Can the intrusiveness of GregTech be reigned in?

[Moleculor]

I just fired up the Mindcrack pack to try it out. (Only started trying FTB last week, these are my first mods for Minecraft as well.)

Upon creating a new world, I get slapped in the face with a message telling me that getting the same amount of metal I put into a recipe back out of the same recipe is an "exploit", and that the recipe has been altered.

Worse, it's a message from a mod completely other than the one the recipe is for. Bronze is for Forestry, and apparently GregTech thinks that the "non-exploit" version of crafting Bronze is for half of my metal to vanish into thin air when I craft it.

Four ingots in, two ingots out.

To top it off, it appears (though I could be wrong) that the author of this mod is *insisting* that he will not add in an option in the config files to undo this change.

I like the toys GregTech gives me. I was even starting to warm up to the added complications of some of the recipes from what I'd seen in Youtube videos, such as requiring Rolling Machines for mixed metal ingots, and Iridium for a lot of high end items.

But to be arrogantly told that conservation of mass is an "exploit"? I don't like this. Not one bit.

 

[ItharianEngineering]

The forestry bronze nerf can be changed in the config ForestryBronzeNerf=false instead of true.
The exploits he is referring to mostly is tin buckets from IC2 allowing you to uncraft them for iron in a blast furnace and the wood scaffolding exploit people used with generators to more a lot more power from their wood, which he would set back to the normal 16 if not for the fact that he can't lower the burn value of scaffolds because of forge.

 

[Moleculor]

Thank you. That helps. I *really* hate being talked to like I'm a cheater when I'm just trying to play a game.

Is there some place that actually lists all the various config options and what they do? The GregTech wiki has some information, but it's poorly written.

EDIT 25 minutes later: Interesting. The modpack updated, and now the arrogant message is gone.

 

[Abdiel]

The problem is not with conversation of mass, but with you being able to convert two bronze back into three copper and one tin later in the game. Thus the Forestry recipe starts a cycle of generating infinite mass.

 

[Honza8D]

I just fired up the Mindcrack pack to try it out. (Only started trying FTB last week, these are my first mods for Minecraft as well.)

Upon creating a new world, I get slapped in the face with a message telling me that getting the same amount of metal I put into a recipe back out of the same recipe is an "exploit", and that the recipe has been altered.

Worse, it's a message from a mod completely other than the one the recipe is for. Bronze is for Forestry, and apparently GregTech thinks that the "non-exploit" version of crafting Bronze is for half of my metal to vanish into thin air when I craft it.

Four ingots in, two ingots out.

To top it off, it appears (though I could be wrong) that the author of this mod is *insisting* that he will not add in an option in the config files to undo this change.

I like the toys GregTech gives me. I was even starting to warm up to the added complications of some of the recipes from what I'd seen in Youtube videos, such as requiring Rolling Machines for mixed metal ingots, and Iridium for a lot of high end items.

But to be arrogantly told that conservation of mass is an "exploit"? I don't like this. Not one bit.

For your information mass isn't the same thing as volume. You see for example a kilogram of gold will be a lot smaller that a kilgram of water for example. The mass to volume rate is called density.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density
So its actually more probably that the volume would be different than same. Now if you want to talk about real mass conversation problems you could point out that 2 cubic meters of water can produce infinete water, or one cubic meter of lava and 1 cubic meter of water can produce infinite cobblestone, or that when you kill a mob he nearly completaly disappears, wich means mass disappears too. But there would be no point as its just a game, it doesn't use real life physics.

 

[noskk]

Actually bronze is an alloy (solid solution), so technically you will get less bronze blend, though instead of 2 bronzes; 3 coppers + 1 tin (the additive) -> 3 bronzes should be fine..

 

[Poppycocks]

Honestly, I've no idea what greg was thinking when he changed every other recipe for bronze to give you 2 for 4, instead of changing his reverting recipe to 4 for 4.

 

[noskk]

If you change the nerf to false, you will also change his reverting recipe, so now you have 2 standards to play, if nerf = true you are using IC2 std (that give 2 bronzes) else Forestry std (that give 4 bronzes)

 

[ItharianEngineering]

The reason for the nerf is that by default IC2 creates it's own bronze through dust and only creates 2 bronze dust for every 3 copper and 1 tin dust. Because of Forestrys bronze recipe using ingots giving twice that you no longer have any reason to use it and will always opt for using that one instead. Gregtech changed it so both were equally viable.

 

[MFINN23]

I wish it was more clear in the cofigs which setting are his changes to other mods and which are settings for his own mod. For example, the bronze thing and the upgrade stack size is listed under "features"[DOUBLEPOST=1357553364][/DOUBLEPOST]I have no idea what some of these settings do and what the default values that the other mods intended were.[DOUBLEPOST=1357553569][/DOUBLEPOST]It would be nice if someone made a gregtech config guide to how to disable all of his changes to other mods.

 

[ItharianEngineering]

In the recipes.cfg for gregtech the ic2recipes section turns on and off the quantum suit and mass fab (which will replace it with his matter fab). the usefullrecipes section is where most of the ic2 recipe changes are, like the solar panel change and also the change to the BC quarry. Those are most important ones to people I think. Also in the gregtech.cfg is the section that changes how the quantum suit works, deactivating some of it's abilities.

 

[MFINN23]

Do you know what the stack size of upgrades is supposed to be by default?[DOUBLEPOST=1357554464][/DOUBLEPOST]And what is:
B:Reactorplanner=true
B:Seedscanner=true
B:ConstantEnergyMachine=true
B:MinerListLavaAddition=true[DOUBLEPOST=1357554517][/DOUBLEPOST]Also what are unificatortargets?

 

[ItharianEngineering]

it is set to 4 by default but I am not even sure myself what it does. Reactorplanner is a program that the gregtech computer can run which simulates a nuclear reactor in game for a reliable check to see if a build will work. Same thing with the seed scanner, it will scan seed bags from IC2 crops to check them. ConstantEnergyMachine is how his machines need constant energy to keep progress, like how a macerator will freeze if it suddenly loses power his machines will lose progress and just eat your EU until it gets the correct amount of power input, it is more realistic this way. MinerListLavaAddition I have no idea what it does myself.

 

[Moleculor]

For your information mass isn't the same thing as volume. You see for example a kilogram of gold will be a lot smaller that a kilgram of water for example.

Yes, but we're not talking about converting gold to water. We're talking about mixing two metals together. I sincerely doubt that two metals mixed together result in a third metal with half the volume and/or density of what they were individually.

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Anyway. Can anyone explain what each of these config options does? The GregTech wiki is poorly written.

 

[raiju]

Yes, but we're not talking about converting gold to water. We're talking about mixing two metals together. I sincerely doubt that two metals mixed together result in a third metal with half the volume and/or density of what they were individually.

---

Anyway. Can anyone explain what each of these config options does? The GregTech wiki is poorly written.

It may take multiple animals to make high quality clothing - because parts may not be suitable.

 

[Moleculor]

It may take multiple animals to make high quality clothing - because parts may not be suitable.

Again, another bad comparison. Metal is not an animal. Ingots are ingots *because* they've had their unusable parts removed.

 

[MFINN23]

Anyway. Can anyone explain what each of these config options does? The GregTech wiki is poorly written.

Would be a great addition to the wiki. A gregtech config guide.

 

[raiju]

Again, another bad comparison. Metal is not an animal. Ingots are ingots *because* they've had their unusable parts removed.

iron

 

[Moleculor]

iron

... is not part of the formula. And removing the impurities from iron doesn't halve its volume/density/size/mass/whatever.

Seriously, it's silly how much y'all are twisting to try and explain how four ingots equals two. Admitting it's wrong is so much easier.

 

[ItharianEngineering]

Considering we make bronze in the real world with about 8 parts copper to 1 part tin it is hardly comparable to the real world, but is actually doable in a minecraft crafting table if mods wanted to. Yes you are right about the losing half of the dust/ingots being ridiculous, but he did it because it is the way IC2 did it with dusts by default and it is the one that made things more difficult. So IC2 was making people create 2 bronze from 3 copper and 1 tin in the first place anyway, greg just balanced the 2 instead of leaving one mod with a completely inadequate recipe. The point is we can turn it off if we want. I feel it makes creating forestry machines needlessly more expensive in the early part of the game myself.