Bee breeding insanity

[trinityamc]

Since ftb expert mode forced me to not just go for gendustry right off i have to Take the painful forestry Route of bee breeding now and pretty fast realized i Dont unterstand the whole thing
Biggest question is the whole pure breeding matter
If anyone could explain that to for noobs i'd very much appreciate that
And maybe even Provide me with a list with what to breed to get pures
I just know theyre good but not really why -_-
Thanks!

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[malicious_bloke]

Do you mean pure as in Pure Bees (the species you can stick near tainted nodes to clear them or something)? Or pure breeds as in removing the recessive traits?

If it's the former, look them up in NEI, it gives you a crafting recipe consisting of both parents. Then you can click on the parents to get the parent species for both of those etc, going all the way back to basic hive bees.

 

[trinityamc]

I mean pure bred bees
I ever got some breeded by now but still Dont u derstand the whole thing behind that
Cant i with that copy bees?
If i have for example water bees with forest trait and breed 2 of those together is that gonna give me a forest bee?

Do you mean pure as in Pure Bees (the species you can stick near tainted nodes to clear them or something)? Or pure breeds as in removing the recessive traits?

If it's the former, look them up in NEI, it gives you a crafting recipe consisting of both parents. Then you can click on the parents to get the parent species for both of those etc, going all the way back to basic hive bees.

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[Nedrith]

So If I remember right what happens is say you wanted to breed to bees together, Let's say a pure industrial drone and pure forest princess for example. a pure industrial bee has a dominant of industrial and a recessive of industrial and the same for the foreset bee. when you combine them you'll get a princess with a dominant of either forest or industrial and a a recessive of the other the drones will turn out the same way. the dominant will set the type of the bee. so a industrial/forest will be a industrial bee and forest/industrial will be a forest bee.

Now let's say the goal of this is to turn the princess into a pure industrial bee. so take another pure industrial drone and breed it with the princess which let's say was forest/industrial. when you breed it the princess will give one of the species traits and the drone will give the other. so you have a 50% chance the princess will give the industrial trait and a 50% chance the princess will give the forest trait. The Drone is pure so it will always give industrial. This means you have a 25% chance to end up with a industrial/forest, a 25% chance for forest/industrial and a 50% chance to get a industrial/industrial princess, same thing with the drones.

Simplified version of this is to prioritize the drone that's closest to pure of the species you want when breeding with a princess and it's luck based. having 4 fertility when mutating species is always nice also. all the other stats are mostly secondary unless you are looking for the combs.

 

[GreenZombie]

Since ftb expert mode forced me to not just go for gendustry right off i have to Take the painful forestry Route of bee breeding now and pretty fast realized i Dont unterstand the whole thing
Biggest question is the whole pure breeding matter
If anyone could explain that to for noobs i'd very much appreciate that
And maybe even Provide me with a list with what to breed to get pures
I just know theyre good but not really why -_-
Thanks!

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I wrote a thing about bees here that may, or may not, be helpful: http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/bees-in-ftb-are-the-worst-addition-ever.144590/#post-1581661

To answer your specific question: Forestry Bees have a number of traits, including Species designation, heat tolerance and whether the bee can operate at night. 13 all told. Bees model traditional genetics, so each bee has two copies of each trait - inherited from its parents - if the traits are different, one will be dominant, and the other recessive.

So, you could have a Bee that looks like a Cultivated Bee, but is actually a combination of Cultivated and Common, with the Cultivated being dominant.
When bees are bred, one of each of the traits is picked randomly, without considering which trait was dominant, so a child of a [Cultivated|Common] Bee is just as likely to inherit the Cultivated as it is it inherit the Common, trait from this parent.

With that in mind, a "Pure" bee is a bee that has all identical traits, and when a pure Queen and a pure Drone are bred, the offspring will also have identical traits.
This is very useful as Forestry allows drones with the same traits as other drones to stack - pure bees will produce guaranteed stackable drones.

--
As an aside - if anything can be singled out as "the most wrong" thing with forestry, it is the stackable drones. This prioritizes the importance of "pure" bee gene lines, which, in real life, would be the worst thing - all genepools need variation to remain viable and react to changing environment.

 

[Someone Else 37]

Recommended reading: This section of the Wikipedia page on Mendelian genetics. It doesn't talk about bees, but Forestry's bees use exactly the same principles. I'm not entirely sure offhand which Forestry traits are dominant over which others, but I believe that they are shown in the left-hand column of the Beealyzer.

 

[GreenZombie]

Recommended reading: This section of the Wikipedia page on Mendelian genetics. It doesn't talk about bees, but Forestry's bees use exactly the same principles. I'm not entirely sure offhand which Forestry traits are dominant over which others, but I believe that they are shown in the left-hand column of the Beealyzer.

The dominant traits and recessive traits are given different colors in the Beealyzer - but there are a lot of traits that are equally as dominant as other traits, so one has to be picked randomly.

Sadly, understanding Mendelian genetics is really only of theoretical rather than practical interest with forestry, as the forestry mutation mechanism is not based on that at all, and the importance of drone stacking means that Forestry forces the use of pure-bred bees.

I can see Mendelian genetics coming into play perhaps if one was caught breeding bees manually, and a desired mutation was going to have traits such as Fertility 1, or conflicting traits such as required temperature "hellish" but cannot be bred in a cave (so it must, but can not, work in the nether). Knowing which of these traits are recessive, one could plan the mutation by breeding in dominant traits to prevent any (non-pure) occurrences of the unwanted traits preventing the resulting princess from being unusable.

 

[trinityamc]

So If I remember right what happens is say you wanted to breed to bees together, Let's say a pure industrial drone and pure forest princess for example. a pure industrial bee has a dominant of industrial and a recessive of industrial and the same for the foreset bee. when you combine them you'll get a princess with a dominant of either forest or industrial and a a recessive of the other the drones will turn out the same way. the dominant will set the type of the bee. so a industrial/forest will be a industrial bee and forest/industrial will be a forest bee.

Now let's say the goal of this is to turn the princess into a pure industrial bee. so take another pure industrial drone and breed it with the princess which let's say was forest/industrial. when you breed it the princess will give one of the species traits and the drone will give the other. so you have a 50% chance the princess will give the industrial trait and a 50% chance the princess will give the forest trait. The Drone is pure so it will always give industrial. This means you have a 25% chance to end up with a industrial/forest, a 25% chance for forest/industrial and a 50% chance to get a industrial/industrial princess, same thing with the drones.

Simplified version of this is to prioritize the drone that's closest to pure of the species you want when breeding with a princess and it's luck based. having 4 fertility when mutating species is always nice also. all the other stats are mostly secondary unless you are looking for the combs.

Thats definitely helping
Thanks!

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[asb3pe]

LOL "Welcome to a brand new series, Generikb's BEEcademy"

Well... it was brand new 3 years ago, anyways. LOL

But it's still perhaps the best video tutorial for Forestry beekeeping. Enjoy!

There are six parts in total, here's part 1. The main change to the mod after these videos were made was the addition of "Pristine" bees and "Ignoble" bees. All you really need to know is to "ignore the ignobles". Even tho it takes more time at first, if you only use Pristine Princesses for all your breeding, you'll never have any worries. If you decide to use Ignobles, you can run into some issues that just aren't worth dealing with.

Oh, and Binnie's stuff can be confusing, but it's just too long to type out a tutorial right now. Better to ask questions as they occur. I always use Binnie's mod (Genetics) instead of Gendustry. No shortcuts!

 

[trinityamc]

I wanted to Use genetics too since the bee u need to Start with gendustry in ie-em is end game beekeeping
Then i saw genepool requires some Kind of liquid now and u need a refinery
I almost have enough to make my First alveary now so think i Take the forestry Route until i get that infinity bee
BUT
Thanks anyway im
Definetly gonna watch that

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[trinityamc]

LOL "Welcome to a brand new series, Generikb's BEEcademy"

Well... it was brand new 3 years ago, anyways. LOL

But it's still perhaps the best video tutorial for Forestry beekeeping. Enjoy!

There are six parts in total, here's part 1. The main change to the mod after these videos were made was the addition of "Pristine" bees and "Ignoble" bees. All you really need to know is to "ignore the ignobles". Even tho it takes more time at first, if you only use Pristine Princesses for all your breeding, you'll never have any worries. If you decide to use Ignobles, you can run into some issues that just aren't worth dealing with.

Oh, and Binnie's stuff can be confusing, but it's just too long to type out a tutorial right now. Better to ask questions as they occur. I always use Binnie's mod (Genetics) instead of Gendustry. No shortcuts!

My biggest question is if i have a princess thats Hard to get and i Dont want to make It again how can i copy that the forestry Route?
So far Ive done It breeding the drone of that Type with a mundane princess and It eventually turns into that
Is there an Easier way of doing It without gendustry or genetics?

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[GreenZombie]

My biggest question is if i have a princess thats Hard to get and i Dont want to make It again how can i copy that the forestry Route?
So far Ive done It breeding the drone of that Type with a mundane princess and It eventually turns into that
Is there an Easier way of doing It without gendustry or genetics?

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Whenever you have just a princess, (or just a drone) you are in trouble and anything you do has a high risk of loosing the species. The first step upon finding a new species - regardless of whether you are using plain Forestry, or have Extra Bees (Binnies) or Gendustry, is to breed a stack of drones by looping the bee through an automated apiary. You cannot do this with just one bee.

If the 'unique' princess has a reasonable fertility, and you are in a hurry, you can breed it - in a bee house or non automated apiary - with a drone of some random species with high fertility, and carefully analyze the first (and subsequent) generations. Discard any drones that don't have the desired species at all, keep any drones that look like the wrong species but have the desired species as a recessive trait.
On each generation, sort *all* the drones you have, with any drones with the target species as both their primary and recessive trait being automatically prioritized. Otherwise sort the drones with generally desirable characteristics (Recessive or not), and breed the princess with the "best" drone (keep a careful eye on fertility)
Repeat until you have a princess with a double species trait and a drone with a double species trait - at which point you can breathe a sigh of relief as you are no longer in danger of loosing the species.

Dispose of all the unstackable drones produced, or throw them into the gendustry machines if the species came with other desirable traits that were lost of the final pure breed. I assume that Binnies mods have a similar extract a random trait from a drone mechanic.

 

[Zorkk]

I find in IE:E, my for myself, it's best just to use the forestry mechanics, and rush to the infinity bee that will give you the gendustry power module. After that you can go back and fiddle with traits much easier.

First, get seed oil production going.

Second, breed up to cultivated, preferably with the fast worker trait, as you can hopefully breed this into your industrial and imperial bees. The cultivated line leads to a lot of other species so I recommend having at least 1 breeding pair.

Starting by turning a couple princess' into cultivated ones, you can now breed up to imperial and industrial bees using those. The higher the fertility the better and hopefully you have managed to keep the fast worker trait as it helps with the next part.

Next is an alveary, and you only need one if you are going full gendustry. But it still takes a lot of honey and pollen to make so make multiple copies of the imperial and industrial bees to produce those resources. Obviously the fast trait, and adding frames will help speed this part up. Once you have all 27 alveary blocks you need turn 8 of them into frame housing and 1 each for lighting and rainshield. You may also find you will want the temperature or humidity blocks, depending on how it goes. Lastly, make 3 mutator housing blocks, and setup yer alveary.

So you want to have 8 chocolate frame in the housings, and use eyes of ender in the mutator. With this setup I've found that you will usually get purebred species out of it, with little to no hybrids.
This of course makes it super easy to breed up to the infinity bee, where you can now use gendustry.

Hope this helps some.

Z

 

[trinityamc]

I find in IE:E, my for myself, it's best just to use the forestry mechanics, and rush to the infinity bee that will give you the gendustry power module. After that you can go back and fiddle with traits much easier.

First, get seed oil production going.

Second, breed up to cultivated, preferably with the fast worker trait, as you can hopefully breed this into your industrial and imperial bees. The cultivated line leads to a lot of other species so I recommend having at least 1 breeding pair.

Starting by turning a couple princess' into cultivated ones, you can now breed up to imperial and industrial bees using those. The higher the fertility the better and hopefully you have managed to keep the fast worker trait as it helps with the next part.

Next is an alveary, and you only need one if you are going full gendustry. But it still takes a lot of honey and pollen to make so make multiple copies of the imperial and industrial bees to produce those resources. Obviously the fast trait, and adding frames will help speed this part up. Once you have all 27 alveary blocks you need turn 8 of them into frame housing and 1 each for lighting and rainshield. You may also find you will want the temperature or humidity blocks, depending on how it goes. Lastly, make 3 mutator housing blocks, and setup yer alveary.

So you want to have 8 chocolate frame in the housings, and use eyes of ender in the mutator. With this setup I've found that you will usually get purebred species out of it, with little to no hybrids.
This of course makes it super easy to breed up to the infinity bee, where you can now use gendustry.

Hope this helps some.

Z

It does
Thanks!

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