Anti-Griefing and Trust with Physics: Keeping Order w/out Bukkit Plugins or Whitelists

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Jul 29, 2019
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x-posting this from /r/feedthebeast. It's a new idea that could be either great or terrible or great and terrible. I learned most of what I know about FTB from these forums, so I think it's time I gave back.

There's a lot, so I'll bold the key bits for skimming.


Forge is brilliant in a lot of ways, but running a civilized public server without robust permissions and anti-griefing is tough. Either your admins become cops, your server becomes Somalia, or you have to hide behind a whitelist... which stagnates the growth of your server and community. None of those options is maximum fun for anyone involved. (Well, maybe for Dwarf Fortress values of FUN!!...)

While building SurvivalTech, we figured out how to open our server to full public participation, while making law enforcement almost entirely unnecessary. My diamonds are in an unlocked chest, less than a minute’s walk from spawn, and I guarantee no one will steal them.

Ladies, Gentlemen, Miners of all ages: Presenting the SurvivalTech DMZ.

What We Did:

New players (“Guests”) are placed in a stable Mystcraft age, open to the public and without permissions, regions, or complex security protocols. IT folks will recognize this right away: we stole a page from perimeter networking theory and created a DMZ dimension using Mystcraft and Simple plugins.

(If you parsed that last sentence as simple, straightforward English, you can skip the next two paragraphs.)

This lets us use the multiverse design of FTB itself as a permissions structure. Players can join SurvivalTech, build, mine, and create whatever they like in this Guest dimension. Chat here is visible throughout the server, so you can introduce yourself and get to know everyone as you play. (Admins have full run of the Multiverse, so you’re not on your own. Don’t panic! (; )

When you’ve played in this Guest world awhile, you can ask to be granted Citizenship (“trusted” status within the multiverse). There’s no hard and fast law to how this decision is made, at least not yet. Trusted Players will start dropping by to check out the sort of stuff you like to build, or paying closer attention to you in chat. When a metric handful or so of Trusted players vouch for you to the Admins, you’ll be given full run of the SurvivalTech multiverse.

When we say full run, we mean it. Make Ages, quarry up nether forts, go nuts. We’ve given you the keys, because you’ve shown you can be trusted with them.

Now, this isn’t to say that the SurvivalTech multiverse is anarchic. Wheaton’s Law is still the law of the land: Don’t Be A Dick and everything will work out just fine.

There are a few limits, based on computational realities. SurvivalTech is free to join and free to play, so we’ve had to make one or two policies about resource-intensive activities or objects. Making Ages, for example: The right to make a permanent Age of your own has to be purchased (with IC2 Credits, not real money. Play more, get more computing power), and the server automagically deletes unregistered ages every night. But by making strategic use of Mystcraft’s multiverse system, we’ve made most security plugins entirely unnecessary.

Our anti-griefing protocols are written into the laws of physics, in a way. You don’t need cops to enforce gravity.

Why It Works:

Whitelisting is great for security, but bad for community. Strangers can never drop by and become friends, and there’s no way to know who can’t be trusted without trusting them and hoping for the best.

Plugins and aggressive Admins treat every player as a potential griefer and work from there. Two results: You’re only as secure as your grasp of the region, faction, and security plugins, and law enforcement is only around if the Admins are online. (The problem of bullying Admins is a whole ‘nuther issue.) That’s not fun.

SurvivalTech’s solution is much, much better. Anyone can drop by and play in the Guest Dimension/DMZ (which is gorgeous, by the way), and can apply for access to the rest of the multiverse after they’ve hung out long enough to like the server and the people who play there.

Before someone’s trusted, they’ve not only proven themselves but actually care about the place. They don’t want to mess with the other players, because they’re not strangers anymore. They’re part of the SurvivalTech community. Why grief your friends?

Guests and Trusted Players have more fun and Admins don’t have to be cops, all without any kind of plugin kung fu or complex permissions. Everybody wins.

Tweaked multiverse physics as perimeter network security and community-building. That, friends and neighbors, is how we roll.

If any of you are curious about the nuts and bolts of our system, we’d be happy to provide a setup walkthrough or image gallery. It’s a good strategy to deal with a common issue and the more servers use it, the more fun we’ll all have.

If you prefer to check stuff out for yourself, the server address is SurvivalTech.us9.creeperhost.net. All are welcome.
 

MektonZero

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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Of course the real problem with this is that sooner or later you're going to promote a thief and you won't have the tools to catch him.

In addition it's open season on Guests. I gave your server a shot, but when I went down in my mine and came back up less than 15 minutes later to find that someone had casually walked off with my previous night's work (all my buildcraft machines, apiaries and ores) I wasn't really interesting in spending another night replacing it so they could come back and rob me over and over again like they were shearing a sheep.
 

Raimbur

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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It sounds nice.... But....

This only works for the "normal" world, in the beginner world, everybody can grief and steal, without getting problems...

Im running something like this on my bukkit server, but there is one difference, we have logblock in that world, and we really use it verry much. You can't pick out the jerks, so you normal world will be protected yes, but in the starters world, you get griefd etc.... And when that happens... Yes than you leave, because everybody hates that!
 

Vegoraptor

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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I accompany the both above, there are some flaws in this idea, however it is fine overall, just needs some tweaking.
First, you really should install plugins to be successful, some pluginlike servermods here: first second.
Of course, do not let them make all the work, they are just tools and shall be treated like.
Second, the idea with mystcraft ages is fine, however as said above, the damage is just centered on that age.
Spreading the players over the whole age to make stealing unattractive was my solution, maybe you find a better one.
Third, just having two steps (guest>fully trusted member) seems to be too less for me, I whould add a second age before letting players go to the overworld.

Just my oppinions and suggestions, feel free to have different ones.
 

Geoff

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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Couple of questions:
So did you set spawn in one of the new ages?
What is the method/mechanics for inviting them to the overworld? Give them a link book?
Are you using Direwolf20 modpack or a custom pack?
 

ahref

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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I've always found vanilla servers(I mean 0 plugins here not no mods :p) Fascinating.
To answer Geoff's question, Spawn would of been set in the DMZ they mention.

I do want to ask though: " The right to make a permanent Age of your own has to be purchased"
How is this facilitated? , the bukkit way would to be disable the crafting of a writing desk and then enable it when they "buy" the ability.
 

TheLoneWolfling

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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I can see a few issues with this, and have a few questions / comments.

  • What happens when you accidentally promote a thief/griefer/etc.?
  • What happens when someone brings a linking book to the overworld / another dimension to the DMZ zone?
  • What about Twilight Forest portals? I believe those work from any age.
  • What about people like me, who tend to be relative loners on SMP servers? I can't see myself getting beyond the guest stage on this server, for instance, if I were to join.
  • Do you know that you don't even need the DMZ? It is possible to make Mystcraft ages completely secure from intruders with WR:CBE + Forestry + Redpower (Forestry machines cannot be broken by other people in private mode; frames can move forestry machines; WR:CBE has private channels. Build a 2x1x2 room around spawn in your age surrounded by forestry machines, and then at least one other solid block (to prevent people from using frames to push the machines out of the way from the inside). Setup a WR:CBE-triggered frame machine to move a wall out of the way on demand, and you're golden.
  • How do you set the spawn of players to the Mystcraft age by default?
  • How do you prevent people from making descriptive books from the guest age, going age-hopping, getting a star fissure and getting to the overworld that way? If you disable the recipe, how do you enable it for non-guests?
  • What modpack are you using? Are there any additional modifications server-side?
 

Nanakisan

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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So many points i agree with above my post.

DMZ or not.
If an admin is being to aggressive. remove he/she from staff and promote a better liked player who has shown better responsibility and skill.
If something is stolen. Offer to replace it at your own cost as a admin.
If someone is griefed. Offer to help the player rebuild.
If someone is being a nuisance. Remove them from the whitelist.

Been op to a server going on 1 week now. Since our last 2 griefing incidents. We rebuilt spawn once and so far have had no issues thus far. We have well over 60 people whitelisted. Only 30 or so typically come on. Most of the time i'm there nearly 24/7 sometimes occasionally working as a admin to several servers outside of minecraft. I even gave my skype in case of an emergency i can pop in and handle things.

If you can't run your server without some form of authority. You shouldn't be running one. You need to be observant enough to know who you can trust in your server to give the power of OP. Whitelisting is only a problem when you get stupid with it. If you cannot do some research on the people who apply. well tough luck. that was your own fault for allowing a bad seed into your crop. had you done the research to see if this person has a history in the community. That the server is designed to appeal to. then find out that they have no history. hmmm do you accept or do you deny? This is entirely up to you. But occasionally there are the few in the community who are entirely new. You can simply hover over them and help them learn the game. Make their experience better in general. Who knows that random guy you whitelisted becomes a close friend, maybe even your next OP.
 

TheLoneWolfling

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
260
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Also, what do you do about things like this? (World crashes that persist on reload, that can be done fairly simply if someone intends to grief)