Can the intrusiveness of GregTech be reigned in?

[raiju]

It seems fine to me. You in your infinite knowledge should be bringing evidence of your case as you would be a fool to assume anything in minecraft is equal. Did the possibility ever occur that supposing you get an equal amount of bronze out, you just need more bronze in all the recipes?

OH MY GOD IT TAKES 9 DIFFERENT INGOTS TO MAKE 2 MIXED METAL << right?

 

[Moleculor]

Considering we make bronze in the real world with about 8 parts copper to 1 part tin it is hardly comparable to the real world, but is actually doable in a minecraft crafting table if mods wanted to. Yes you are right about the losing half of the dust/ingots being ridiculous, but he did it because it is the way IC2 did it with dusts by default and it is the one that made things more difficult. So IC2 was making people create 2 bronze from 3 copper and 1 tin in the first place anyway, greg just balanced the 2 instead of leaving one mod with a completely inadequate recipe. The point is we can turn it off if we want. I feel it makes creating forestry machines needlessly more expensive in the early part of the game myself.

Then sure, I guess IC2 is the problem here too. GregTech's author's attitude just rubs me the wrong way.

Considering bronze in IC2 is pretty much pointless (worthless armor! Yay! Ok, I guess there's mixed metal ingots, but by the time you're making those, you're out of the early game), but bronze in Forestry is pretty much a requirement, mod makers should be erring on the side of supporting the mod that uses the ingots for actually useful things; i.e. Forestry.

GregTech's little "bronze nerf" essentially locks players out of touching Forestry for a significant amount of time, and it shouldn't be interfering that much.

 

[Abdiel]

You can make a chest large enough to hold thousands of the same chests, and you're arguing mass or volume?

Greg, unlike pretty much every other mod author, when he sees an imbalance or a cross-mod exploit, doesn't just cover his ears, stick his head in the sand, and blame the other guy. He goes and fixes the exploit. And for whiners who are intent on doing things the old way, balance be screwed, he even provides an option to turn it off. I don't see what's there not to like.

 

[Moleculor]

Greg, unlike pretty much every other mod author, when he sees an imbalance or a cross-mod exploit, doesn't just cover his ears, stick his head in the sand, and blame the other guy. He goes and fixes the exploit. And for whiners who are intent on doing things the old way, balance be screwed, he even provides an option to turn it off. I don't see what's there not to like.

And he does so by completely screwing up the balance of that mod, making all of its recipes insanely expensive. That's not acceptable.

 

[Abdiel]

If you can't accept it, just change the config. You are doing the same thing: blaming your unwillingness to fix a problem on others, even when the fix is trivial.

 

[MFINN23]

You can't even fix the fact that gregtech changes the maceration of diamond ore to dust instead of gems. I've scoured the configs, nothing.

 

[Moleculor]

If you can't accept it, just change the config. You are doing the same thing: blaming your unwillingness to fix a problem on others, even when the fix is trivial.

I already have changed it. Why do I need to change a config file every single time Greg decides to screw with things?

 

[Zaik]

I already have changed it. Why do I need to change a config file every single time Greg decides to screw with things?

You won't forever. The FTB team intends to(eventually) allow a simple easy/hard toggle for mods with huge config files like Gregtech.

The Mindcrack pack was specifically requested to have Gregtech on full hard by the Mindcrack guys. If that's a problem you could opt to add gregtech to the DW20 pack and port the config over and edit the settings how you please.

 

[Moleculor]

You won't forever. The FTB team intends to(eventually) allow a simple easy/hard toggle for mods with huge config files like Gregtech.

The Mindcrack pack was specifically requested to have Gregtech on full hard by the Mindcrack guys. If that's a problem you could opt to add gregtech to the DW20 pack and port the config over and edit the settings how you please.

Oh, thank the FSM. Will this also be usable by server operators? The server I'm currently on is being run by someone who's entirely unfamiliar with FTB, and had no idea GregTech messed with anything, and I don't know enough to walk him through fixing it all.

 

[Jay Cee]

I already have changed it. Why do I need to change a config file every single time Greg decides to screw with things?

Dude, by using his mod you understand what comes with it. He clearly states that he is changing recipes. If you don't like it, uninstall it. If there is one thing in his mod you do like but no other features, look for another mod that adds that feature without changing recipes.

Honestly it isn't that hard to figure out.

 

[DoctorOr]

Exploit/"User level fix" in spoiler tag

Spoiler

If you're at all concerned, if you use 3 copper *ingots* and one tin *ingot*, you can get 4 bronze ingots.

In a 2x2 grid, you need them

CC
CT

If you put the tin in any other spot, you get two ingots. this is because the recipe above is a "shaped" recipe, which takes precidence, and the shapeless one only gives two ingots.\

 

[Moleculor]

Dude, by using his mod you understand what comes with it. He clearly states that he is changing recipes. If you don't like it, uninstall it. If there is one thing in his mod you do like but no other features, look for another mod that adds that feature without changing recipes.

Honestly it isn't that hard to figure out.

I like *some* of the changes, but not *all* of the changes, and having to undo every single change he makes is frustrating.

Feel free to link me to a mod that adds the GregTech computer, fusion, thorium and plutonium, the centrifuge, etc, without all of his screwing around with other people's mods though.

 

[ItharianEngineering]

Exploit/"User level fix" in spoiler tag

Spoiler

If you're at all concerned, if you use 3 copper *ingots* and one tin *ingot*, you can get 4 bronze ingots.

In a 2x2 grid, you need them

CC
CT

If you do them like

CT
CC

you get two ingots.

That is a glitch that Greg has fixed in more recent versions of his mod.

 

[DoctorOr]

Feel free to link me to a mod that adds the GregTech computer, fusion, thorium and plutonium, the centrifuge, etc, without all of his screwing around with other people's mods though.

That "etc" is awful big. People see the machines, but fail to recognize the massive potential game changing effects aluminium and other items GregTech adds to the game can have. Good changes, IMO.

Aluminium is primarily processed out of bauxite, but the easiest source is clay. (Which if you're near a red cobblestone biome or mystworld is sickeningly easy to acquire). Just like in real life, there's a technological hurdle to overcome to get the aluminium (you need an industrial electrolyzer) but once you have it, it can change the world - and in the process make some things much easier. Because it can be used as an optional replacement for many (not all!) recipes for iron, refined iron and tin. For some recipes, notably the advanced alloy recipe, when aluminium is used you can get more out of the recipe and thus save on other metals to get the same output.

Electrum has no technological hurdle to overcome and so is available as soon as you get a macerator or pulverizer. You mix one gold and one silver dust together for one electrum. When Electrum is used in electronic circuits / advanced circuits / class fiber cables (all things you use a LOT of, over all) you get more output for every input and thus save on all the other materials. Low on copper? Use electrum in place of redstone, and you get two circuits for the same copper cable / refined iron as for one normally. It replaces redstone in advanced circuits for double the effect as well.

Silicon plates. Everybody cries about them because they're needed for the solar panel (Rightly so because it makes that one recipe too hard, IMO) but fail to see that they can replace the electronic circuit in the *advanced* circuit recipe. You can jump directly to the advanced circuits, without using copper wire on the normal one. And again, if you use electrum instead of redstone, you get 2 advanced circuits.

Magnesium dust plus a rolling machine gives you plates that can be used to make windmills. Except, this recipe gives you *two* windmills per generator + two magnesium plates. All you need to get magnesium is something to grind marble to dust, and an industrial centrifuge.

 

[Jay Cee]

Talk to him about it bro, I fail to see the point in complaining about it without first going to the source of your "problem".

It is his mod he made, it is made how he likes it, he is the person to complain to

 

[noskk]

You can't even fix the fact that gregtech changes the maceration of diamond ore to dust instead of gems. I've scoured the configs, nothing.

He doesn't provide config for it, because you can't even macerate diamond ore without GregTech; and better don't macerate it and use the Industrial Grinder/Implosion Comp or Fortune Pickaxe..

 

[DaemosDaen]

... is not part of the formula. And removing the impurities from iron doesn't halve its volume/density/size/mass/whatever.

Seriously, it's silly how much y'all are twisting to try and explain how four ingots equals two. Admitting it's wrong is so much easier.

SRSLY? Melt 1 pound of raw iron ore, remove 1/4 a pound of impurities and some how, by magic you get 1 pound back????
/sarcasm off
you lose the 1/4 pound of impurities and only get 1/3 pound of iron back.

In all honesty, forestry's recipe is the only one that gives 4 bronze, the other bronze recipe only give 2 (the IC2 recipe) he chose to make the forestry recipe only give 2 to match IC2.

a Server admin should already know how to edit configs and should also know that they can just drag the config over to the config folder of their server the same way a user would do so with the client config.

And to sum up my thoughts of people's opinion of GregTech; If you don't like it, then don't use it, he has an option to disable almost ALL the changed in his mod, and if that's too much, then don't use the mod.

P.S. This is still valid on most things;
Fortune Pickaxe > all other methods of increasing gems/coal yield.

Edit; quote fubared

 

[jnads]

The more and more I play with GregTech, the more and more I dislike it (from someone who has a lot of the GregTech stuff).

IMO, GregTech has no place in FTB (aside from the fact FTB is a mod pack). When Ultimate comes out, I'll probably disable it. It really detracts from other mods, as it tries to be an end-all-be-all forbidden fruit mod. The problem is, he keeps raising the attainability of other mods to drive people to use his mod (whether or not he admits this, this is the ultimate outcome).

I admire he tries to close cross-mod loopholes, but many of them are caused by his mod. I mean, GregTech, is originally meant to be an ultra-endgame for IC2. Other mods can accomplish some things better than IC2 that GregTech tries to solve. GregTech serves as a distraction to the other mods more than anything, until people waste their time using it and realize it's a sucky dead-end. You spend all your time trying to make these really awesome machines, and when you get there.... you realize they're too awesome. Essentially game-ruining.


There's no block or feature GregTech adds that isn't already do-able by another mod, albeit in more complex (and more fun!) fashion.

Ultimately, GregTech reduces the fun in the game.


I finally grok what someone means when they say something is overpowered (OP). It literally sucks the Minecraft out of Minecraft.

 

[MFINN23]

He doesn't provide config for it, because you can't even macerate diamond ore without GregTech; and better don't macerate it and use the Industrial Grinder/Implosion Comp or Fortune Pickaxe..

Pretty sure I remember macerating the ore in the beta pack to get two diamonds.

 

[Squigie]

GregTech adds a lot of cool stuff, but when presented with a choice that is terrible and one that is not, Greg can be counted on to choose the terrible one. Rather than removing the burn value of scaffolding or banning them from generators, he nerfs them for their intended purpose as scaffolding. Boiler's already won't take them. The bronze nerf is redundant given that Forestry already includes a config option to disable it's recipe. Something not pointless would be an optional buff to the IC and TE recipes. Tin buckets allow you to transmute tin to iron? IC config option, just like the Railcraft steel minecart recipe that is off so you can't duplicate iron with the alloy furnace. Using the compressor for crafting storage blocks? Some poor newb follows the pattern and sticks in nine copper expecting a copper block and instead gets a dense copper plate.

I'm currently playing with the Mindcrack Pack with most of the hard stuff left on, and I turned on the TE expensive recipes to match. It's been enjoyabe so far, finally got a diamond drill, the centrifuge and electrolizer are fun, and the inaccessibility of solar gives me more reason to look to other generators. However, some of these features are less stylistic differences and more bad ideas.

Pretty sure I remember macerating the ore in the beta pack to get two diamonds.

GT is in the beta pack, and those macerator recipes are not in stock IC.