish great things.

I can't wait anyway. Mostly cause I have an awful shortage of enderpearls!

 

[Bnagers]

I can't wait anyway. Mostly cause I have an awful shortage of enderpearls!

That wireless redstone is a killer.

 

[Dragonfel]

I like the idea of limiting the exchange process to items within families. Metal for metal, fuel for fuel, blocks for blocks. I've never been a fan of those freakish contraptions that harvest infinite EMC from wheat or milk buckets. EE shouldn't be a way to churn out diamonds from cobble generators. Anything that can be mass produced with no effort shouldn't let you produce rare materials. Cobble for stone bricks, sure, but not cobble for blazerods or diamonds.

 

[Bnagers]

I think a super simplified solution would be to let you transmute down but not up so high value items can make lots of lower value items, but not the other way around.

 

[zooqooo]

I think a super simplified solution would be to let you transmute down but not up so high value items can make lots of lower value items, but not the other way around.

But mechanics-wise how would that work? What is the difference between a valuable item that's been made from cobble and a natural one? Also the mod is still equivalent exchange, and presumably there will still be a system to turn cobble into diamonds, just more balanced than previously

 

[Bnagers]

I'm saying you wouldn't be able to make diamonds from cobble. Or from anything else with an EMC value lower than diamond. You could change iron into tin or copper or cobble or wool, but not into gold or silver or diamond.

Right now a lot of people's main issue with EE is that it's used only to make diamond farms and so it gets disabled from many Tekkit servers. This is just an idea for keeping a lot of the good features whilst getting rid of the cheapness that people don't like. Just an idea.

 

[LazDude2012]

There already is. It's the old philosopher's stone recipe chain. You can already, with BuildCraft autocrafting tables and a bunch of Minium Stones, turn cobble into diamonds.

 

[aanthony3]

I believe Pahimar's current plan is to seven different "families" of EMC. Items can be transmuted within their own families without any penalty, but transmuting outside of an object's family will mean loosing some of the EMC. I'm pretty certain that you will always be able to transmute up ie iron to gold or cobble to diamond. Going in both directions is a fundamental aspect of EE. He is also planning on implementing some sort of research mechanic, no details have been disclosed yet but I believe it involves the calcinator in some way. Also for those interested EE3 is open source, for those of you who know java the code can be found here.

 

[arkangyl]

EE shouldn't be a way to churn out diamonds from cobble generators. Anything that can be mass produced with no effort shouldn't let you produce rare materials. Cobble for stone bricks, sure, but not cobble for blazerods or diamonds.

As someone who thoroughly broke more than one MC game with EE items, I agree it's imbalanced, but personally, if someone spends the time generating 8192 blocks of cobblestone, I say, let 'em have a diamond for their trouble.

 

[Bnagers]

Doesn't take much time to make a cobble gen and leave it running.

 

[Bibble]

I'd suspect that the EMC stuff is likely to work similar to the Thaumcraft stuff. Rather than having the destruction and creation in the same place, either small amounts of high value items (or large amounts of low-value items) are broken down, and their component parts are filtered into "templates" for new items.

This would also fit with the stuff I've read about there being different types of EMC. Also, I would really like to see a bank of tanks filled with different looking fluid-y type stuff that's dispensed into templates for useful items.


The main issue and advantage of EE is likely to remain, though. It makes the game easier by allowing you to take the stuff your gamestyle doesn't use, and turning it into the type it does. It goes with the principle of the mod, but it tends to take some of the challenge out of things.


I'd be quite interested to see a similar system to the TC research for "blueprints to matter". So you have to take apart a reasonable amount of an item before you have the ability to make it en masse, but there might be mid stages. investigating a single diamond might not let you make them, but you might be able to, inefficiently, use it's components to repair a diamond pick (unenchanted, obviously, until you understand the enchantments).

 

[Magicferret]

I'd suspect that the EMC stuff is likely to work similar to the Thaumcraft stuff. Rather than having the destruction and creation in the same place, either small amounts of high value items (or large amounts of low-value items) are broken down, and their component parts are filtered into "templates" for new items.

This would also fit with the stuff I've read about there being different types of EMC. Also, I would really like to see a bank of tanks filled with different looking fluid-y type stuff that's dispensed into templates for useful items.


The main issue and advantage of EE is likely to remain, though. It makes the game easier by allowing you to take the stuff your gamestyle doesn't use, and turning it into the type it does. It goes with the principle of the mod, but it tends to take some of the challenge out of things.


I'd be quite interested to see a similar system to the TC research for "blueprints to matter". So you have to take apart a reasonable amount of an item before you have the ability to make it en masse, but there might be mid stages. investigating a single diamond might not let you make them, but you might be able to, inefficiently, use it's components to repair a diamond pick (unenchanted, obviously, until you understand the enchantments).

Good post, I like your ideas. The red water certainly does hint at there being some nasty effects to the use of EE 'alchemy' like Thaumcraft. I think it's great that Pahimar can take some inspiration from Azanor's work, TC2 really did nail the magical, arcane feel. Magic mods need some good immersion I think, so it makes you feel like you're playing with dark powers rather than just game mechanics.

It's always going to have a potential for abuse though like you say. It's certainly a challenge for Pahimar to maintain that spirit while avoiding breaking the balance of other mods. At the same time though it smooths over the edges of a lot of large mods all demanding the same resources so it is an essential. Like I said the other day my enderpearls are torn between eyes of ender so I can go find more, autarchic gates, world anchors, ender chests, wireless redstone... god it's so frustrating, hurry up EE...

 

[Feronzed]

Pahimar is going to add new system which will be able to run trough all recipes and check for least efficient one (EMC wise), in other words: EMC will use least efficient recipes to make items/blocks, so if there are currently multiple ways to make powersuits, it will use recipe which costs most EMC, that way Pahi won't need to manually write in every single EMC value, he will be able to give most basic blocks EMC values and EE3 will work it's way around.

I don't know how will this work performance wise cause every time minecraft loads, at the end, EE3 will have to run trough all recipes and calculate a lot of things, so it's to expect longer game loading time.

Someone should really make NEI plugin, or it should be implemented into NEI so it shows EMC values when EMC system is done.

And if he wants to, he can make it so you can only transmute ores and gems into each other, so there's a way to avoid annoying cobblestone to diamonds.

 

[Bibble]

Pahimar is going to add new system which will be able to run trough all recipes and check for least efficient one (EMC wise), in other words: EMC will use least efficient recipes to make items/blocks, so if there are currently multiple ways to make powersuits, it will use recipe which costs most EMC, that way Pahi won't need to manually write in every single EMC value, he will be able to give most basic blocks EMC values and EE3 will work it's way around.

I don't know how will this work performance wise cause every time minecraft loads, at the end, EE3 will have to run trough all recipes and calculate a lot of things, so it's to expect longer game loading time.

Someone should really make NEI plugin, or it should be implemented into NEI so it shows EMC values when EMC system is done.

And if he wants to, he can make it so you can only transmute ores and gems into each other, so there's a way to avoid annoying cobblestone to diamonds.

Firstly, let me be the first to say congratulations, your necro-thread powers are unsurpassed by any else here (I'm aware that it's a semi-permanent discussion until EE3 release, but there are more up to date threads than november).

As a rough guess I'd say that it's unlikely to run each time at startup. It'll probably keep a track of when changes are made and recalculate (possibly the relevant info might even be included in FTB downloads). Running each time would be quite inefficient and sloppy, and contribute to the already long loading times, and I suspect that Pah wouldn't want to do that.

Plugins are almost a certainty at this point, particularly with NEI becoming the default recipe book, and EE3 being so widely anticipated. But it's not going to be here until the mod is ('cos there wouldn't be much point in that).

I think that your last point has merit, it's kind of a similar thing to splitting the matter/fuel in EE2, and it has already been said that there will possibly be different types of EMC.