Mod Feedback [By Request] RotaryCraft Suggestions

[trajing]

Well... Thinking about it a bit more, now I see your logic behind it. (To encourage using more difficult and finicky higher-tier energy generation, such as nuclear and fusion, instead of just spamming, for example, jet turbines, right?) It does solve that rather nicely I suppose, though it still seems a little jarring. What about adding tiered shaft junctions, (without a bedrock one, so that people don't just spam those and the nerf is completely negated) and/or making junctions require lubricant if they combine more then such and such amount of energy? And the amount of lubricant required increases exponentially? Or it could just require lubricant if they combine more then four engines, else break.

There are legitimate uses for shaft junctions that don't involve engine spam. I use them to merge my main and auxiliary power sources, so that when one goes out, I can flip a lever and the other one turns on.
I also use it to split output.

 

[abculatter_2]

There are legitimate uses for shaft junctions that don't involve engine spam. I use them to merge my main and auxiliary power sources, so that when one goes out, I can flip a lever and the other one turns on.
I also use it to split output.

I'm aware that there are more uses then engine spam. Personally, I use them to combine a multi-directional clutch's multiple outputs into one, for the varying energy requirements of the extractor.

There is already a bedrock junction, as by that point the techtree has been completed.

Did not know that.

 

[Pyure]

I propose that steam engines should have their mechanics changed a bit, so that they produce less power the lower heat they have. (To, combined with the later suggestion, provide a use for flywheels, which currently aren't particularly useful in RoC, though they really should be) Additionally, the passive heat providers (lava and fire) could be made more erratic in how they heat steam engines or just stuff in general, with the heat jumping up and down randomly.

This is a clever game mechanic idea. I like that it encourages flywheel use as you mentioned.

I'm partially biased in that I dislike the "magical" rotarycraft power sources however.

 

[DriftinFool]

So, I just played around with the anti-engine-spam mechanics of shaft junctions. It seems, to me, rather inelegant and band-aid-ish, given that it has no real basis on the physics that RoC bases itself on.

It seems like a much better solution to the problem would be to nerf steam. (Hydrokinetics already got the bedrock upgrade nerf, which is fine, AC engines require occasional human input, DC provides so little power that spamming hundreds of them would just be stupid, and wind could stand to gain more use. I can't think of any other engines where engine spam would be exploity, due to fuel requirements.)

I propose that steam engines should have their mechanics changed a bit, so that they produce less power the lower heat they have. (To, combined with the later suggestion, provide a use for flywheels, which currently aren't particularly useful in RoC, though they really should be) Additionally, the passive heat providers (lava and fire) could be made more erratic in how they heat steam engines or just stuff in general, with the heat jumping up and down randomly. This would encourage the use of the heater for heat-based machines, rather then just plopping down a block of lava/netherrack, as it would provide a consistent and constant level of heat. It would also give a use for furnace fuels in RoC which currently are pretty much useless once you have a furnace heater, as well as by extension the woodcutter. (And I suppose also blaze spawner controllers.)

EDIT: Also, not sure if you're aware, but Railcraft coke doesn't work in the RoC blast furnace.

Since I am not aware of how this works, could you give me more info? At what point do multiple engines become spam? Also what happens when you try to use too many? Just curious because I do use as many as 8 steam engines together for power. Is that too many?

 

[abculatter_2]

I'm partially biased in that I dislike the "magical" rotarycraft power sources however.

Agreed, it feels too consistent. It would be nice to have some inconsistency before nukes.
I also feel that electricraft is a really nice step in a direction that RoC needed, and would work beautifully with the above, though I have other issues with that particular mod...

Since I am not aware of how this works, could you give me more info? At what point do multiple engines become spam? Also what happens when you try to use too many? Just curious because I do use as many as 8 steam engines together for power. Is that too many?

anything more then 4 engines and the junction is reduced to a mount.

 

[DriftinFool]

anything more then 4 engines and the junction is reduced to a mount.

Well that sucks because my 8 engines only combined to transfer power and then split back to multiple machines..Like 8 steam engines running 2 grinders. Guess I will have to run side by side shafts instead of combining them.

 

[keybounce]

Hi sorry that I couldn't answer earlier. I started now the Server with these parameters. It happened first when I ran a Rotarycraft-Boringmachine for a very long time. And now it only laggs when the boring machine is enabled.
I tried to open the file, after the lagg happened.
Here, get the last 1000 lines - I hope there is something in there, that can help you.
http://pastebin.com/D5dVV43d

Well, the first thing: You are not running into garbage collection or low memory issues.
Garbage collection happens about every 20-30 seconds, only triggers minor collections (no full collections in that log at all), and stays short (real time around 0.04 seconds).

Now: you've got tiny long-term memory, almost all of your memory is allocated to short-term memory. Your collection threshold is 1 -- meaning that after two of those, things are promoted to long-term. But that's oddly enough -- 30-45 seconds is enough to clear out trash (mostly from hostiles that are created and removed 30-40 seconds later).

I'm curious as to the rest of your startup parameters -- parts of that log don't look like I'm used to seeing.

But it's not out of memory, it's not GC lag -- those are working just fine.

 

[aTeLe]

Well, the first thing: You are not running into garbage collection or low memory issues.
Garbage collection happens about every 20-30 seconds, only triggers minor collections (no full collections in that log at all), and stays short (real time around 0.04 seconds).

Now: you've got tiny long-term memory, almost all of your memory is allocated to short-term memory. Your collection threshold is 1 -- meaning that after two of those, things are promoted to long-term. But that's oddly enough -- 30-45 seconds is enough to clear out trash (mostly from hostiles that are created and removed 30-40 seconds later).

I'm curious as to the rest of your startup parameters -- parts of that log don't look like I'm used to seeing.

But it's not out of memory, it's not GC lag -- those are working just fine.

First: Thank you so much for answering. It's a weirdly complex issue and I'm very thankful of every single piece of information I can get. The thing I know for sure is, the lagg spikes have to do something with the boring machine (Enchanted with Efficiency IV and Silk Touch, maximum size, getting 0,5MW with 16k Torque, ~9 seconds per action), and because it happened not in the beginning when the machine ran, I figure it has to do something with generating new chunks or something, but I don't have big problems with running around in new chunks e.g. in new dimensions. The laggs are around 10-20 seconds I think.

I guess when there is no problem with everything being short-term-memory - it isn't so bad, is it?

My other parameters are basicly the standard ones that are given to you when you download the modpack.
I'm now using:
java -Xms4096m -Xmx4096m -XX: PermSize=128m -jar FTBServer-1.6.4-965.jar nogui

I doubled the Xms and Xmx values recently (exactly before I added your other parameters) because we have a lot of RAM in the server. So with your paramaters it was:
java -Xms4096m -Xmx4096m -XX: PermSize=128m -XX:+PrintGCDateStamps -XX:+PrintHeapAtGC -XX:+PrintTenuringDistribution -XX:+PrintGCDetails -Xloggc:GC.log -jar FTBServer-1.6.4-965.jar nogui

Well, I still don't know how fix this issue ;/

 

[abculatter_2]

I had an idea for a realistic and balanced form of fluid/gas voiding; Add a vant block which, when surrounded by water, will occasionally make a check for both biome and the number of contiguous water source blocks connected to it. (While also pathing through flow blocks) Additionally, when the first fluid/gas enters it, it will be locked at that fluid/gas until cleaned with a block of wool. The combination of these will determine the maximum amount of fluid (but not gases) which it can void without negative environmental effects. These effects would be determined by the type of fluid/gas being voided.
For gases, it would be basically the same but with air instead of water.

For the mechanics, biomes considered 'windy', such as mountains or plains, would receive a multiplier for gasses. while water biomes such as oceans and rivers would receive a multiplier for fluids. This would be combined to the number of water/air blocks found, which would first be multiplied by so many millibuckets. Then, once the type of fluid/gas is determined, this would then have another multiplier attached to the fluid/gas type based on how hazardous it is.
For example, water would have a huge multiplier for dissipation, since it's not very hazardous at all, while uranium hexaflouride would have such an insanely small multiplier as to be essentially impossible to get rid of safely.

Also, it would be nice to have an adjustable slider in the block's GUI which determines the maximum amount of stuff that can go through the vent, which may require energy input to work.

 

[Neko77025]

Hello ppl , Reika love your mods.

Few things I think would work great with your mod.


Drill / Well Maker. Makes A infinite water. Have it set up to where, you face it down and when you uses its gui you can put shafts in it. Once it reaches Bedrock it turns into A Well and makes A slow infinite water. You can then Add/"upgrade it" with a pump. The more rads you put into it the faster it will make water. (lets get rid of the need for the Aqueous Accumulator)

Geothermal Steam generator. It will make steam from the core of the world. It would work like the Drill / Well however it would be made from all bedrock. So would take the bedrock braker before you could get it. It would Also take new pipes to pump the steam out. You would need pump water into the Drill from your well at A very high pressure. WIth this being Free steam .. would need too be late game. They would just get the steam, now they have use it with one of your turbines or something.

(this is going A little off scope of your mod. But you could have teirs of drills ..
1st teir (Ironhead/stone shaftes) gets water.
2nd Teir (diamond head/iron shafts) makes A oil / gas well / fracking well (these would only make so much .. would have to move)
3tier (bedrock everything) Free steam as long as you pump water from teir 1 well @ X rads..

Large Scale Dam turbine Multiblock structures. Not sure how you could set it up .. power would be based on how much goes around it and how many waterblocks are behind (pressure) [ I have no clue what I am talking about here Lo] this is not the same as your hydrokinetic Engine. (think HoverDAM)

Would Love A larger Wind Turbine ... mid / end game one. Like the Wind farm ones.

Light wall , Like the bridge but walls !

Rotary engine Lower tier fuel eng. They dont need the cooling that the others do and get better fuel performance however less power. Rotary engs tend too be lighter and dont get as hot.

And ... When you can ... new pipes, I hate your pipes, But i still love you. I like gregtechs pipes .. Steal his LOL.[DOUBLEPOST=1413767826,1413725423][/DOUBLEPOST]I swear ... when i was sleeping was dreaming of rotarycraft.

Livestock mill / grinder. Hook Cows or Horses up to A spinning shaft with leads. Would be A low tier multiblock Macarator /griendstone. Would need upkeep. Use stone slabs at first tier and iron base plates @ 2nd teir. Horses are A bit faster then cows. However to make sure it is not overpowerd and only use for early game. Make sure it only has one slot for ores and can not have any hoppers or pipes attached to it. This would be slow like the AE grindstone, however big, takes livestock, needs upkeep .. nice early game ore doubler.

Ok for the next thing. I think this would be epic and it fits with the scope of all your Items. However I think it would be alot of work. And maybe another addon.

Modular Mechs. Think Powersuit that uses parts from your mod. These would be 5x2 block suits. If you think about it your mod has all the parts, Engines,Gearboxes, transmission, Weapons, Drills, Lube, Coolants ect. Their would be 2 tiers Steel and bedrock, with 2x sets of workings. Gears or electronics (electriccraft).

Both tiers would have the same slots however tier 2 could have better tech.
If based on Gears you will need Lube reservoir
If based on Electriccraft you will need, coolant Water or LN2(upgrade)

Both mechs would give A speed jump boost and no fall dmg.

Upgrades,
Gearboxs / CVT. This would add how many types of Addons you can run.
Jetpacks it would take 4x of yours to make one mech addon.
Engine/ Batter types. better = faster. Gas Turbine = Best . However Charged coil will work and does not get A slot for fuel.
Shoulders you can Attach weapons too. And you have A ton of them.
Arms / hand / Tools. bedrock braker for a drill .. however would not brake bedrock .. would just be A large drill for mining. Chainsaw for getting wood.

Main use of lower teir mech would be travel and exploring. It would be faster and running but could not fly. However .. this is the main thing I would love. (so know how when you get A horse your are all happy cause your are way faster, But you cant go threw forest or shalow water. Well the Mechs can. They can walk in water 2x blocks deep and .. when they walk near trees (wood/ Leafs) they brake the blocks .. Delete them (can not use for getting wood).
so you can walk threw a forest would out trying too pathfind.

Anyhow , you mod has all the parts for Mechs, I would make Like A mech dock and you would have too park it their to change out the parts. (something like steves crarts but ..bigger)

And .. if you do that .. might as well helecopters

 

[Wagon153]

Hello ppl , Reika love your mods.

Few things I think would work great with your mod.


Drill / Well Maker. Makes A infinite water. Have it set up to where, you face it down and when you uses its gui you can put shafts in it. Once it reaches Bedrock it turns into A Well and makes A slow infinite water. You can then Add/"upgrade it" with a pump. The more rads you put into it the faster it will make water. (lets get rid of the need for the Aqueous Accumulator)

Geothermal Steam generator. It will make steam from the core of the world. It would work like the Drill / Well however it would be made from all bedrock. So would take the bedrock braker before you could get it. It would Also take new pipes to pump the steam out. You would need pump water into the Drill from your well at A very high pressure. WIth this being Free steam .. would need too be late game. They would just get the steam, now they have use it with one of your turbines or something.

(this is going A little off scope of your mod. But you could have teirs of drills ..
1st teir (Ironhead/stone shaftes) gets water.
2nd Teir (diamond head/iron shafts) makes A oil / gas well / fracking well (these would only make so much .. would have to move)
3tier (bedrock everything) Free steam as long as you pump water from teir 1 well @ X rads..

Large Scale Dam turbine Multiblock structures. Not sure how you could set it up .. power would be based on how much goes around it and how many waterblocks are behind (pressure) [ I have no clue what I am talking about here Lo] this is not the same as your hydrokinetic Engine. (think HoverDAM)

Would Love A larger Wind Turbine ... mid / end game one. Like the Wind farm ones.

Light wall , Like the bridge but walls !

Rotary engine Lower tier fuel eng. They dont need the cooling that the others do and get better fuel performance however less power. Rotary engs tend too be lighter and dont get as hot.

And ... When you can ... new pipes, I hate your pipes, But i still love you. I like gregtechs pipes .. Steal his LOL.[DOUBLEPOST=1413767826,1413725423][/DOUBLEPOST]I swear ... when i was sleeping was dreaming of rotarycraft.

Livestock mill / grinder. Hook Cows or Horses up to A spinning shaft with leads. Would be A low tier multiblock Macarator /griendstone. Would need upkeep. Use stone slabs at first tier and iron base plates @ 2nd teir. Horses are A bit faster then cows. However to make sure it is not overpowerd and only use for early game. Make sure it only has one slot for ores and can not have any hoppers or pipes attached to it. This would be slow like the AE grindstone, however big, takes livestock, needs upkeep .. nice early game ore doubler.

Ok for the next thing. I think this would be epic and it fits with the scope of all your Items. However I think it would be alot of work. And maybe another addon.

Modular Mechs. Think Powersuit that uses parts from your mod. These would be 5x2 block suits. If you think about it your mod has all the parts, Engines,Gearboxes, transmission, Weapons, Drills, Lube, Coolants ect. Their would be 2 tiers Steel and bedrock, with 2x sets of workings. Gears or electronics (electriccraft).

Both tiers would have the same slots however tier 2 could have better tech.
If based on Gears you will need Lube reservoir
If based on Electriccraft you will need, coolant Water or LN2(upgrade)

Both mechs would give A speed jump boost and no fall dmg.

Upgrades,
Gearboxs / CVT. This would add how many types of Addons you can run.
Jetpacks it would take 4x of yours to make one mech addon.
Engine/ Batter types. better = faster. Gas Turbine = Best . However Charged coil will work and does not get A slot for fuel.
Shoulders you can Attach weapons too. And you have A ton of them.
Arms / hand / Tools. bedrock braker for a drill .. however would not brake bedrock .. would just be A large drill for mining. Chainsaw for getting wood.

Main use of lower teir mech would be travel and exploring. It would be faster and running but could not fly. However .. this is the main thing I would love. (so know how when you get A horse your are all happy cause your are way faster, But you cant go threw forest or shalow water. Well the Mechs can. They can walk in water 2x blocks deep and .. when they walk near trees (wood/ Leafs) they brake the blocks .. Delete them (can not use for getting wood).
so you can walk threw a forest would out trying too pathfind.

Anyhow , you mod has all the parts for Mechs, I would make Like A mech dock and you would have too park it their to change out the parts. (something like steves crarts but ..bigger)

And .. if you do that .. might as well helecopters

And for proof it's doable irl.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton
http://venturebeat.com/2012/08/01/13-foot-high-robot-kurata/

 

[Reika]

And for proof it's doable irl.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton
http://venturebeat.com/2012/08/01/13-foot-high-robot-kurata/

No, this is not at all within RC's domain, nor does it have a good use case.

 

[1M Industries]

No, this is not at all within RC's domain, nor does it have a good use case.

I fully agree. Not only is there already a pump in your mods, you have also dismissed the hydro dam before, oil is totally out of the scope of your mods, but on top of it, there is a Mech suit mod already. Yoglabs did an episode on it.

 

[AdmiralKirov]

I don' t know if it has been asked before but, how about tweaking the fuel enhancher so that half of the BC fuel is actually refined in jet fuel and the other half, wich is supposed to be made of the heavier, oily and dirty components of the liquid i think, be expelled from the machine as lubricant, instead of vanishing?

 

[Reika]

I don' t know if it has been asked before but, how about tweaking the fuel enhancher so that half of the BC fuel is actually refined in jet fuel and the other half, wich is supposed to be made of the heavier, oily and dirty components of the liquid i think, be expelled from the machine as lubricant, instead of vanishing?

While the idea of converting it to something else is not a bad one, it would be unlikely to be usable as anything and would also require more complex piping systems, including liquid sorting.

 

[AdmiralKirov]

While the idea of converting it to something else is not a bad one, it would be unlikely to be usable as anything and would also require more complex piping systems, including liquid sorting.

I' was sure you wouldn't let someone achieve something that easy
I think that this byproduct could be used "As Is" with nerfed properties or refined furthermore, maybe mixing it with some additives, and finally filtered, yelding synthetic lubricant, and of course some waste stuff that has nasty effects on the enviroment, it' s inhabitants and could be used to produce low-cost low-quality toys for baby villagers!

 

[Pyure]

Would you ever have interest in programming an "Interface" block, a sort of machine extender? Now that your machines are requiring more and more piping (lubricant), users might find it easier to assemble interesting builds with more faces to work with.

Possibly "sneaky" interaction as a bedrock tier if that wouldn't be overpowered.

I'm picturing gears and arms inside processing inputs and outputs. I can't think of a good name for this block.

Like most things this has been done by other modders. Players can probably get by with Refined Relocation if they want to. Your own take on it might be interesting and better balanced however.

 

[Reika]

Would you ever have interest in programming an "Interface" block, a sort of machine extender? Now that your machines are requiring more and more piping (lubricant), users might find it easier to assemble interesting builds with more faces to work with.

Possibly "sneaky" interaction as a bedrock tier if that wouldn't be overpowered.

I'm picturing gears and arms inside processing inputs and outputs. I can't think of a good name for this block.

Like most things this has been done by other modders. Players can probably get by with Refined Relocation if they want to. Your own take on it might be interesting and better balanced however.

I doubt this could be done with one block that can handle every machine without special-casing each one, though I like the idea.

Also, side note: Due to some sort of (possibly severe) error, I have lost posting abilities on the MCF for the next 4-5 days, until further notice (and an intervention from the moderators).

EDIT:
Apparently logging in on a public network (shared IP) is a very bad idea. From a moderator on MCF:

...it came to my attention that the account was created under the exact same IP as yours.
For that reason, the account has been banned and the main account warned. The main account being this one.

 

[trajing]

A shared IP being grounds for a warning is bad policy.

 

[Reika]

A shared IP being grounds for a warning is bad policy.

And a 5-day posting ban, too. I have appealed it, but we have to wait to see if they are feeling generous.