Do players actually like emulated computers in minecraft?

[KirinDave]

So I have this itch to sit down and write an emulator for a minecraft mod. I love RP2's idea of including a historically relevant computer and making it appropriately difficult to build, but I really (really) dislike the state of licensing and the lack of progress on that mod.

I was looking over the universal electricity API and thinking to myself that that'd be a really neat target for a new control-centric mod. While I've never written a minecraft mod before, I write interpreters and emulators for fun and I've worked with the minecraft codebase and I'm a professional software engineer. I tell my friend this and he laughs, "Oh good. Another mod no one will like or use."

I dunno. He sort of has a point... I've only once seen RP2's computer in the wild. ComputerCraft is high end, but still way more common because it's so friendly (and radically inexpensive for what it is). I figured I'd open a discussion the subject. I'd love to see a PDP-8 simulator in minecraft and a mod to support that era's technology (reel-to-reel tapes and the like) and I think I know exactly how to write it. I'd love to have a very classic Lisp dialect to write redstone logic in. But I'd hate to write a mod that no one else in the world would want.

Maybe ComputerCraft, as magical and arbitrary as it is, is at the right level of granularity for Minecraft. Any thoughts?

 

[Evil Hamster]

If you could write an Apple 2e emulator I can play Lode Runner on... Loved that game

(and yes, I know it's been remade for other platforms)

 

[Abdiel]

Well, the first, most obvious question would be: if I have CC, what reason I have to use your computer system? RP answers that with (and I don't claim that's a good answer) "we won't let you interact with the Sortron otherwise".

I have my doubts about deliberately choosing a low-level or archaic language I could write about, but if you can't answer the first question, it's a moot point anyway.

 

[HeffronCM]

If you want to write the mod for the heck of it, go for it. Just expect anything you create to run with your computer to eventually be run by a MiscPeripherals-adapted Computer Craft computer. As far as the question of programming turtles / rp2 computers being a good source of gameplay content? I don't believe they are. I fully believe the only reason turtles get so much use is because they are close to free and super powerful, versatile, and simple to use. RP2 computers got popular for a while because frame quarries, but now that you can run them with CC computers they are pretty much only used by Sortron and Fortran enthusiasts.

So if you want a computer emulator that sees regular community use, you'll need to match the versatility and accessibility of turtles, which can basically play the whole game for you after a couple hours of mining and then downloading a bunch of scripts from the forums.

EDIT

Came back to say that I don't have a problem with anyone else using turtles. All of the preceding is the reason I find them distasteful and the reasons I think the computer emulators were ever popularly used. It's an infinitely customizable sandbox game, play with the toys you want and I'll play with the toys I want and we can both be happy.

 

[netmc]

With the two existing computer emulation mods for minecraft, you have the opposite ends of the spectrum. RP has a faithfully emulated processor and computing core that you can take many programs written for this CPU and run them directly in Minecraft with few or no changes. Heck, I've even seen some board postings on how to interact with it in assembly! Computercraft on the other hand is all about interacting with the minecraft environment and uses a rather high level language to do so. Even though the lua interface is utilized, most of the commands are specific to Minecraft, and would have no purpose on any other computer system.

These systems appeal to very different types of people. I respect what can be done with both. For me personally, I will likely never use computercraft or turtles. They just aren't my cup of tea. At some point, I want to set up a RP computer though and start learning how to use it.

Shortly after the new redpower was released, I saw a video where they had a RP computer connected to transposers and factorization packet stampers that could automatically create *ANY* crafting recipe. You could add new recipes through the program and tell it how to make the recipe, and it would make it without any other interaction. And the crafting build was recursive, so it would make any needed intermediate recipes required to make the item. (i.e. wood to planks, then planks to sticks) That is just plain awesome in my book.

So to answer your original question, I think people would use it. The real question is how can this interact with the minecraft enviornment? Can this interact with different features of an existing block or mod directly without using complicated redstone logic? That is where your emulator would really shine. The other less asked question is "Where is the pain point?" People will do the same thing they have always done unless a difficulty real or perceived is addressed. If you can address a pain point with the mod it will be a lot more successful than it would be otherwise.

 

[SReject]

I don't think there is space for another 'computer emulator'. BUT I do believe the skillset needed to run the current Redpower and CompCraft compies is a bit dated. I'd like to see ports(or atleast plugins) of those mods that allow for more, errr, modern(? not really what I want to express) languages. Something like javascript, perl, php, etc programmable 'computers' would be awesome, and with all the webdevs floating around, if coded correctly, I believe such a mod would be the next mod/plugin installed after Redpower/CC.

Possibly have different 'disks'(items in game - each with a different but equal valued recipe) to 'install' such languages on the redpower/CC computers.

 

[Ember Quill]

I don't think there is space for another 'computer emulator'. BUT I do believe the skillset needed to run the current Redpower and CompCraft compies is a bit dated. I'd like to see ports(or atleast plugins) of those mods that allow for more, errr, modern(? not really what I want to express) languages. Something like javascript, perl, php, etc programmable 'computers' would be awesome, and with all the webdevs floating around, if coded correctly, I believe such a mod would be the next mod/plugin installed after Redpower/CC.

To be fair, Lua (the language that ComputerCraft is based on) is still actively maintained and it's only about a year older than Javascript. And Perl is even older than Lua. So I'd hardly call it "dated," at least not compared to the other examples you gave.

 

[SReject]

To be fair, Lua (the language that ComputerCraft is based on) is still actively maintained and it's only about a year older than Javascript. And Perl is even older than Lua. So I'd hardly call it "dated," at least not compared to the other examples you gave.

Aye, I wasn't talking necessarily about the languages themselves but the skill sets. You'll find quite a few more people that know the languages I mentioned compared to Lua. Please note, I'm not complaining about it as the language for CompCraft, just stating that if another 'computer' mod was to be released, it'd find it's nitch with a more, err, popular(?) language

 

[Abdiel]

Computer languages aren't like human languages. When you know how to program (as in, express your ideas in a structured and algorithmical manner) in one language, learning another one is a matter of days, if not hours. At least to the degree when you can program a turtle to clear out a x*y*z area of space. If you don't know any programming, LUA is simple enough to start with.

 

[SReject]

Computer languages aren't like human languages. When you know how to program (as in, express your ideas in a structured and algorithmical manner) in one language, learning another one is a matter of days, if not hours. At least to the degree when you can program a turtle to clear out a x*y*z area of space. If you don't know any programming, LUA is simple enough to start with.

I know, I have a 4yr degree in IT & computer science. Though I'm great when it comes to computers; not so much when it comes to putting thoughts into words.

To get back on the subject at hand, as I stated above, I have nothing against LUA, or FORTH being CC and RP's driving scripting language. BUT IF another computer mod were to come out, I strongly believe it would find a place in the MC mod community by supporting a more currently popular language. I mean, there's literally 100s of 1000s of people that know javascript(not to be confused with java, but that's for another time).

 

[KirinDave]

Something like javascript, perl, php, etc programmable 'computers' would be awesome, and with all the webdevs floating around, if coded correctly, I believe such a mod would be the next mod/plugin installed after Redpower/CC.

Well Javascript would be super-easy with Rhino... Of course, Lua is more modern than every language you named.

Hum. So the main draw of the RP2 computer was the Sortron. Makes me a little sad... Forth is such a beautifully poignant language.

 

[Abdiel]

If you ever venture into this, I would like to stress the need for some kind of out of game programming ability. The main thing that's putting me off of Redpower isn't so much Forth, but the fact that I have to code in the tiny featureless Minecraft window, and can't use a proper code editor. CC does this well enough with pastebin and being able to run/test local files in SSP, but I would love a mod that would have a "upload your code file here" functionality.

 

[bwillb]

Forget computer emulators. Make a gameboy emulator in Minecraft

 

[SReject]

I would love a mod that would have a "upload your code file here" functionality.

I think this might lead to a security issue. I love the idea, but as an admin, i'd be weary to allow such a thing on a public server. If it ever happens, there'd better be a config option to disable it

 

[Abdiel]

I think this might lead to a security issue. I love the idea, but as an admin, i'd be weary to allow such a thing on a public server. If it ever happens, there'd better be a config option to disable it

I don't see where the issue is, as long as the code is only to be run on the in-game computer. Any code that could be malicious through bugs in the mod's code would be just as malicious if typed into the game manually.

(You could easily have a maximum file size restriction per file and per player if you're worried about space.)

 

[SReject]

Any code that could be malicious through bugs in the mod's code would be just as malicious if typed into the game manually.

I sort of agree with this, but the difference between pastebin and direct user uploads is that pastebin garrantees that what it sends out is valid text. Where as with a user, they could simply rename myvirus.exe to myscript.txt and there's no way the server would know until it's been downloaded.

I mean, Oracle still hasn't been able to fully patch the zero date exploit for Java. Now could you imagine giving a talented coder a direct way to upload to your server, knowing there's such an exploit?

 

[Ember Quill]

Well Javascript would be super-easy with Rhino...

Someone beat you to it. Using Rhino and everything. Admittedly, it doesn't add a programmable computer so much as it just allows you to use the Rhino JVM to manipulate the world.

Forth is such a beautifully poignant language.

After taking a college class on Intel x86 Assembly, I never want to lay eyes on a stack-based language ever again. Due to this admittedly ridiculous personal bias, I haven't even touched RP2 computers since they were released.

 

[budge]

Responding to the thread title, I do like Computercraft's computers. I have been able to take complex Redpower circuits and replace them with a single block, while allowing for additional features to be added as I think of them, without needing to re-organize or move a complicated circuit. For example, I have a small semi-automated cow breeder that uses a feed station with ejector and a computer. The computer's startup program prompts you to type the number of wheat to put into the feeder, and then pulses the ejector that many times. It's extremely simple, but the logic is all in one computer, rather than smattering of gates. Additionally, experimenting with the code was fun.

 

[SReject]

Someone beat you to it

...and I just orgasmed. nvm... requires bukkit...

 

[Ember Quill]

...and I just orgasmed. nvm... requires bukkit...

Unfortunately.

Sorry, another page made it sound like there was a non-bukkit version, but apparently I was misled.