Balance and what that means...

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Is Minecraft supposed to be balanced or a chaotic sandbox?

  • It's supposed to be balanced.

  • It's supposed to be a chaotic sandbox.


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FyberOptic

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Jul 29, 2019
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Balance can change over time. Like before you could sprint, there were mods that let you run fast, such as quantum suit leggings in IC2. You could look at it two ways; either they were cheating and letting you go a speed you shouldn't have been, letting you evade enemies and everything too easily, or they were great for finally letting you travel farther distances in a reasonable amount of time. Yet these days you can sprint, and even use potions to go faster, so a mod item doing it seems like less of a big deal.

It's similar with enchanting. Before that existed, mods that added powerful tools and weapons might have seemed like overkill. Something that implemented a silk-touch-like ability might have seemed unfair since those items weren't normally available in the game. Similarities to fortune and luck might have seemed like outright cheating for getting free resources. Yet these days it's commonplace for items and tools to have all sorts of buffs and features, since the vanilla game can do it too.

Even stacking food was an issue once upon a time. IC2 let you can it in the canning machine and carry around stacks, while others simply let vanilla food stack outright. Some people might have thought that was unfair, that just popping down cans to keep your life up was close to invincibility since eating was insta-heal back then. On the other hand, it let you adventure longer and mine more since it wasn't cluttering up your inventory space. Yet once beta 1.8 came around, the entire food canning mechanic of IC2 was almost useless, other than maybe for making monster meat usable.

It's not just vanilla changes though. Mod interoperability also often affected balance. Macerating bones and blaze rods completely threw off some of EE2's balance, for example. EE2 is probably not the best example, although EE1 was arguably far more balanced and less affected by other mods. Yet before EE2 came out, EE1 would have been seen as overpowered, since it still created free resources and added powerful weapons/tools. Buildcraft also contributed to that by letting you automate some of the resource creation.

So while it's just stating the obvious and reiterating a lot of what's said, balance will always be relative to the Minecraft version, the mods installed, the particular point in time that you're playing them, and of course the player's idea of balance. All you can do is find a pack that caters more to your liking, or go all Burger King and "have it your way" with a custom pack.
 
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retep998

NoLifeBunny
Wiki Staff
Dec 31, 2012
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Does no one have any self control while playing? It strikes me as incredibly stupid that people feel the need to balance, nerf or disable anything in any mod or modpack. Choices are choices. I can drink 18 beers and get sick. I can make a projectE power flower and have a DSU filled with diamonds. If either doesn't suit me I have the will power to not do them. Sorry for dumb analogy I just get annoyed by the idea of anyone dictating how I play in any way.

The best nerf is simply not doing things that are not fun to you. If you nerf it I will simply cheat mode my ass off.
The problem is servers. In order to create fair gameplay on a server there needs to be balance. I might be able to trust myself to not cheat, but I don't trust the general populace of a server to not abuse exploits or cheaty things especially if it is an open server.
 

SatanicSanta

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Jul 29, 2019
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The problem is servers. In order to create fair gameplay on a server there needs to be balance. I might be able to trust myself to not cheat, but I don't trust the general populace of a server to not abuse exploits or cheaty things especially if it is an open server.
You don't trust me? :(
 

rdemay91

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Jul 29, 2019
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The problem is servers. In order to create fair gameplay on a server there needs to be balance. I might be able to trust myself to not cheat, but I don't trust the general populace of a server to not abuse exploits or cheaty things especially if it is an open server.
I am admin of a server and I've personally found an exploit that was fixed only half way I didn't exploit it much just testing a theory with bedrockium drum full of uu matter and how to dupe it. I periodically checked all the other players and seen what they were working on and none of them were close to exploiting the bug. The server is open but only so many people get on. If that is used for that purpose on the new map I will either ban the first item or just delete it in creative and warn them. I do agree their needs balance for some things and people have exploited the unbalanced things a lot. So far everyone that plays on the server like working towards a goal the long and "grindy" way. Honorable of them for now.
 

Yusunoha

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
6,440
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CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK OFF TOPIC!!?

BKgAp8z.gif
 

Skyqula

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
568
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@FyberOptic I like how all the mechanics mentioned dont actually make other mechanics obsolete. A mechanic lets you walk faster? Your still walking. A mechanic makes you stack food? You still need to collect and use it. A mechanic lets you make more powerfull tools? Your still manually mining. Things like macerators that increase ore output? You still need to manually mine it.

They all reduce the time it takes to do something without making it so you dont need to do it at all. That are great mechanics, more of those!
 

McJty

Over-Achiever
Mod Developer
May 13, 2014
2,015
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I'm personally a big fan of challenging mods and modpacks where you actually have to do a lot of work (provided it is not repetitive and boring of course) to achieve some goal. Complicated recipes for the sake of complicated recipes are obviously not a good idea. But I do like interesting mechanics to create stuff and I also very much like things where I have to do a bit of everything to achieve a goal. Like you have to explore a bit, mine a bit, craft some stuff, setup some machinery and/or altars and so on. Mods that force me to revisit lots of different areas in Minecraft are fun for me.
 
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immibis

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
884
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The problem is servers. In order to create fair gameplay on a server there needs to be balance. I might be able to trust myself to not cheat, but I don't trust the general populace of a server to not abuse exploits or cheaty things especially if it is an open server.
The general populace of a server don't even know what's an exploit. One person's cheating is totally reasonable to another person. So of course the modpack has to be made to forbid things that the modpack creator considers to be exploits.
 
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Sawney

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Jul 29, 2019
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This is a curiosity question. Do server owners need to control exploits simply to control lag? Like if lag did not exist would you still consider anything to be an exploit or let people play in their own little corners any way they like?
 

rdemay91

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Jul 29, 2019
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This is a curiosity question. Do server owners need to control exploits simply to control lag?
I like this question. I know of a exploit that dupes any item with an inventory or filled with liquid and such. The only "lag" that it produces is a single block update every time you send it a pulse. However there is the time in between the pulses that you need to interact with the newly placed block to get the items back out. Then pulse, item disappears(new block update), pulse, item appears(new block update). About same amount of lag as breaking a block replacing and breaking it again. I dont think its all about the lag it could cause for balance at least. One player has access to that and can excel into later stages of the mods using exploits while someone that doesnt know the exploit has to do the "long and grindy" way to progress. In that way balance would mean equal for each person to progress the same. Though this is my opinion and I understand people have their own way of achieving their goals.
 
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Equitime

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Jul 29, 2019
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As a server owner balance is not very important. Players come in many different styles and they should be able to play in the style they want to. Packs should cater for the less advanced and those highly advanced ones who do everything in a pack in a week potentially. When looking at a pack I look for the effect of it on my server. Will making the player do such a thing adversely affect it. Now going back to 'balance' what I particularly like about minecraft is its ability to do whatever you feel like doing when you feel like doing it. This is its great strength. So please don't forget this when building your packs.