Bees: Spiteful/Hateful Queen Not Mutating?

Brotuulaan

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Jan 14, 2018
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I've got an alveary set up with a stimulator for mutating nether bees, and it's worked fine for a few other bees already. But for some reason, my eldritch/infernal bees are not mutating into a hateful bee (same for embittered/cultivated into spiteful). I've put them through something like 40 generations, and with a 9% mutation chance, it should have happened by now if it was all set up correctly. Granted, I have to put the queen into an overworld alveary/apiary whenever the queen becomes an eldritch/infernal since an eldritch bee cannot produce in a nether biome. Then I stick it back in the proper alveary once the queen becomes an infernal/eldritch again.

I've noticed that some of the tooltips when you hover over the percentage chance read "Occurs within a nether biome" while others read "Is restricted to NETHER-LIKE biomes."

Is this difference in the tooltip indicative of different requirements or merely different text from different mods that indicate the same requirements? Perhaps this is something the stimulator can't allow to breed in the overworld?
 
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Pyure

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I feel like you should try to science this out in creative. Its possible you've identified a bit of a bug with the alveary's ability to simulate a Nether environment.
 

Brotuulaan

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Hm. Yeah, I guess I'll do that. I'll set up a bunch of alvearies with a couple different breeds and have them cycle through for a while. These bees come from the Magic Bees mod, so it could be that just those nether bees won't breed. That would really stink, but maybe I'll find a pattern.
 

GreenZombie

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Jul 29, 2019
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The stimulator is a component of Binnies mod and the Infernal Bee is from magic bees.
Binnies Mod will have catered for Forestry Bees and its own, but as testing the biome is a forge feature not part of Forestry the biome override provided by the stimulator will go unnoticed by Magic Bees unless explicit support was added. So its either a bug/oversight if either Binnies or Magic Bees claims special compatibility with the other, or its just a consequence of different mods have different mechanics - even though in this case they are addons to the same base mod.

At any rate, what seems necessary is to use a different mod that can change biome to create an actual nether/nether-like biome, lacking that capability, do the breeding in the nether itself.
 

Brotuulaan

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Jan 14, 2018
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The overview for Magic Bees on Curseforge lists several supported mods, but Extra Bees is not listed.

https://minecraft.curseforge.com/projects/magic-bees?gameCategorySlug=mc-mods&projectID=65764

Does this mean that Binnie's stimulator is incompatible with the magic bees generally? I haven't noticed whether overworld magic bees have not jumped production with the stimulator running up production.

Here are some thoughts I have for an experiment:

-I find four bee species with the same biome requirements and production rate for, say honeycombs--one forestry, one Extra Bees, and two Magic Bees.
-Set them up with identical super-production rigs, and run them for a little while.
-Compare the honeycomb output from each alveary.
-If the output generally matches for all four, the stimulator works at least in some ways for Magic Bees, even if only in terms of production. Obviously biome simulation is a radically different feature, as the production probably simply increases the tick rate.

How does that sound?
 
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Brotuulaan

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I guess I didn't mention previously, but this is within Infinity Evolved. I don't know what other mods may do biome simulation that I could substitute for the stimulator, and I don't know which of those mods may be in this pack. I'm looking through the mods list to see if anything obvious jumps out at me.
 
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GreenZombie

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Well, there are a couple of assumptions there I make as someone who develops software myself, but not minecraft or forestry mods specifically:
* A well written base mode extension API would provide abstractions that meant that different add-on implementations wouldn't have to know about each other and still work together.
* Any particular add-on that wanted to extend the features offered by the base mod would try to do so within the confines on the base mod api.

So we can expect most of the features of Magic Bees and Binnies Mod to work, as most of the what-breeds-with-what,what-produces-what-and-how-much is registered with Forestry.

However, In this case an extension to base functionality was added (the stimulator block) but as the set of conditions that mods adding Forestry Bees could use to control mutation results is rather open, Forestry didn't provide in its API a way for bee addons to discover and influence the mutation decisions made by each mod. So Binnies can only support the biome override with its own bees and Forestry Bees (which it can inject code to influence).
 
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Brotuulaan

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Jan 14, 2018
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Just ran some initial tests, and here are my results:

I set up an alveary with four stimulators maxed out with four diamantine tubes on intricate circuit boards. I don't know whether they do truly stack, but I'm guessing they do to some extent because of the fast production, as you'll see in a minute.

I put a plumbum bee (magic bees) into it, and it took about two minutes to produce 5 honeycomb. Plumbum bees have a 10% chance to produce a honeycomb.

I replaced the plumbum bee with a diamond bee (extra bees), and it produced 5 diamond combs in the same amount of time. Diamond bees have a 1% chance to produce a diamond comb (under its special conditions).

I put a forest bee (forestry) in the alveary, and it had produced 5 honeycomb in just a bit over two minutes. Forest bees have a 30% chance to produce honeycomb.

So the stimulator most certainly works in-house with its own bees (diamond bee), but it seemed less effective with both forestry and magic bees. I'll run it for longer and see if the pattern holds.
 
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Brotuulaan

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Jan 14, 2018
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All three of those bees have slowest production by default, so at least there's that. I let the diamond run a full cycle to see how much it produced before I realized I hadn't checked stats, and it turns out that while plumbum and forest bees share a shortest lifespan, diamond bees have a shorter lifespan, so full cycles each would have thrown the results way off.

I haven't gotten into gendustry yet, so I'll have to start learning how that works in creative mode and duplicate their stats before doing more tests. I really don't feel like breeding everything in creative. Feels silly.
 

GreenZombie

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Good grief if you have Gendustry why are you messing around breeding bees.
It literally has a machine that you put a princess and drone into, shows you the registered outputs and you choose the one you want, and a purebred queen comes out, both sets of alleles the new species ideal/perfect genotype.
 

Brotuulaan

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Jan 14, 2018
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I don't have gendustry in my play world yet, so I have to breed there. I'm talking about my creative test world, where I can grab whatever materials I want and can make my bees into what I want right away.