Changes to bee breeding for Unleashed 1.1.4

[Juanitierno]

Heya!

Could someone point me at what changes have been made to bee breeding for the pack i mention in the topic?

Ive heard of some pretty un-intuitive changes on random videos that worry me (something like not having frames in an alveary breaking the bees, and trying to mutate them too hard turning them swarmers?)

Im not sure how much of that applies to UNL1.1.4, but would appreciate any info!

Thanks!

 

[Siro]

it's not really a big deal if they turn into swarmers. They'll last more than long enough to breed up some drones to isolate the species.

 

[Juanitierno]

Yeah, i could also extract the species, but how do you know of they become swarmers? (last time i did bees those didnt exist)

 

[twisto51]

Swarmers have a - next to them after analysis.

The best change to bees in 1.1.4 is that BoP won't be making it nigh-impossible to find some of them, like Embittered bees.

 

[Runo]

The biggest concerns are changes from 1.47 to 1.52, then there are other changes slated for 1.6 I think.

For the 1.5 transition, there is now a soft cap on production and mutation bonus via frames. If you go over this soft cap, there is a chance your princess will turn into a swarmer and vanish after a few generations. The production soft cap is x16, or 4 frames in an alveary, and the mutation soft cap is, I think, x5 or x10, whatever the value of uranium in an alveary is.

There are ways to work the system and still get insane frame bonus, but it involves queen consumption and automated template breeding. No more 1000 uranium/day from one alveary without a lot of effort.

 

[snooder]

For the 1.5 transition, there is now a soft cap on production and mutation bonus via frames. If you go over this soft cap, there is a chance your princess will turn into a swarmer and vanish after a few generations. The production soft cap is x16, or 4 frames in an alveary, and the mutation soft cap is, I think, x5 or x10, whatever the value of uranium in an alveary is.
There are ways to work the system and still get insane frame bonus, but it involves queen consumption and automated template breeding. No more 1000 uranium/day from one alveary without a lot of effort.

Watch out for the 4x frame rule of thumb. That applies to impregnated and untreated frames. Chocolate frames add more production which will put you over the limit. A guy on my server had all his bees turn to swarmers because he was using chocolate frames.

Another big new thing is the escritoire. It's really handy for bee breeding cause it can (a) help jumpstart your collection of combs/pollen/royal jelly and (b) give an improved chance to get a mutation.

 

[Juanitierno]

Does it tell the current production speed/mutation speed somewhere? Or are we punished without even knowing why in some cases?

(should totally be a tab in the alveary/apiary if it is not...)

 

[Celestialphoenix]

An in-game guide for the basic values would be nice (soul frame is 1.5, uranium 10, nether star 100. enderpearl/eye also work)- but is simple adding up really that hard?

Edit- but this change is kinda neat- it'll adds a real in-game value to using swarmer blocks. Stack in some royal jelly with a stable drone/princess, and use the swarmer hives for Uber-production.

 

[Juanitierno]

The thing is, i only realized adding was needed because i watch a lot of videos.

People who dont follow youtubers will never know why their bees are becoming swarmers, or when...

 

[Runo]

Watch out for the 4x frame rule of thumb. That applies to impregnated and untreated frames. Chocolate frames add more production which will put you over the limit. A guy on my server had all his bees turn to swarmers because he was using chocolate frames.

Another big new thing is the escritoire. It's really handy for bee breeding cause it can (a) help jumpstart your collection of combs/pollen/royal jelly and (b) give an improved chance to get a mutation.

I dont think thats correct. Chocolate frames are a 1.5x boost, where impregnated/proven are a 2.0x boost. it takes a lot of chocolate frames to reach the 16x production point. it takes 7 chocolate frames to make it to that point. It could be that theres a soft cap of 1/16 on lifespan shortening or something, or its a cumulative effect of both. Ive used 4 chocolate frames in alvearies for at least 100 lifecycles with no problems.

 

[snooder]

I dont think thats correct. Chocolate frames are a 1.5x boost, where impregnated/proven are a 2.0x boost. it takes a lot of chocolate frames to reach the 16x production point. it takes 7 chocolate frames to make it to that point. It could be that theres a soft cap of 1/16 on lifespan shortening or something, or its a cumulative effect of both. Ive used 4 chocolate frames in alvearies for at least 100 lifecycles with no problems.

That makes no sense. Why would a chocolate frame, which is supposed to provide more production at the expense of a shorter lifespan have a smaller production bonus than an impregnated frame, which is needed in the recipe for the chocolate frame? I may be wrong; I certainly haven't had any of my own bees turn into swarmers, and he may have done something else wrong.

 

[Juanitierno]

That makes no sense. Why would a chocolate frame, which is supposed to provide more production at the expense of a shorter lifespan have a smaller production bonus than an impregnated frame, which is needed in the recipe for the chocolate frame? I may be wrong; I certainly haven't had any of my own bees turn into swarmers, and he may have done something else wrong.

I think the job of the chocolate frame is to shorten the lifespan... increasing productivity is just a bonus.[DOUBLEPOST=1380893801][/DOUBLEPOST]

I dont think thats correct. Chocolate frames are a 1.5x boost, where impregnated/proven are a 2.0x boost. it takes a lot of chocolate frames to reach the 16x production point. it takes 7 chocolate frames to make it to that point. It could be that theres a soft cap of 1/16 on lifespan shortening or something, or its a cumulative effect of both. Ive used 4 chocolate frames in alvearies for at least 100 lifecycles with no problems.

Are those composite additions? Like... will 3 proven frames do (base)x2x2x2 or (base)+1+1+1 ?

 

[Runo]

I think the job of the chocolate frame is to shorten the lifespan... increasing productivity is just a bonus.[DOUBLEPOST=1380893801][/DOUBLEPOST]


Are those composite additions? Like... will 3 proven frames do (base)x2x2x2 or (base)+1+1+1 ?

treat the number of frames like an exponent, and frame multiplier as the base. 6 impregnated frames would be be 2^6, or 64x the base comb chance. Same reason 4 chocolate frames reduce a bees life to around 1/16 instead of 1/4. The reason for the nerf was allowing 6 impregnated frames meant combs with 2% chance, like the radioactive comb, could be multiplied to a guaranteed return. This is what caused one alveary to be able to power thousands of EU/mj via radioactive and oily bees. If a lower production rate on rare materials can be completely counteracted via frame spam, it destroys the balance of those products making bees the only viable mass production method of obtaining them as well as cheapening the value of common produce bees.

Now, the max multiplier is 16x without swarmers, so a 32% chance on combs that start as a 2% base, so a two-thirds reduction in produce per alveary. Theoretically, you should achieve similar production from 3 alvearies as you used to with 1, though there seems to be something about multiple-comb bees that interfere with this a little. I'm not sure if its that production can double-produce a high base chance comb or if the game chooses which comb to produce at random, though I think its the former. That'd explain why you always get more barren combs than radioactive combs.

 

[Juanitierno]

Thanks for the answer!

Now i just have to keep all that in mind to know how many frames i cna safely put in an alveary