Bees?

[Pascal van Ratingen]

Greetings everyone.

I am done some research on bee breeding altho i could not find the right answer or maybe i have not understand it completely. So i wanted to ask it here, how do i breed bees. I got loads of chests full of hybrids, but it seems to me impossible to get some princesses that are pure. Ive collected over 200 hives and somehow they all leave me with hybrids.

So far i have a automatic set of Cultivateds, commons and dilegents, but the rest simply wont work.

If i am right, i have to keep breeding hive bees for a small chance of common queens, and that goes also for the cultivated. But what if the queen fails and gets towards Hybrade?

If anyone with bee breed fingers can guide me in the right way or have some advise for me to make this a little bit more clear.


Thanks for reading, Calmz.

 

[tehBlobLord]

I don't completely understand your question, but in general bees aren't something you can just throw yourself into, they're pretty complex at times.
Try reading up on them in wikis and stuff first, here are a few pointers:

GenerikB's "Beecademy" series is pretty good, albeit simplistic, and should prove helpful to bee newbies (newbees?).
http://mc.nessirojgaming.eu/bees/index.php?title=Main_Page This wiki should be able to help you understand the basics.

You can find more by google searching if you want

 

[whizzball1]

Greetings everyone.

I am done some research on bee breeding altho i could not find the right answer or maybe i have not understand it completely. So i wanted to ask it here, how do i breed bees. I got loads of chests full of hybrids, but it seems to me impossible to get some princesses that are pure. Ive collected over 200 hives and somehow they all leave me with hybrids.

So far i have a automatic set of Cultivateds, commons and dilegents, but the rest simply wont work.

If i am right, i have to keep breeding hive bees for a small chance of common queens, and that goes also for the cultivated. But what if the queen fails and gets towards Hybrade?

If anyone with bee breed fingers can guide me in the right way or have some advise for me to make this a little bit more clear.


Thanks for reading, Calmz.

When you breed, you have to know what to breed.
I would suggest breeding Common And Cultivated together.
Let's say you wanted Noble.
Common and Cultivated make Noble and Diligent.
I guarantee you will get at least one of the hybrids when you are done.
Let's say you get a Cultivated-Diligent Princess and a Noble-Cultivated and Cultivated-Diligent drone.
Breed the Princess with the Noble-Cultivated Drone.
Every time you get offspring, breed the preferable offspring.
This is how you can get cool traits like Full Tolerance and things like that.
If you had wanted Diligent, you could breed the Cultivated-Diligent Princess and Drone together and most likely get a Purebred Cultivated and Purebred Diligent Drone, and maybe a hybrid Princess.
Of course, Random Numbers rule the day, I'm just putting out likely outputs.

 

[snooder]

To breed bees, you need to understand how a "Punnet Square" works.

Bees have two sides to every trait. Active and Inactive. Species is considered a trait. When you breed two bees together, the offspring will take one trait from one bee and the other trait from the other bee. So if you get a pure forest bee from the hive, it'll have Forest-Forest. That is, its 'active' species will be forest and the 'inactive' species will also be forest. If you breed this with a pure meadows bee, if you pay attention to the punnet square, you will always get a hybrid. This is because the trait from the forest bee will always be 'forest' and the trait from the meadows bee will always be 'meadows'. It helps if you draw it out.

Where bee breeding differs from pure punnet square math is with mutations. To get a 'new' species, the bee has to mutate from a hybrid. Basically, there is a small percent chance that a given hybrid might have one or both traits turn into a new species. For example, a forest/meadows hybrid has a ~20% chance to turn into a common bee. Note, this will not turn it into a pure common. I'm not 100% sure of the code, but you can actually get a common-forest or common-meadows hybrid as easily as a common-common pure.

So what do you do to get the pure bred bees you need? Do you just have to rely on luck? No. You can breed the common-forest with another hybrid and utilize the punnet square math for a chance at a pure bred common. if you draw out the crossbreed, you will note that a common-X and common-Y hybrid breeding will give you a 25% chance at a common-common pure, a 50% chance at a common-X/Y hybrid and a 25% chance at an X-Y bee. So basically, if you keep breeding the hybrids sensibly, you'll eventually get a pure.

The key point to this is to remember to analyze the bees. It's very important to know what the traits are on BOTH sides of the bee. The difference between a Common-Common to Common-Common bee breeding pair and a Common-Meadows to Common-Meadows breeding pair is the difference between a 100% chance of common and a 25% chance of Meadows.

 

[Pascal van Ratingen]

Thanks alot for the replys, this makes it not easy, but alot more clear now. I was putting all hybrids i got into a apiarys chest and the "pure's" into another. But i saw the chest filling up quickly. I will make some more apiarys and learn on how to fix the hybrid ones. I got alot to learn, and have seen the clips of GenericBee , but he showed the pure lines only thats what was confusing me. I do know a little how the lines work, but the hybrids confusing me alot.

So if i understand right i have to breed with a Hybrid Meadows(something) with another Hive bee? Or just stick with meadow Hybrid(something) / Meadows?

Cheers. and thx for feedback.

 

[whizzball1]

So if i understand right i have to breed with a Hybrid Meadows(something) with another Hive bee? Or just stick with meadow Hybrid(something) / Meadows?

Cheers. and thx for feedback.

Say you wanted a bunch of common bees and you had some hybrid Meadows and a bunch of other hive bees.
As long as the bee has the two specific genes for the wanted breed, it can result in the breed, but if one of the specific genes is inactive, then it might be a little harder to get your breed.
So let's say you had a Meadows-Marshy Princess and a Forest drone.
Breed them together and continue breeding until you get your first common hybrid (which will probably come in the first try, depends on the chance of the breeding to occur), and then breed the common hybrids until you get a purebred common.
The next step would be to purify the other, less thought of traits like tolerance.

 

[egor66]

heads up on hybrid most you dont bother keeping there used for dna or trashed, or you will end up lagging from just the number of entities stored, DO NOT autofill an indexer its a bottomless pit & will lag sooner or later, if your going the DNA rout you only need to keep princesses & 10 of each drone, if your going the cloning rout a couple of stacks of drones for the bee your cloning the rest is can 10-64. there are a lot of species if your using forrestry/TC/EB/& magic bees so dont even try keep all bees, if on a server you will lag it if offline your map will be unplayable after a while.

its one of the reasons in most any vid you see there using pures only as thats all most of us keep.

 

[whizzball1]

Oops!
I completely misunderstood your intentions.
You want to purify the bee?
Simple.
Say you had a Meadows-Marshy Princess and Drone.
When they die, the process is simple:
Breed together the bees with the most of the wanted trait.
Say the bee resulted in a Common-Meadows Princess and a Purebred Meadows and Marshy-common hybrid.
Breed the Princess with the Purebred Meadows.
This time you will receive only Commons, Cultivateds, and Meadows.
Say you got a Cultivated-Meadows Princess, a Purebred Common drone, and a Cultivated Meadows Drone.
Combine the latter drone with the princess, and you should result in only Cultivateds and Meadows.
Continue the process until you get full Meadow offspring, and then purify the other traits.

 

[egor66]

Oops!
I completely misunderstood your intentions.
You want to purify the bee?
Simple.
Say you had a Meadows-Marshy Princess and Drone.
When they die, the process is simple:
Breed together the bees with the most of the wanted trait.
Say the bee resulted in a Common-Meadows Princess and a Purebred Meadows and Marshy-common hybrid.
Breed the Princess with the Purebred Meadows.
This time you will receive only Commons, Cultivateds, and Meadows.
Say you got a Cultivated-Meadows Princess, a Purebred Common drone, and a Cultivated Meadows Drone.
Combine the latter drone with the princess, and you should result in only Cultivateds and Meadows.
Continue the process until you get full Meadow offspring, and then purify the other traits.

http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/bee-question-to-the-experts.21065/
Didnt we go over this a couple of times in the past, in one it got fairly in dept too, not berating the OP but a simple search would show the results of the last bee topic thats was more less the same if I remember.

 

[whizzball1]

Didnt we go over this a couple of times in the past, in one it got fairly in dept too, not berating the OP but a simple search would show the results of the last bee topic thats was more less the same if I remember.

AFAIK, I think I have elaborated on this exact same topic on some other threads, but the names weren't very obvious.

 

[Runo]

I suggest caving and barrowing a little bit for oblivion frames. Bee breeding prior to industrious and imperial bees takes an insane amount of time without them, though you will have to set up another apiary or two just for honey

 

[snooder]

Thanks alot for the replys, this makes it not easy, but alot more clear now. I was putting all hybrids i got into a apiarys chest and the "pure's" into another. But i saw the chest filling up quickly. I will make some more apiarys and learn on how to fix the hybrid ones. I got alot to learn, and have seen the clips of GenericBee , but he showed the pure lines only thats what was confusing me. I do know a little how the lines work, but the hybrids confusing me alot.

So if i understand right i have to breed with a Hybrid Meadows(something) with another Hive bee? Or just stick with meadow Hybrid(something) / Meadows?

Cheers. and thx for feedback.

It depends on what you are trying to do.

There are two different phenomena at work and each requires a different breeding strategy.

The first phenomena is "Purification". This is when you have a hybrid that's only half the species you want and you are trying to get a bee that's fully the species you want.
The second phenomena is "Mutation". This is when you are just trying to get a brand new species and are starting with bees that have nothing of the species you want.

Both of them require mastery of the Punnet square, but for different purposes.

With Purification, you are taking a hybrid. Like a Common-rocky. And trying find the breeding partner that will give the highest probability of a pure. So for example, with that Common-Rocky, if you want to get a Pure bred common, the highest chance is with another pure bred common. If you do the math, that gives you a 75% of getting a pure bred common. The next highest shot is with Common-(whatever) hybrid. That gives you a 25% of getting the purebred common. Do it over an over again with the best pairs from each generation and throw away the rest of the offspring until you get a pure princess and pure drone that will always produce pure offspring.

With Mutation on the other hand, your goal is actually to find the pair that will give the highest probability of a hybrid that can mutate. Here, given how the math works, the best chance for a hybrid is to match two pure bees of different species. So for example, if you want to get a common bee, you'll need a hybrid hive bee. So your best chance is with a Pure Forest and a Pure Meadows (or Rocky, Marshy, e.t.c.). This gives you a full 100% probability of a hybrid. After that, if you didn't get a mutation you just have to repeat the process until one of the hybrids you gets mutates. Then you start doing the purification process. The fact that pure bees are the best shot at getting the mutation you want is the reason why people focus so much on getting pure strains and just throw away any extra hybrids. Because it's actually faster and less time consuming to start over with two fresh pures than it is to try to breed a mutation out of hybrids.

 

[whizzball1]

In all reality, the Punnet Square isn't as needed as some may think.
It is almost guaranteed that you will get at least one gene for each gene of the offspring, unless you have four different species together.
Most of the time you will only be breeding with three species at the most.
The best thing to do is to find something with one or more active genes for what you want.
This is basically what the Punnet Square is dedicated to finding, but it's easy without also.
All you need to do is find the two bees that have the most of the active trait you want.
If you have 4 Active traits, why are you even trying to Purify?
Say you had wanted to purify a Noble bee.
You have 2 Princesses, a Noble-Ancient and an Ancient-Noble.
The obvious choice would be the Noble Ancient, as it has the Active trait, and offspring has more of a chance to get the active trait as active.
Then you have 3 Drones, a Noble-Noble (Purebred), Noble-Ancient, and Ancient Noble.
The obvious choice would be Noble Purebred, and the second would be Noble Ancient, and the last Ancient Noble.
Once you have figured out this simple system of "How many wanted Active Traits are there," Punnet Squares are entirely unnecessary and a waste of time.
EDIT: It's a little funny when two half expert apiarists argue about which is the best system.
I'm laughing at myself.
No seriously.

 

[Airship]

This might be a bit hijacky, but, anyone here know something about how the dominant and recessive traits works?I usually just go with the punnet square when trying to transfer traits from one bee species to another without using the extra bees machines, and it has worked well in the past, but how does the dominant and recessive traits work into the equation? Red text, blue text... I mean it's clearly a part of it, but does it have an actual effect on things?