Redpower 2 future in FTB?

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Iskandar

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Feb 17, 2013
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Are you sure, that it can be used standalone? But anyways, we also have Forestry which uses BC power.
Maybe Buildcraft itself is not that important (however, many people use quarry), but it was the mod that made Forestry, TE and Railcraft power systems possible. And IC has been revived by GregTech
Aye, I asked KingLemming. And you can power Forestry with TE machines, or Railcraft boilers. I took it as a bit of a challenge, actually. I've been using IC2 and BuildCraft for just about as long as they have existed, and RP2 shortly thereafter. I know how to do everything in those mods that I care to do to the point it has gotten more than a little boring. So, i asked myself could I run a tech pack without the three mods that everyone and their brother uses, has used, and always will use? Thanks to a bit of help from Universal Electricity, it turns out I can. So, I'm tossing out anything I've used longer than three months. Hell, I'm using TE mostly for liquiducts and power, Forestry only for the bees (the one thing I've always wanted to look into, and never had the time) and Railcraft for its rails this time. Everything else is more or less brand new. The learning curve is steep, but it is glorious not knowing exactly how I'm going to do something without sitting down and futzing with it for a couple of hours, and hey, I can build an actual rocket ship and fly to the moon, which is ridiculously cool.

I'm not judging anyone else by this standard. I don't particularly understand it, but that is the beauty of Minecraft, you can change it to be almost anything you could want.
 

King Lemming

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Jul 29, 2019
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I have to agree and disagree to you. RedPower is evolving, but VERY slowly. And it IS hard to replace it. It is not the mod that gives you an aim, it is the mod that gives you instruments to reach the aim. That's why losing it is so painful.
About BC and IC, I have to say that their power networks - are the things that glue a lot of mods together. Most convinient machines (TE) are buildcraft-powered and buildcraft-compatible. The coolest power generators are for buildcraft and IC (boilers!) Best liquid-transport also buildcraft-based (liquiducts). Take buildcraft away -and all is ruined.

TE doesn't require BuildCraft at all. It happens to use the BC API for power, but that is for interoperability, NOT functionality. Internally, the Redstone Framework handles it. Liquiducts? Liquids were merged into Forge proper a while ago. The Crescent Hammer for wrenching? Again, interoperability.

BC won't be dying off, but I can assure you that even if it does, TE won't be affected in the least. All of the BC things are for the purposes of working with it, there are no dependencies.
 

Hyperme

Popular Member
Apr 3, 2013
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Again how is that an issue? Maybe I am the oddball but with all the work she put into it or any mod author shouldn't they simply say "Nope. All my stuff stays with me."?
Given that Redpower uses a open source API which itself was created via reverse-engineering, there is an awful lot of hypocrisy in said closedness. This is sadly everywhere in the Minecraft modding community, with egotistical maniacs *ahem* modders adding DRM to their mods. Which also checks other mods for tampering, because seriously these people have issues.
 

snooder

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Jul 29, 2019
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Actually I asked, TE isn't reliant on BC, it can stand alone. As can Forestry and Railcraft. The item transport pipes are hard to replace, but Applied Energistics can get the job done. I will have to do things quite a bit differently, but that is just fine. I've spent a year doing the same things, and it has grown stale.

How do you handle bee transport without apiarist pipes? I'm currently using AE for the backbone of my item transport and while i can replace the RP2 tubes I'm using to automate frames (once I have enough quartz) I can't figure out how to handle bee transport.
 

PonyKuu

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Jul 29, 2019
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TE doesn't require BuildCraft at all. It happens to use the BC API for power, but that is for interoperability, NOT functionality. Internally, the Redstone Framework handles it. Liquiducts? Liquids were merged into Forge proper a while ago. The Crescent Hammer for wrenching? Again, interoperability.

BC won't be dying off, but I can assure you that even if it does, TE won't be affected in the least. All of the BC things are for the purposes of working with it, there are no dependencies.
Oh, thank you for the explanation! But anyways, that API is a great thing BC gave to us. Am I wrong? I'm not a modder, but I'm very glad to see a lot of different mods running smooth together thanks to that API...
 

Lambert2191

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Jul 29, 2019
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Totally not standards. You're right.
sarcasm. yay.
Maybe in your eyes that's me imposing standards on others, but not in mine. But hey, think whatever you want, I've said it before I really don't care about what people think of me, I stopped caring a long time ago.
 

Iskandar

Popular Member
Feb 17, 2013
1,285
685
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TE doesn't require BuildCraft at all. It happens to use the BC API for power, but that is for interoperability, NOT functionality. Internally, the Redstone Framework handles it. Liquiducts? Liquids were merged into Forge proper a while ago. The Crescent Hammer for wrenching? Again, interoperability.

BC won't be dying off, but I can assure you that even if it does, TE won't be affected in the least. All of the BC things are for the purposes of working with it, there are no dependencies.
And this is one of the reasons why I love hanging around the FTB forums. Having a mod author just show up out of the blue and answer questions. Thanks for that, and thanks for TE, if I haven't said that already.
 
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RetroGamer1224

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Jul 29, 2019
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You know..for all the people saying such and such mod does better. Write one yourselves. Then open source it and skip along happily.
 

DoctorOr

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Jul 29, 2019
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Are you sure, that it can be used standalone? But anyways, we also have Forestry which uses BC power.
Maybe Buildcraft itself is not that important (however, many people use quarry), but it was the mod that made Forestry, TE and Railcraft power systems possible. And IC has been revived by GregTech

I have a 1.5.1 MultiMC instance that has TE installed working fine. A serious advantage MJ power has is that it doesn't need buildcraft installed to support the API. IC2 is required to be installed for use of EU.

Although I don't have them installed, I believe both Railcraft and Forestry can be used, and generate MJ power, without Buildcraft.[DOUBLEPOST=1365794825][/DOUBLEPOST]
You know..for all the people saying such and such mod does better. Write one yourselves. Then open source it and skip along happily.

As you've posted, you have degraded entirely into deranged ranting that has less and less - and finally absolutely no - connection with reality and the conversation at hand.

To contradict your intent however, I'll point out that something already exists for every single aspect of RP, and in most cases does it better. There is no need to "write your own", not that somebody must be a programmer to hold a valid opinion in the first place.
 
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RetroGamer1224

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Actually it is my belief that if you know something about the topic at hand, say programming, your voice holds a little more value then someone whom knows nothing.

Again if something is better install it and use it. No one is stopping you. I said write your own because sometimes it seems people, in general, bash to bash. My own belief is if you know about something first hand you can be a little more sympathetic. Example I used to work retail so I have way more patience in a retail store due to knowing how hellish it is. Same with movie theaters as well libraries.
 
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13552

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Jul 29, 2019
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One thing that would be a big issue for me personally, although I'm not seeing anyone else mention it, is the issue of migrating a world from 1.4.7 packs to 1.5.1.

TLDR: I don't want to lose RP2 not because I'm married to that mod, but because I want the modpack to be stable enough to let me keep the same world. Also, I don't see any replacements for frames.

I'm on a small private server with a group of friends. We used to just make our own modpacks by spending a lot of time and energy to go out, download tons of mods (our last pack was about the same size as FTB Ultimate), and manually check each one for compatibility, and then have to manually adjust the configs / ids / etc. so they would work together. Since we don't know java and didn't want to spend hours researching each mod, we couldn't fully optimize the packs and often had issues with memory leaks, and other problems.

The biggest issue is that, while we all want to develop the mods to their fullest, we never got to the high tech stuff (like quantum suits, nuclear power, etc.). The cycle went like this: 1) we'd make a new pack, and play happily for a few weeks. 2) We'd get busy with other issues, play other games, and end up taking a break from MC for a few months or more. 3) We'd come back to MC, and while we still had the old pack / server, we'd see all the cool new mods, features, etc. that we're missing out on, and figure "well, since we've been out of the game anyway, let's just restart."

Finally we found FTB, and when the Ultimate pack came out (which had most of the mods we wanted), and after a few tweaks, we switched (and restarted again). We gave up being able to have a fully customized modpack in exchange for the idea that a 'professionally' made one like FTB would be better optimized, and more importantly, would be designed to update.

So if FTB updates without RP2, here are our options:
  1. Just don't update. Miss out on any new features or new mods available, get alienated from the rest of the MC community ("what do you mean you don't know what a [insert 1.6. item here] is?"). Imagine still being stuck on 1.2.5, like users of a certain other mod pack. Also if you're trying to learn a new mod, good luck trying to find old info because now, you can't just google "how to use applied energistics," you have to go find an outdated video or article for the specific version you have. Also if any other friends want to join later on, we'd have to find a way to send them our specific version of the modpack to manually install (assuming FTB doesn't have a legacy pack install option).
  2. Start over AGAIN. I can't tell you how frustrating this is. I've never made a quantum suit. Yes, I said it. I have to keep restarting before I get to that point.* I see youtube videos of people with amazing high-tech bases running multiple nuclear reactors with a top-tier auto-sorting system fed by huge RP2 frame miners. I don't have huge amounts of time to play games, and I'm not going to just play MC for months on end, so this is a place I must get to over a long time.
  3. Try to port the world over anyway. With most other mods, this wouldn't be a big deal. I could replace macerators with pulverizors or vice versa. I could pull any assets out of other mystcraft dimensions and just port the overworld. I could use MCedit to put my base in a different biome if ExtraBiomes was going away. But RP2 is pervasive. It has invaded my whole world. I would have to find a way to replace all the RP2 World blocks (volcanoes, marble, etc.) and find a suitable alternative. We'd have to rebuild any tube-based machines we have (and we use tubes more than buildcraft pipes these days). I'd have to build a whole new mining system (I have frame miners), in addition to a new ore-processing system. Any buildings made with RP2 microblocks need to be rebuilt or fixed up. Sure I could use MC edit and creative to make this process easier, but then that taints the "legit-ness" of the world, especially if the other mod's system is more 'expensive.' This is just sounding like option 2 again.
...I'll point out that something already exists for every single aspect of RP, and in most cases does it better.

On top of that, if we do upgrade, I don't know of any other mod with a system like RP2 frames. If there is one, please let me know and give me a link.

Sure there's replacements for computers, it's not hard for any mod to add marble and a dark stone like basalt, other mods are starting to come up with nice wiring systems, there's other options for microblocks, and blutricity is totally unnecessary when we have other power options. But what about all of the neat things you can do with frames, that no other mod (as far as I know) can?

Complain all you want about RP2 being closed source, it not being updated enough, etc. but the fact is, it's so pervasive and so loved because of the functionality it adds. I personally think FTB should hold up until it's ready. If Elo abandons it, then sure we will have to move on (although I'd hope in that case she'd open it up for other modders to continue), but I think it's worth waiting for an extra few weeks, even a few months.

Forking the packs would be another option of course, although it would involve some complications (will they be re-merged? What about the RP2 replacement mods if they are? Are we really going to have "Ultimate, Ultimate without Redpower, Direwolf, Direwolf without Redpower, etc.?") Then there's the slippery slope issue where people will ask for this treatment with other mods, and that could quickly become a mess.

*Full disclosure: I go for the Modular Powersuits armor first, and I have made that with nearly all upgrades :)
 
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Djharts

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Jul 29, 2019
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I just wanna make a quick analogy here. I'm a musician. So say I'm starting off. I put my music out there. I start a KickStarter ( or any other type of donation) and I get some donations. The people assume that by giving me donations I will spend more time on the music. When a local record company or whatever asks me if I want to be featured on a compilation disk they're doing for local musicians I say yes. When they go to make a Vol.2 and I don't have new music and I don't tell anyone. I'm not only disrespecting the people who donated they're money and time to me, i'm also disrespecting the people who privileged me to be on a compilation disk. I'm being rude,selfish and downright stupid. And by doing that, if it would be perfectly in reason for the record company to drop me and for the donators to no longer listen to my music. Now replace every "music" with "RP2" and every "record company" with "FTB.

Makes sense? No?
 

Jyzarc

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
565
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One thing that would be a big issue for me personally, although I'm not seeing anyone else mention it, is the issue of migrating a world from 1.4.7 packs to 1.5.1.

TLDR: I don't want to lose RP2 not because I'm married to that mod, but because I want the modpack to be stable enough to let me keep the same world. Also, I don't see any replacements for frames.

I'm on a small private server with a group of friends. We used to just make our own modpacks by spending a lot of time and energy to go out, download tons of mods (our last pack was about the same size as FTB Ultimate), and manually check each one for compatibility, and then have to manually adjust the configs / ids / etc. so they would work together. Since we don't know java and didn't want to spend hours researching each mod, we couldn't fully optimize the packs and often had issues with memory leaks, and other problems.

The biggest issue is that, while we all want to develop the mods to their fullest, we never got to the high tech stuff (like quantum suits, nuclear power, etc.). The cycle went like this: 1) we'd make a new pack, and play happily for a few weeks. 2) We'd get busy with other issues, play other games, and end up taking a break from MC for a few months or more. 3) We'd come back to MC, and while we still had the old pack / server, we'd see all the cool new mods, features, etc. that we're missing out on, and figure "well, since we've been out of the game anyway, let's just restart."

Finally we found FTB, and when the Ultimate pack came out (which had most of the mods we wanted), and after a few tweaks, we switched (and restarted again). We gave up being able to have a fully customized modpack in exchange for the idea that a 'professionally' made one like FTB would be better optimized, and more importantly, would be designed to update.

So if FTB updates without RP2, here are our options:
  1. Just don't update. Miss out on any new features or new mods available, get alienated from the rest of the MC community ("what do you mean you don't know what a [insert 1.6. item here] is?"). Imagine still being stuck on 1.2.5, like users of a certain other mod pack. Also if you're trying to learn a new mod, good luck trying to find old info because now, you can't just google "how to use applied energistics," you have to go find an outdated video or article for the specific version you have. Also if any other friends want to join later on, we'd have to find a way to send them our specific version of the modpack to manually install (assuming FTB doesn't have a legacy pack install option).
  2. Start over AGAIN. I can't tell you how frustrating this is. I've never made a quantum suit. Yes, I said it. I have to keep restarting before I get to that point.* I see youtube videos of people with amazing high-tech bases running multiple nuclear reactors with a top-tier auto-sorting system fed by huge RP2 frame miners. I don't have huge amounts of time to play games, and I'm not going to just play MC for months on end, so this is a place I must get to over a long time.
  3. Try to port the world over anyway. With most other mods, this wouldn't be a big deal. I could replace macerators with pulverizors or vice versa. I could pull any assets out of other mystcraft dimensions and just port the overworld. I could use MCedit to put my base in a different biome if ExtraBiomes was going away. But RP2 is pervasive. It has invaded my whole world. I would have to find a way to replace all the RP2 World blocks (volcanoes, marble, etc.) and find a suitable alternative. We'd have to rebuild any tube-based machines we have (and we use tubes more than buildcraft pipes these days). I'd have to build a whole new mining system (I have frame miners), in addition to a new ore-processing system. Any buildings made with RP2 microblocks need to be rebuilt or fixed up. Sure I could use MC edit and creative to make this process easier, but then that taints the "legit-ness" of the world, especially if the other mod's system is more 'expensive.' This is just sounding like option 2 again.

On top of that, if we do upgrade, I don't know of any other mod with a system like RP2 frames. If there is one, please let me know and give me a link.

Sure there's replacements for computers, it's not hard for any mod to add marble and a dark stone like basalt, other mods are starting to come up with nice wiring systems, there's other options for microblocks, and blutricity is totally unnecessary when we have other power options. But what about all of the neat things you can do with frames, that no other mod (as far as I know) can?

Complain all you want about RP2 being closed source, it not being updated enough, etc. but the fact is, it's so pervasive and so loved because of the functionality it adds. I personally think FTB should hold up until it's ready. If Elo abandons it, then sure we will have to move on (although I'd hope in that case she'd open it up for other modders to continue), but I think it's worth waiting for an extra few weeks, even a few months.

Forking the packs would be another option of course, although it would involve some complications (will they be re-merged? What about the RP2 replacement mods if they are? Are we really going to have "Ultimate, Ultimate without Redpower, Direwolf, Direwolf without Redpower, etc.?") Then there's the slippery slope issue where people will ask for this treatment with other mods, and that could quickly become a mess.

*Full disclosure: I go for the Modular Powersuits armor first, and I have made that with nearly all upgrades :)
100% agree
 

Greevir

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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I just wanna make a quick analogy here. I'm a musician. So say I'm starting off. I put my music out there. I start a KickStarter ( or any other type of donation) and I get some donations. The people assume that by giving me donations I will spend more time on the music. When a local record company or whatever asks me if I want to be featured on a compilation disk they're doing for local musicians I say yes. When they go to make a Vol.2 and I don't have new music and I don't tell anyone. I'm not only disrespecting the people who donated they're money and time to me, i'm also disrespecting the people who privileged me to be on a compilation disk. I'm being rude,selfish and downright stupid. And by doing that, if it would be perfectly in reason for the record company to drop me and for the donators to no longer listen to my music. Now replace every "music" with "RP2" and every "record company" with "FTB.

Makes sense? No?
No.
 

Djharts

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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I would recommend that you say something other then no. Usually when you have an opposing opinion to someone you follow up with some sort of explanation. When you don't you come off as lazy and idiotic.
 

Djharts

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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The problem with that logic is that it doesn't add to the discussion. I'll happily discuss RP2 and it's future with you but if you choose to just contribute nothing to the discussion then i'd recommend you go to a different forum. I would like to think people on this forum are relatively intelligent enough to actually add to the discussion.
 

KirinDave

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Jul 29, 2019
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Idiotic analogies deserve idiotic responses.

Incorrect. Adding idiocy to idiocy never helps.

And also, the analogy was wrong. Not idiotic. The entire world is struggling with how to reconcile non-Lockean notions property in a legal and moral world defined by precedents set around such things. The entire world can not, by definition, be idiots because the world has a normal distribution of IQ.

So not only is this post wrong, but it is counterproductive to your larger point because being wrong and terse never wins.
 

DoctorOr

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Jul 29, 2019
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Actually it is my belief that if you know something about the topic at hand, say programming, your voice holds a little more value then someone whom knows nothing.

The topic isn't programming. It's playing modded minecraft.

Again if something is better install it and use it. No one is stopping you.

No one is stopping you from installing RedPower on your own.
 
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