Config Help for hard/balanced gameplay.

[Cocofang]

Hi people,

I have been tinkering with my mods for a while to make my own "modpack" which obviously isn't a pack but mroe of a colection of mods. Seeing the latest Forgecraft 3 video just increased my drive.

I'm trying to make it fair, challenging and highly compatible. Now I am runnign in a bit of trouble with a bunch of my configs. But firstly a quick mod overview:

Spoiler: Modlist

Forge Multipart
Project Red (with all World Gen disabled)
Buildcraft
Railcraft
IC2 newest experimental version.
Forestry (the latest version compatible with IC 2 experimental builds.
Thaucmraft 4
Thaumic Tinkerer
Tanslocators
Applied Energistics
Chargepads
Infinibows
FlatSigns
Switches
Obsidiplates
Ironchests
Magic Bees (sadly the config option are kidna limited. I wanted to turn down wax capsules to 3 for amgic wax aswell)
MFFS (Calcavia edition)
Bibliocraft
Bibliowoods Forestry
Cloudmaster (because those clouds are just too damn low)

Spoiler: Still pending

Archimedis ships (if not too many bugs I would use it)
Computercraft and MiscPeriphals (unsure)
Craftguide or NEI (probably NEI)

Extra Bees. (I like the Bees part. Woodworker ist great. Fencegates and custom fences/doors for Vanilla woos are great. The machines also are great MJ consumers! The problem is the tree part is lacking. Lumbermill make planks > charcoal once more, mulch become really easy, a few of its things crashed my NEI. All its trees are boring (their prodcuts as well as their woodcolour and there are way too many of them. Its own woods also isn't supported by bibliocraft.)

Modular powersuits. (But I guess I could put it in, even though I think its recipes could need a few nerfs )

Steve's Carts. I am not sure how much more powerful their automated farms are compared to thaumcraft farms. If they aren't that much stronger I feel like I could take it into my mod list.

Twilight Forest and Galacticraft. Just some additional stuff to do.

Wireless Redstone CBE. (Useful. I don't think sending a redstone signal is that bad. Especially considering that it requires quite a bit of items.)

Enhanced Portals (Tending towards a NO. While alot weaker than Mystcraft it is still instant transportation. On the other hand it is useful for pretty building.)

Spoiler: Biome Mod of my choice

I have a hard time deciding what mod to use here.

Better World Gen 4 and Biomes o'plenty kinda have problems with TC4 biomes.

BWG4 has one of the smoothes world gens out there. And it runs completely on vanilla materials. Having trouble using it with TC4 though.

BoP has amazing features (including respawning of an enderdragon and a sky dimension). It also adds alot of new trees. That is a downside to me, as Iitdevalues Forestry breeding, gives a load of sapling without DNA values and their leaves don't recolour udner the influence of taint.

Highlands while not as pretty and smooth as either of the previous two has the benefit of using vanilla woods and leaves for its custom trees (via a config option)

I am currently leanign toward BoP.

Now to the configs I have specific questions on:

Spoiler: Forestry Config

I tried to play with the "Hard" config. That lead to a few problems. The biogas engine is pretty much useless unless run with biomass. e.g. burning 16 seed oil in a biogas engine on a squeezer containing chestnuts basically yielded me only around 8 seed oil capsules. That is somethign I found a bit silly. Additonally i don't like having these 1 block machines require more power than a default quarry. I also don't want to make weaker engine types useless/only useful if used in a big bunch. I also don'tlike reducing the output of the tin can recipe, as IC2 is present.

I have been experimenting with a custom difficulty config for a bit it is pretty close to the NORMAL one, with a few minor changes. I also did some minor changes to the other forestry configs (like rarer dungeon loot), but nothing special.

Spoiler: Applied Energistics

I want to make it more lategame. thus I already bumped its power requirements to at least x5 (but thinking about 10x).

But the config has alot of other options, thhat I am unsure about. And with the Tier Power option I don#t even know what it does.

Spoiler: IC2 experimental

I am using this one for my tin and copper generation. I also disabled the tin buckets. Will disable Vanilla Enderchests. unsure on other changes.

Spoiler: ModularPowerSuit

Perhaps nerfing it a bit. Has a lot of options to nerf its energy useage.

I would love for some people that are experienced with these types of settings or especially experienced with certain mods to comment. I am also open for comments on configs and mods that I didn't specially asked for help about. Hell even suggestion for mods to add.

edit: After finding the newest Forestry update, it is awesome to see that it changed to IC 2 experimental. Witht he changes to fuel it also seems like the Biogad engine is supposed to be inefficient (i.e. not even able to squeeze enough nuts to sustain itself) unless you run it with biomass. or am I mistaken and failed to consider the heatup time? But with tthe new fuel change the Input Multiplier of 4x in the hard config would be far to high. That leads to another question. Are there different squeezer speeds for everything? Walnuts definitlvy take longer than honeydrops. If there is a differencce between all the seeds/nuts and cherries might it be that Chestnuts aren't the best at giving the most seedoil per MJ?

 

[Omicron]

Forestry's recipe work times aren't published, you'd have to look into the code to find them. That said, I doubt there are significant time differences between most items. For example on the centrifuge, all combs are the same but silky propolis as a special item is much faster. It's probably only honeydrops that are faster in the squeezer because it's an unusual item (and tbh, I haven't even noticed any obvious speed differences myself ingame).

Your best bet without a codedive is a stack of each squeezable resource, and a stopwatch.

Regarding the rest of your post - you explain what you are trying to do, but you kind of forget to ask any questions. What exactly do you want to know?

 

[Cocofang]

What I want is a bit of help with those configs. I am trying to make it balanced, as in nothing I add is completely useless nor too easy. Because i guess there already are afew people with more experience regarding this.

but first I've got to report two forestry bugs I've found, while playing around witht he configs

 

[SatanicSanta]

Add Gregtech, Tinkers Construct, Natura, IguanaTweaks for TiC if you want "balance".

 

[Omicron]

I recommend against that - adding random mods doesn't necessarily help game balance, especially if said mods clash heavily.

Last I checked, Natura was largely incompatible even with TiC and vanilla recipes and caused more problems than it added features. GregTech and Tinker's Construct clash in style (and some mechanics) by default. GregTech is a total conversion mod that doesn't just add content but changes the entirety of what Minecraft is; Tinker's Construct is starting to head into that direction as well by deactivating several vanilla features in favor of its own. Which are generally much more powerful, so "balance" is a questionable term there. IguanaTweaks doesn't really change that fact, but simply lenghtens the time and effort in between progression tiers, while sacrificing some logic in order to construct additional progression tiers (for example Tinker's Construct and Industrialcraft/GregTech have bronze correctly placed higher up in the progression than cast iron, but IguanaTweaks reverses that for TiC only, causing yet another inter-mod clash).

And that's just examining the four you posted, without seeing how they match up against the rest of Cocofang's modlist.

@Cocofang: I'm generally using similar settings to yours. I tend to set Forestry harder still, though I'm not sure what the recent changes CovertJaguar made to the fuel values mean (I haven't tried it out yet). Applied Energistics I tend to eschew entirely; I played with it once, enjoyed it, and then got incredibly bored of how it completely took over all item storage, transport and handling in an invisible manner. If my base can't have a needlessly overengineered pipe system where I can watch my items zip about as I lean back with a cool drink, I won't feel satisfied (o Redpower, where art thou?). Modular Powersuits is a mod I personally consider heavily unbalanced and do not run at all for that reason. Consider GraviSuite as an alternative.

In IC2, I generally bump nuclear reactors up by 20%, from 5 to 6, so they are even remotely cost effective (and believe me when I say, your EU power needs for Experimental are A LOT higher than IC2 classic). Might be fun to play with steam-outputting reactors sometime, but I'd first have to try out in a test world what that config setting even does exactly. The tin bucket recipe you can leave active, it really doesn't break anything unless you have some sort of reverse-smelting recipe for buckets that would allow you to convert tin into iron. And IC2 still eats iron for breakfast, lunch, dinner and midnight snack, so you'll be glad for having the alternative. Worldgen of copper and tin could be toned down a bit for my tastes, since IC2 spawns ridiculous amounts of it, so maybe set the ore multiplier to 0.9 or 0.8. Definitely not lower though, or you'll never find any uranium anymore. Disabling vanilla enderchests is relatively pointless since you cannot automate them, you cannot have more than one inventory, and they get destroyed everytime you break them. They're basically glorified personal saves in multiplayer and almost entirely without use in singleplayer.

In Railcraft I tend to turn off sulfur worldgen because it spawns absolute gazillions of it, while the only use it has is making gunpowder. Which in turn has no real use besides TNT, which is highly situational at best. A similar case can be made for turning off saltpeter too. Also, IC2 Experimental provides sulfur now, via the ore washing plant and in more sensible amounts. However, you can also leave the Railcraft stuff in and simply dump it all in recyclers. Scrap need for UU-matter went up by 60 times, you'll find, and that value is not configurable.

Oh, and: get the Nuclear Control addon for IC2. If you want to play with the new MOX fuel in IC2 experimental, this is not optional - you can't properly use it without temperature monitoring. And the sheer utility of the information panels cannot be underestimated.

 

[Golrith]

Agreed with Omnicron there. Usually by adjusting the configs, you can globally make mods "harder" then before. In most cases this is either alternate more expensive recipes, or requiring more power, or by making resources scarcer.

The mod list already has various mods missing, to make things "harder", noticably any form of "cheap" item teleportation. I would high recommend NOT adding MPS, or at least disable the flight modules.
I would also exclude CC. It forces you to come up with more involved solutions then "a turtle can easily do this with some code". Get back to the roots of tech mods resulting in chunky builds with pipes/wires running all over the place.

 

[MigukNamja]

I would also exclude CC. It forces you to come up with more involved solutions then "a turtle can easily do this with some code".

Yes, but if said code is written by the player using the turtle...

As an example, I've put maybe 4 to 5 hours total into writing, debugging, and tweaking a Peat farm program. It will take me a looong time to reach the break-even point in terms of time saved doing it manually vs. time spent writing code. However, writing the Lua code has been far more fun than doing it manually or setting up a Forestry peat farm.

With that said, the CC turtle is a bit OP if abused. My first turtle program is/was a quarry. Not counting the time sunk into the Lua code, just 3 diamonds for an automated miner that's about half as fast as a half-powered quarry but *much* cheaper to make and power is OP. I stopped using that program a couple of worlds ago.

It should cost more (fuel) to move a turtle and turtle actions like breaking a block should definitely cost more. The diamond pickaxe should also wear out and/or be upgradeable similar to how SteveCarts2 has 3 tiers of woodcutting and farming tools with only the final and insanely expensive (in terms of diamonds at least) top tier one requiring no maintenance. But, these are not CC config options.

In general, I like more options, but mods or mechanics which bring about the end of the world faster than the rest are not my favorite.

 

[Cocofang]

Tanks for the answer Omnicron.

Yeah the sulfur is kinda annoying, but saltpeter has actual uses as a apatite substitute.

Yeah nuclear control sounds good.


Regarding Forestry:

With the new changes + Hard config it behaves really weird:

put infinite saplings (apple oak) + water + mulch into a fermenter and power it using a biogas engine with 8 buckets of biomass. This results in merely above 4 buckets of biomass. Which sounds kinda wrong

But now even with the new fuel change and the hard config, if you were to use blue mahoe instead you would produce over 24 buckets.



And that is actually what makes it really hard for me to find the right forestry settings. I even reported it as a bug, but it was confirmed that it wasn't. I always interpreted it in a way that instead of just providing a 6x modifier for Biomass those saplings would just get consumed at a sixth of a speed and thus would need less farmspace or power ore fermenters. That way you would actually need to pay additional power for Mulch production, those fermenters and perhaps even juice/honey production, instead of just getting a 6x times increase in production which is more like a 12x increase in net power gain

I've tested that on a slightly changed config using buildcraft tanks. The result was hillarious. using Apple oak i ended up about slightly more than one tank full while Blue Mahoe looked like a freaking tower of Biomass.

Oh yeah and I am slightly annoyed at the fact that there are fuels for the biogas engine that run at a loss no matter what. i would like them to be at least slightly profitable, even if by just 1 MJ per hour. Because else it will just mean that I will just be careful to not overproduce and thus never use these engine for anything but Biomass

And yeah IC2 ex. has neat EU needs. It also makes better cables and transformer upgrades really useful. I mean multiple ovverclocked machines would require a better cable which would really need a transformer upgrade if oyu don't want them to blow once a few other machines stop doing there work

edit: wasn't even planning on using turtles. But yeah probably gonna kick it out. I am terrible at that stuff anyway

 

[Golrith]

That's because the idea is to breed trees to get better saplings. A crude attempt at getting players to actually play part of the mods content because everyone used biofuel in the past.

 

[Cocofang]

TBH, even than better saplings would be useful. Not hilalriously useful but combined with the other benefits of tree breeding (better seed oil, fruit juice, wood production and cosmetic possibilities in the form of trees as well as wood types)

Compared to butterfly breeding which merely adds cosmetic value and allows for better tree breeding

edit: on the topic of steve's carts? have they changed alot? I remember they wwere hillariously strong at one point.

You know I don't mind it being a free infinite treefarm at some later point of the game. TC 4 already does that if you create an army of golems. But if it comes by too quickly it would be kinda weird. The last time i used it you could have infinite wood in like 1 to 2 hours of playing

 

[kittle]

The better forestry saplings are where its at.
I spent the time to breed up some nice blue mahoe (modified) saplings. When I put a single stack of these things in the fermemter, it could not pump the biomass out fast enough -- it maxed out my liquiduct. I had to add a 2nd one to keep it from getting backlogged.

 

[MigukNamja]

Yes, good Mahoe is worth doing and, IMHO, working as intended. Hard work should be rewarded.

The problem or question should not be whether to reach "the end game", but rather how long and via what route to get there ?

If it's too easy, it's too akin to creative mode. If it's too tough, then the game ceases being fun for most people. This is a game, not real life

Balance is important. For experienced/skilled players, the mods found in Unleashed, FTB, and typical mod packs with their default configs is too easy. But, you/we represent a sliver of the player base. Most players are happy and very much challenged with the default settings. I know I was the first time I used Forestry, Railcraft, IC2, AE, etc.,. I was pleased that I managed to figure it out and get it work period.

 

[Cocofang]

@Miguk

Yeah its working as intended. Sengir confirmed that to me. I still think it is too effective (and think that the wiki reads differently on how they work)

TBH Raiclraft and nowadays Thaumcraft will always be hard for me, cmpletely independant of the config, because I try to plan all my buildings beforehand and all those multiblocks make my planning hard (I consider the Altar and the "Wand recharge room" as multiblocks )

 

[MigukNamja]

Aye, I need to plan better and build better bases. I really do enjoy the world and the game more when I have a better-laid-out, better-looking base.

I've been doing what probably a lot of people do : create a crappy, but creeper-safe starter home and expand. Rather, I have more fun when I build it right from the beginning or else tear it all down and re-build it much better later.

 

[Drawde]

I don't know about the Minecraft 1.6 version, but the 1.5 version of MPS's configs allow you to turn off individual moduals. And allow you to change a lot of the numbers around as well.

Provided the 1.6 version is the same, I'd turn off the force field armor and the power generators. Without the force fields you have to balance your weight. Which means your movement, armor, or energy storage will have have to suffer. And without the generators you'll have to recharge your armor, especially if you go with less energy storage. You'll also take more damage, so aren't as invincible.

A mid-game MPS isn't as powerful as a fully upgraded version. Actually having to worry about the suit's weight makes a big difference.