[1.7.10] Ingenuity - Are you Ingenious? ---- Where's all the usual mods?!?! o.O

Magzie

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Mar 26, 2014
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Adding iguana tweaks *should* be fine. It makes the pack harder than intended, but yeah. Personally, I like adding it and disabling the nerfs so I get replacable tool parts and crafting grid item repairs. Love iguana tweaks for those things.

And removing the laser creeper mod shouldn't do much but make you miss out on a sick rideable dinosaur and epic laser blaster. It'll also remove a decent amount of nighttime mob threat.
The mining tiers are adjustable as i remember. Tool leveling makes the tool seem more personal which i like.
 

Danjal

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Jul 29, 2019
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Interesting premise, though I personally feel that to stay true to that, you could've left out Applied Energistics 2 and Botania (and perhaps even Tinkers) and replaced them with other less-used alternatives for item storage/management, tools and support features.

Only a relatively minor detail on the whole. While I love my Tinkers (and iguana tweaks) and many of the others.
Getting to try out new things is definitely something that is lacking with most packs.
 

ThatGuyOverThere

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Jul 29, 2019
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Interesting premise, though I personally feel that to stay true to that, you could've left out Applied Energistics 2 and Botania (and perhaps even Tinkers) and replaced them with other less-used alternatives for item storage/management, tools and support features.

Only a relatively minor detail on the whole. While I love my Tinkers (and iguana tweaks) and many of the others.
Getting to try out new things is definitely something that is lacking with most packs.
I think jordsta covered in the original post why they kept those mods in.
I'm glad that they are in there tbh, ae means less chests everywhere. Botania adds flight, and tinkers tools? there's no alternative!
 

goreae

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I think jordsta covered in the original post why they kept those mods in.
I'm glad that they are in there tbh, ae means less chests everywhere. Botania adds flight, and tinkers tools? there's no alternative!
There's plenty of alternative for tinkers tools in much more interesting forms. Tinkers tools tend to overshadow other mods because of how easy they are to obtain. They can easily be done without. Though the only thing that can't really be easily replaced is the longsword. That doesn't have much of a counterpart really.
 

ThatGuyOverThere

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There's plenty of alternative for tinkers tools in much more interesting forms. Tinkers tools tend to overshadow other mods because of how easy they are to obtain. They can easily be done without. Though the only thing that can't really be easily replaced is the longsword. That doesn't have much of a counterpart really.
What mods out there add the tinkers' style of tools/weapons/etc?
 

Danjal

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Jul 29, 2019
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First off - this is merely my opinion, I can see why the choices were made and don't have a major problem with it.
As I said in my previous post. Its just a little thing I think would've meshed better with the concept of ingenuity.
That said - I'll explain my reasonings and the mods I may have considered as valid alternatives.

This is by no means an attack on the modpack. Merely my thoughtprocess on the concept. =)
The mods I mention are some alternatives, others do exist.

I think jordsta covered in the original post why they kept those mods in.
I'm glad that they are in there tbh, ae means less chests everywhere. Botania adds flight, and tinkers tools? there's no alternative!
There are a number of mods that provide inventory management in varying extents. While I agree that few do it in the way that AE(2) does, providing a single entrypoint without having to set up a too extensive network. The fact remains they do exist.

Now personally, I think that if you want to go off of the concept of ingenuity. If you want to step away from the cookie cutter kitchensink mods.
Storage is one of the big components that you can approach that in.
  • "Project Red - Transportation"
    This offers a way to connect your inventory and access it from a single point.
    It takes some setting up, but having to think about things instead of going the easy 'standard' route is what ingenuity is all about is it not?
  • Botania's "Corporeal Spark" mechanic
    This makes for a pretty neat storage mechanism, although you do need access to "The End".
  • Refined Relocation
    Again, a great way of sorting items that isn't in the conventional list.
I think with regards to storage and inventory management, the list of options goes on and on.

Botania adds flight. If I were to look around at a lesser used mod, for me Mekanism springs to mind.
While becoming more popular, it isn't in the kitchensink list just yet as people tend to prefer the Thermal Expansion method or even IC2 or the like.
Mekanism adds Jetpacks.
"Simply Jetpacks" adds Jetpacks, Morph allows for transformation (which can be locked behind requirements).
There are tons of mods that provide speed boosts and/or flight.

While I agree that there are few mods that are as extensive as Tinkers in providing a wide range of tools.
Most of the tools and their individual functions are covered in some form or another.
Arguably one of the "best" configurable fits would be Ars Magica 2 as this allows you to create spells with varying effects. Many of which can 'replicate' the effects that Tinkers Tools provide.
There are also a handful of "weapon mods" that would offer an alternative arsenal to the Tinkers one.

There's plenty of alternative for tinkers tools in much more interesting forms. Tinkers tools tend to overshadow other mods because of how easy they are to obtain. They can easily be done without. Though the only thing that can't really be easily replaced is the longsword. That doesn't have much of a counterpart really.
And I think that that is at the core of it for most of these choices.
AE2 is one of the easiest inventory management mods. And lets face it, most people do not consider "inventory management" to be fun. (So I can see where the decision comes from.)
Tinkers is one of the easiest routes out providing a one-stop-shop for all tool and weapon related needs while providing a wide range of possibilities still.
Especially if you add in Iguana Tweaks, the more random upgrades and leveling progression seem highly popular.

What mods out there add the tinkers' style of tools/weapons/etc?
The trick is using ingenuity.

Want an alternative to the Tinkers hammer?
Ars Magicka 2 allows you to amplify your dig spell to dig 3x3 (or larger) terrain and also offers a range of weapon options to boot.
Railcraft's tunnel bore digs out amazing 3x3 tunnels.
"Minions" (or whatever its called) provides you with a range of options to use your minions for.
And there are other mods like it that allow you to get assistance in mining or fighting.

The options are out there. Some may not be as "easy" as Tinkers.
But atleast to me, if you're going for ingenuity then usually you have to take the road less travelled.

AE2, Botania and Tinkers Construct are great mods.
And Botania specifically is adding in a bunch of cool stuff to expand on its initial core functionality.
Though to stick to the theme of not going with the kitchensink alternatives, of being ingenious and trying out something new and emulating the "Where are all the mods?!" catchphrase.
I'd say there are options available for the kitchen appliances still left in this modpack.


And again. This is not an attack on this modpack. I think it looks great and choosing to keep some familiarity and ease of use isn't bad.
These are merely my own thoughts on the matter, offering my perspective of some of the alternatives that would be available.
Feel free to pitch in on what mod or mods you think would fill these roles or why they don't.

I think goreae above me has the right of it. Most alternatives aren't as easy to use. And especially for storage/inventory management, basic tools and manouverability - people generally like to stay with what is known and easily accessible.
Which is fine. Its just not very ingenious.
 

ThatGuyOverThere

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Jul 29, 2019
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-Snippped-
To be honest, before playing this pack, I never actually tried to use Botania for flight, only speed, just because it required a lot of work, and stuff like Extra Utilities made flight a lot easier (which I am sorta glad is disabled, but at the same time I like free flight, but I get why it shouldn't be there)
To be honest, I still haven't used AE2 yet. Not in any pack, other than helping a few people with routing, and then for storage after they removed all my chests. So I may need to look into it more before I comment. Though, I haven't found any meteors yet? Just me?
Tinkers. I am lazy, so I will use it. I haven't got advanced tools, nor do I think I will make them. I never see the need, I always cary both hammer and pickaxe at all times, and as you said, railcraft makes nice 3x3's.

I think the mods that are in here that seem to have made their way from the kitchen to the study (This is now a study-desk pack, as I had to do a lot of research on millenaire - never used it before :/) are good fits. It's like a cup of coffee, and a plate with a nice sandwhich on. Not too much has been brought over, but everything that has seems to have its place, and makes it so you have something to keep you going throughout you 'ventures into other mods, most of which I have never used/seen, and in some case, heard of before.
 

Danjal

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Jul 29, 2019
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Fair enough point.
Keeping good tools around while you explore the unfamiliar can be a great help.

Millenaire is awesome btw, it surprised me that its not that frequently used. Though I suspect that may have to do with its tremendous resource requirement.
(It can wreak havoc with older machines.)
 

LucidCrux

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Jul 29, 2019
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I keep getting a crash trying to use the hydraulicraft washer. If you need a report tell me, but all it takes to reproduce is putting something in the washer. It's an "updating screen events" crash.
 

HeroGabe

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Jul 29, 2019
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Elementium is Thaumcraft? Which isn't in the pack?

Also:

So I dunno how she's doing it, but it seems she is gonna let people on the ingenuity server :D
Elementium is in Botania, which is in a pack. What you were thinking about was Alumentum, which is a fuel source in Thaumcraft, which is not in the modpack.
 

Magzie

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2014
1,395
210
78
First off - this is merely my opinion, I can see why the choices were made and don't have a major problem with it.
As I said in my previous post. Its just a little thing I think would've meshed better with the concept of ingenuity.
That said - I'll explain my reasonings and the mods I may have considered as valid alternatives.

This is by no means an attack on the modpack. Merely my thoughtprocess on the concept. =)
The mods I mention are some alternatives, others do exist.


There are a number of mods that provide inventory management in varying extents. While I agree that few do it in the way that AE(2) does, providing a single entrypoint without having to set up a too extensive network. The fact remains they do exist.

Now personally, I think that if you want to go off of the concept of ingenuity. If you want to step away from the cookie cutter kitchensink mods.
Storage is one of the big components that you can approach that in.
  • "Project Red - Transportation"
    This offers a way to connect your inventory and access it from a single point.
    It takes some setting up, but having to think about things instead of going the easy 'standard' route is what ingenuity is all about is it not?
  • Botania's "Corporeal Spark" mechanic
    This makes for a pretty neat storage mechanism, although you do need access to "The End".
  • Refined Relocation
    Again, a great way of sorting items that isn't in the conventional list.
I think with regards to storage and inventory management, the list of options goes on and on.

Botania adds flight. If I were to look around at a lesser used mod, for me Mekanism springs to mind.
While becoming more popular, it isn't in the kitchensink list just yet as people tend to prefer the Thermal Expansion method or even IC2 or the like.
Mekanism adds Jetpacks.
"Simply Jetpacks" adds Jetpacks, Morph allows for transformation (which can be locked behind requirements).
There are tons of mods that provide speed boosts and/or flight.

While I agree that there are few mods that are as extensive as Tinkers in providing a wide range of tools.
Most of the tools and their individual functions are covered in some form or another.
Arguably one of the "best" configurable fits would be Ars Magica 2 as this allows you to create spells with varying effects. Many of which can 'replicate' the effects that Tinkers Tools provide.
There are also a handful of "weapon mods" that would offer an alternative arsenal to the Tinkers one.


And I think that that is at the core of it for most of these choices.
AE2 is one of the easiest inventory management mods. And lets face it, most people do not consider "inventory management" to be fun. (So I can see where the decision comes from.)
Tinkers is one of the easiest routes out providing a one-stop-shop for all tool and weapon related needs while providing a wide range of possibilities still.
Especially if you add in Iguana Tweaks, the more random upgrades and leveling progression seem highly popular.


The trick is using ingenuity.

Want an alternative to the Tinkers hammer?
Ars Magicka 2 allows you to amplify your dig spell to dig 3x3 (or larger) terrain and also offers a range of weapon options to boot.
Railcraft's tunnel bore digs out amazing 3x3 tunnels.
"Minions" (or whatever its called) provides you with a range of options to use your minions for.
And there are other mods like it that allow you to get assistance in mining or fighting.

The options are out there. Some may not be as "easy" as Tinkers.
But atleast to me, if you're going for ingenuity then usually you have to take the road less travelled.

AE2, Botania and Tinkers Construct are great mods.
And Botania specifically is adding in a bunch of cool stuff to expand on its initial core functionality.
Though to stick to the theme of not going with the kitchensink alternatives, of being ingenious and trying out something new and emulating the "Where are all the mods?!" catchphrase.
I'd say there are options available for the kitchen appliances still left in this modpack.


And again. This is not an attack on this modpack. I think it looks great and choosing to keep some familiarity and ease of use isn't bad.
These are merely my own thoughts on the matter, offering my perspective of some of the alternatives that would be available.
Feel free to pitch in on what mod or mods you think would fill these roles or why they don't.

I think goreae above me has the right of it. Most alternatives aren't as easy to use. And especially for storage/inventory management, basic tools and manouverability - people generally like to stay with what is known and easily accessible.
Which is fine. Its just not very ingenious.
Ok a few things. Last i checked AM 2 is no longer in Development by the mod create (let me know if i am mistaken.) and it is quite buggy and that is why most packs don't use it. Also most spells break the game like once you get armor and the beam spell comp it is op time. AE2 is a pain in the butt and i would rather use 20 thousand chest then to use AE2 and there is a TiCo mod that allows more mats to be used for Tico tools and that is sweet. I like Mek but it's factories are rather op and require little to get to also the Paxil allows you to skip tiers of ore when using them. I would like a pack that for once requires you to play the pack but not to the point that I am required to spend 40 year gather the mats and then another 40 building machine from those mats. IC2 is a perfect example now i mean what is the point of the Hammer. why can't i just be able to make the machine first and then have the rest of the machine require the plates. or have the machine have upgraded ammounts when using it for mats like i use the hammer i get 1 plate but i can get 2 using the machine or something. I miss the old IC2 and i see more and more mods going to the "you need to make 15 stages of mats just for this one item". I mean we are not talk about a laser pistol. have you seen the mining drill recipe why would i chose that over Tico when it does the same thing and take 4 times less to make and mats. Also why do i need 3 drills could we just have 1 and then make it use upgrades. I mean that seems more fun. Tools shouldn't take 15 machines to make they should be tiered, starter tools, mid game tools, and Late game tools. Little mods do that better then Tico.
 
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Magzie

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2014
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Fair enough point.
Keeping good tools around while you explore the unfamiliar can be a great help.

Millenaire is awesome btw, it surprised me that its not that frequently used. Though I suspect that may have to do with its tremendous resource requirement.
(It can wreak havoc with older machines.)
I haven't used that much yet i need to watch some video on that i have seen a few packs starting to use it and know nothing about it.
 
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ThatGuyOverThere

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Jul 29, 2019
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Elementium is in Botania, which is in a pack. What you were thinking about was Alumentum, which is a fuel source in Thaumcraft, which is not in the modpack.
I was thinking of Thaumium, not alumentum. I just see ...ium and think Thaumcraft, don't ask me why, it's just I am still not used to Botania. As I said before, I never really delved deep into it.
 

goreae

Ultimate Murderous Fiend
Nov 27, 2012
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~Holy Snip, Batman!~
Tinkers tools:
hammer (3x3+ mining): Botania Terra Shatterer. Can get rather ridiculous, and has a continual mana cost. It's entirely underused.
Lumber axe (tree felling): axe of the stream for one, I don't know if botania has an equivalent or not. But you could use treecapitator in enchantment mode. Requires a special enchant on an axe to make it fell trees.
Scythe (leaf/grass clearing): Botania's horns. Horn of the wild and canopy. Canopy clears all leaves and wild clears all grass/flowers/gardens/etc.
torch placing with a tool: botania picks.
Beheading: elementium axe. Relatively easy to make and provides a decent beheading chance. The witchery boline(or arthana, can't remember which) also provides a beheading effect.

So yeah, the tinkers stuff can be replicated with botania rather easily, but with an actual cost other than a few iron every now and then on a basic hammer.

Botania is put in a ton of modpacks, but it's a marvelous mod. It uses simple, easy to understand mechanics, but can get as complicated as you want to get. It also does some really cool things that aren't replicated by many other mechanics, like the tiny planet or shard of lupita. You don't see that stuff in many other mods.

The weapons don't really have much of a counterpart, but witchery has crossbows and botania has the crystal bow, which is rather powerful. Balkon's weapon mod can be used for more weapon variety. But if I know jordan, they are rather pointless because he's a peaceful player.

AE2 is raher overused.. Corporea sparks are really neat and entirely underused. Relocators is also amazing for item sorting and general logistics, as well as adding in a low-tech sort of transvector block. Really neat. Project red transportation is a great substitute for logistics pipes that doesn't rely on buildcraft pipes. Speaking of which, buildcraft is entirely underused in this day and age. The limitations of which makes for a really fun network build.

And on renascintis, we're using ars magica and are sort of regretting it. It is rather buggy, with little to no hope of future bugfixes. It's an amazing concept, but with that many bugs it's not really worth it.
 

Magzie

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2014
1,395
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Tinkers tools:
hammer (3x3+ mining): Botania Terra Shatterer. Can get rather ridiculous, and has a continual mana cost. It's entirely underused.
Lumber axe (tree felling): axe of the stream for one, I don't know if botania has an equivalent or not. But you could use treecapitator in enchantment mode. Requires a special enchant on an axe to make it fell trees.
Scythe (leaf/grass clearing): Botania's horns. Horn of the wild and canopy. Canopy clears all leaves and wild clears all grass/flowers/gardens/etc.
torch placing with a tool: botania picks.
Beheading: elementium axe. Relatively easy to make and provides a decent beheading chance. The witchery boline(or arthana, can't remember which) also provides a beheading effect.

So yeah, the tinkers stuff can be replicated with botania rather easily, but with an actual cost other than a few iron every now and then on a basic hammer.

Botania is put in a ton of modpacks, but it's a marvelous mod. It uses simple, easy to understand mechanics, but can get as complicated as you want to get. It also does some really cool things that aren't replicated by many other mechanics, like the tiny planet or shard of lupita. You don't see that stuff in many other mods.

The weapons don't really have much of a counterpart, but witchery has crossbows and botania has the crystal bow, which is rather powerful. Balkon's weapon mod can be used for more weapon variety. But if I know jordan, they are rather pointless because he's a peaceful player.

AE2 is raher overused.. Corporea sparks are really neat and entirely underused. Relocators is also amazing for item sorting and general logistics, as well as adding in a low-tech sort of transvector block. Really neat. Project red transportation is a great substitute for logistics pipes that doesn't rely on buildcraft pipes. Speaking of which, buildcraft is entirely underused in this day and age. The limitations of which makes for a really fun network build.

And on renascintis, we're using ars magica and are sort of regretting it. It is rather buggy, with little to no hope of future bugfixes. It's an amazing concept, but with that many bugs it's not really worth it.
Um AE2 sucks and takes way to much to get into even for a late game mod. That shatter takes some doing to get and i don't know if spending 40+ Hours would be the same as a tool you can make in the first hour of play time. The stream axe sucks unless they changed require you to keep standing there while it chops down the tree which in turn doesn't really save that much time. why do you need to clear leaves? it isn't a Skyblock map pack. to the last one there is a mod now that lets every pick place torches. Tico crossbow are better as i have used witchery ones and if you have you know that they are cool but low damage. We don't need stuff that does the same thing we need stuff that does it Better!