AE2 Discussion

ShneekeyTheLost

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Here are my opinions on AE2 regarding ballance questions raised already.

AE should be endgame (I know algo likes in mid-game) but for me I like to start off with vanilla chest to start > other simple sorting (TE, Extra Ut, Railcraft ...) and such early and mid-game, then get into AE & Logi Pipes endgame. This way I get to play everything available to me.

The issue I had with AE1 was while AE was intended for late-mid game the truth was you could get a network up and running right off the bat. Just a hour or two in game. And once you had that network up, you just added to it. Which was super boring IMO. AE2 addresses a couple of issues here for me. One while you can still start AE in Day 1 if you go nuts, it is better to just find things as they come and use them when you get to that point in the game. On SMP if area near spawn is cleaned up already, just pillar to bedrock roof in nether and dig 100-500 or more blocks any directions and make a portal for fresh gen (that fresh gen argument in SMP I can't wrap my head around. Seems silly). But what I really love is that it isn't just that you set up a network 1 hour in game and just add to it for the rest of your game. Now the networks are something you are invest a little creativity as you add to it. AND subnets are a actual thing for a change. It adds so much to me that I enjoy. Much less boring without just being another Greg type (crafting a gazillion things). It is actually about being creative in how and where you place block in the world. I find world interactions and creativity much more rewarding than crafting X of this and that.

Like I said, that is just my opinion and obviously differs greatly with most. Which is fine. :)
You see... I don't get this. To start up AE, you need Nether Quartz, at least for the Fluix Dust and Fluix Crystals. Nether is not a 'first day' location to visit, not if you expect to get back out alive. Between Nether Ores, Natura, Thaumcraft (hellbats), and a few other odds and sods... the Nether is not a place you wish to visit unprepared. Some form of footwear is required, because heat sand. And may Notch help you if you have Metallurgy installed and start walking over Vulcanite or the poison ore. Getting the stack or so of nether quartz required to get set up is not a trivial matter anymore.

I don't even consider building a Nether Portal until I've got the gear to at least survive long enough to base up. And I don't even consider it until I've got a Silk Touch pickaxe for the ores to avoid setting off explosions and pigmen Tantrum Spirals.
 

Bevo

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You see... I don't get this. To start up AE, you need Nether Quartz, at least for the Fluix Dust and Fluix Crystals. Nether is not a 'first day' location to visit, not if you expect to get back out alive. Between Nether Ores, Natura, Thaumcraft (hellbats), and a few other odds and sods... the Nether is not a place you wish to visit unprepared. Some form of footwear is required, because heat sand. And may Notch help you if you have Metallurgy installed and start walking over Vulcanite or the poison ore. Getting the stack or so of nether quartz required to get set up is not a trivial matter anymore.

I don't even consider building a Nether Portal until I've got the gear to at least survive long enough to base up. And I don't even consider it until I've got a Silk Touch pickaxe for the ores to avoid setting off explosions and pigmen Tantrum Spirals.
With a few stacks of cobble I've never had trouble in the nether. I just avoid stepping on stuff I shouldn't step on. Those thaumcraft firebats though! Ugg, they do drive me bonkers. :D
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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With a stack or two of cobble I've never had trouble in the nether. I just avoid stepping on stuff I shouldn't step on. Those thaumcraft firebats though! Ugg, they do drive me bonkers. :D
Surprise Nitro Creeper is also detrimental to your health. And trying to mine nether quartz in the presence of Nether Ores mod can be... tricky. Particularly if there are Pigderps nearby. Ghasts are easy enough to avoid. Pigmen Swarms are more problematic.
 

Azzanine

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AE2 is like watching an awesome well trained Olympic sprinter trip over horribly at the last meter just after a really big lead.

Presses in SMP would pretty much be a finite resource in servers who use world borders of any size. Even servers that foolishly don't set one up will lead newcomers to travel very far to hopefully find the press they need to get started.
Sure they could use a plugin to let players purchase them from the server, but that just feels lame and unnecessary. You also might say "ask one of the veterans to make you circuits" to that I say you really do underestimate the stinginess of the average Minecraft player. That and the reliability of using other players infrastructure, if the the only guys with presses on the server are not on you will have to wait and bug them to use it when they do get on.
This would work well on a server that has an economy feature, those first lucky players could sell circuits at a premium.

The only plus side to the limited presses is that Logistics pipes might get more of a look in despite being the inferior method (LP's still a good mod though, just not as efficient as AE).
It seems like the press thing is just a huge oversight of the needs of the SMP community. Well server admins might like them because they could charge for presses if they wanted too, they'd become a "donator" perk for sure.

everything else is gold or a sidegrade, this press thing is a HUGE fumble for an otherwise reputable mod.
 

CascadingDragon

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I really think you all need to wait until it's in actual use in many servers before you all call it a fumble... Seriously, if the only problem is "hur dur, SMP presses", then it's not an actual problem.

I've seen people complain about lack of nodes from TC because others' on the server destroyed them or moved them (especially for limited size maps). So what did people do? They asked others to use their nodes. They don't have a way (excluding addons) to make nodes.

So AE2 will either foster a sense of community, which, unless you are playing on Anarchy or Faction servers (and even then...), people are generally friendly. If that's not the case, the admin should provide a way to get the presses. (How is this lame? A server admin should know what is hard to find [Factorization logic thingies only from dungeon loot, anyone?], and provide access to it in some form [an event {definitely not lame}, a shop, etc]. It's just like being a good GM for most pen and paper games... Providing what your players need to have fun)

edit: formatting
 

Azzanine

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I really think you all need to wait until it's in actual use in many servers before you all call it a fumble... Seriously, if the only problem is "hur dur, SMP presses", then it's not an actual problem.

I've seen people complain about lack of nodes from TC because others' on the server destroyed them or moved them (especially for limited size maps). So what did people do? They asked others to use their nodes. They don't have a way (excluding addons) to make nodes.

So AE2 will either foster a sense of community, which, unless you are playing on Anarchy or Faction servers (and even then...), people are generally friendly. If that's not the case, the admin should provide a way to get the presses. (How is this lame? A server admin should know what is hard to find [Factorization logic thingies only from dungeon loot, anyone?], and provide access to it in some form [an event {definitely not lame}, a shop, etc]. It's just like being a good GM for most pen and paper games... Providing what your players need to have fun)

edit: formatting
I just don't want to have to be that guy that bugs or gets bugged to use their press. Even if your server community is nice you still have to wait on other players and bug them to make you some circuits.
Also I knew someone would mention TC and I kinda do think the same thing about nodes. It's one of those things that makes me avoid an otherwise great mod, well at least when I log in to a server that is months old. When I log on to a server that has no available nodes I just go "well looks like I'm not using TC this time".

AE2's finite presses (I wont bitch about RNG, I played WoW in vanilla I'm used to RNG screwing me over) will lead to a have/ have not situation that is not fun for anyone even the haves. While in RL it can't and shouldn't be helped in a game I don't see it being very fun.
Having to be the guy who has to forgo AE becasue every meteor in a 20k block radius has been raided. Also being the guy getting messaged "hey bro, can I use your presses" - "can I use your press dude" - "YOU LET USE PRSS PLOX NOW" - "mate I need to use your press again, I was one circuit short for what I needed". It will bring server communities together but not in the lovey dovey way you think mor like the needy dependent kind where everyone silently resents each other.
Also while it is a valid solution having a sign give me a press it reveals the whole meteor thing as being a very very pointless mechanic in an SMP context.

As for the judging before playing thing, I really don't see how the actual results could be different from peoples perceptions here. We that play SMP know what it's like to find a dungeon or village to have it be empty it's not hard it's just disappointing. It's not a stretch of the imagination to apply that to being able to use a favorite mod, one that's considered a must have no matter how OP you think it is. It can only suck.

Imagine if you needed to find a rare pneumatic sphere from a dungeon to make BC pipes or engines, Or a Dwarven soldering iron to make IC2 circuits, or a, well... you get the picture right?
I guess this won't be a problem if there's like 4 meteors per chunk but then you have world gen issues.
All in all, it sounds like a dumb idea for an otherwise great mod.

Time to get good with Logistics Pipes, I guess that's not too bad it is a nifty mod.
 
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Not_Steve

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I just don't want to have to be that guy that bugs or gets bugged to use their press. Even if your server community is nice you still have to wait on other players and bug them to make you some circuits.
Also I knew someone would mention TC and I kinda do think the same thing about nodes. It's one of those things that makes me avoid an otherwise great mod, well at least when I log in to a server that is months old. When I log on to a server that has no available nodes I just go "well looks like I'm not using TC this time".

AE2's finite presses
Still, one can copy those plates quite easily it seems. A Block of Iron and a plate gets you a new plate. With This Badboy no less. IE the one you need to use those plates anyway.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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I guess I'd step even further away from IC2.
Not sure if this is even possible anymore.

Requiring RNG fortune in order to get started in a mod is not fun in my opinion. It is, at best, a pointless and tedious grind to try and locate enough meteors (technically, meteorites, since they have since landed) to get all your patterns from. At worst, the RNG trolls you with missing the most important schematic eight times in a row, and you tableflip + ragequit.

Personally, I'm going to be using creative mod to cheat in the patterns, destroying a diamond and gold block for each one.
 
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Azzanine

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(upon reading that presses can be copied)
OK it's a little better, not totally cool but OK.
I'll still have to bug those that have the presses already but if you can copy them the level of bugging is much lower.

Still a pointless gating method. But it's not a lost cause.
 

Feniks

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If you can coppy plates then it is cool. But on the other hand it means that if one player gets them it won't slow down others to start because they can obtain new plates very quickly 4 blocks of iron can be found in first 30 min of game so what is actual point of meteors?
 

midi_sec

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If you can coppy plates then it is cool. But on the other hand it means that if one player gets them it won't slow down others to start because they can obtain new plates very quickly 4 blocks of iron can be found in first 30 min of game so what is actual point of meteors?
that is assuming this person will say "sure bro, one sec"

i know exactly what i'm going to do to the first person standing on my porch coveting my presses.
 

RavynousHunter

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I agree that the whole "limited channels" thing will likely lead to a tonne of subnetting, which might end up increasing server loads...I don't know, I don't have Algo's code in front of me, so I can't say for certain, but it does sound like the kind of thing that'd create a tonne of overheads. Typically, if a problem could be solved thru either multiple small things or one big thing, the more server-friendly approach is the one big thing.

Again, I...can't really see myself using AE 2 for more beyond storage, if there's not configs to make it more like AE 1, which sucks, because I love AE. I love having shit available on demand, and only having things done when I need them done, but AE 2 looks like its going to force me to have one more statistic to track. For those of you who'd say "then, just don't worry about it," that'd be wonderful, if I weren't unbelievably anal that such a thing would be akin to me removing a foot.
 

Azzanine

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Have you played chococraft better dungeons before?
Not to mention all the various instances of glitch duping in Minecraft's history both modded and vanilla.

I agree that the whole "limited channels" thing will likely lead to a tonne of subnetting, which might end up increasing server loads...I don't know, I don't have Algo's code in front of me, so I can't say for certain, but it does sound like the kind of thing that'd create a tonne of overheads. Typically, if a problem could be solved thru either multiple small things or one big thing, the more server-friendly approach is the one big thing.

Again, I...can't really see myself using AE 2 for more beyond storage, if there's not configs to make it more like AE 1, which sucks, because I love AE. I love having shit available on demand, and only having things done when I need them done, but AE 2 looks like its going to force me to have one more statistic to track. For those of you who'd say "then, just don't worry about it," that'd be wonderful, if I weren't unbelievably anal that such a thing would be akin to me removing a foot.
Edit;
Last line is my exact sentiment. AE as at now is considered a staple must have mod, even if that's not technically true.
 
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Dylan4ever

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I have had the chance to play with AE2 a bit, I have not gotten to even an adhoc system, I do have some things to say though:

~ The channels look really interesting to me. I am sure this will truly turn AE2 into a puzzle game, a system that requires proper design to work optimally. That is a very good thing in my opinion. I loved AE1, but this looks a lot cooler.

~ Meteorites, I love. I am an exploring type of person, so I do not mind walking a bit, I have however turned down the minimum distance between 2 meteorites. I think it is an interesting addition. The fact that they can only be dug into using a diamond pickaxe looks like a proper gate mechanic to me, à la modders putting resources in the nether so you need said tool to advance.

~ Those inscribing plates are quite cool. The fact that you can only find them in chests seems ''meh'' to a lot of people, but I don't mind it that much. I love looting. I actually got 3 out of the 4 plates in the first 3 meteorites I dug into. SCORE!

~ A minor nuisance... You can't charge Certus Quartz into Charged Certus Quartz before actually finding Charged Certus Quartz, which seems really rare. So I cheated some in. I'm so naughty.
 

Zenthon_127

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I wonder if packs that add better dungeons will add the plates to the loot table for that mod. That would probably be a good idea.
I play Resonant Rise, so if I try looting a Better Dungeon I'm just going to get swarmed by a few dozen 20-health, enchanted-dia armor godmode killing machines lol.