Nuclear Tower of Power (or how to create obscene EU/t)

[Lathanael]

Thats not because power converters are broken, its because turbines were too weak.

You really want me to go over the default settings and show you where they are broken?

You can always say something is too weak. But in general if a mod has a way of converting its power source to another mods power system no other mod should introduce a conversion which makes the original one obosolete while beeing WAY cheaper than the original(e.g: turbines are expensive, power converters are not compared to the turbine)

Agreed.
On a slightly related note...
And is it possible to automate IC2 miners anymore?
Like via a turtle or something?
Place the miner, drop a battery, drill and scanner, place an ender chest above the miner, and then after a time period, pull the scanner, battery and drill from the miner, drop the battery into a (separate?) ender chest and draw out a fully charged one, charged externally, and pick up the minor, move <the range of the miner> blocks and then repeat the process? Of course checking every move and attacking and/or mining the block whenever the move fails.
This seems viable...
Does this sound like a good idea? It will take me (as a poor coder) a while to write, so I want to be sure it will work before starting.
I am unsure of the best way to extract mining pipe and have it dump cobble in ther instead, as flat bedrock isn't installed on my server... And I don't think the CoFH core option for it is turned on either.
What would be the best way to do this. Take into consideration I have underground biomes.

Yes it should be possible if you also have MiscPeripherals installed. Without it, it might get a lot more complicated.

 

[Shakie666]

You really want me to go over the default settings and show you where they are broken?

You can always say something is too weak. But in general if a mod has a way of converting its power source to another mods power system no other mod should introduce a conversion which makes the original one obosolete while beeing WAY cheaper than the original(e.g: turbines are expensive, power converters are not compared to the turbine)

I don't want to start a flame war, but in my opinion, the thought of any loss incurred when switching between two different power types is retarded. The only reason we have different power types at all is because the mods were made by different people. If we want to power everything with the same power source (albeit indirectly), then why can't we?

Natnif, the whole problem of copper is caused by using TE world gen. You can enable IC2 copper gen in the configs, though that may cause other problems that I haven't thought of. Aside from pumping nether lava, the only big/renewable source of lava I can think of is to create it in a magma crucible, although it uses power to do so... we're basically screwed. Just keep draining that nether.

 

[Runo]

Natnif, for the lava question, your answer is centrifuging lava. Use netherrack for lava gen if you feel pumping the nether is cheaty, but centrifuging lava can more than meet the copper demand of IC2. While ic2 may be heavy on iron, reactors are heavy on copper. This is somewhat negated by recent gregtech allowing lead plates for dual/quad cells instead of copper.

Lathaneal: save your power converters agenda for somewhere else, don't derail the rare beauty of nuclear power discussion.

 

[KirinDave]

Not half bad! Though 15,000 copper up-front and 1 uranium every 1.4 minutes (yikes) is a fairly tall order. Personally I'd probably prefer something with a bit higher efficiency at the expense of total output, but with 1-chamber reactors you're admittedly limited in options.

Interestingly, you can satisfy this fairly easily if you have newer betas of minefactory reloaded installed. AFAIK, the mining laser can produce IC2 uranium.

 

[DoctorOr]

I don't want to start a flame war, but in my opinion, the thought of any loss incurred when switching between two different power types is retarded. The only reason we have different power types at all is because the mods were made by different people. If we want to power everything with the same power source (albeit indirectly), then why can't we?

That may be a reasonable argument for EU and UE, as both of them are attempting something like electricity but as described by its originators, MJ is a pneumatic system, and steam clearly isnt electricity either.

All of them are power in the real world. Conversion is incredibly lossy, and high maintenance as well.

 

[Shakie666]

Interestingly, you can satisfy this fairly easily if you have newer betas of minefactory reloaded installed. AFAIK, the mining laser can produce IC2 uranium.

Whats this? What features are there in the latest betas of MFR?

Incidentally, I only just though of the most obvious solution to copper shortages: bees.

That may be a reasonable argument for EU and UE, as both of them are attempting something like electricity but as described by its originators, MJ is a pneumatic system, and steam clearly isnt electricity either.

All of them are power in the real world. Conversion is incredibly lossy, and high maintenance as well.

Playability > credibility. I don't like being forced to use something.

 

[Peppe]

Now then, as the one or two people who frequent the IC2 Nuclear Engineering forums might know, I originally came up with the CRCS (Continuously Re-Applied, Coolant System) reactor setup, but I was never really happy with it. Sure, you could produce copious quantities of EU/t, but it generally required so many cooling towers that it just wasn't economically feasable.

Then I got the idea to spam smaller nuclear reactors, and my brain latched on to the old Water Mill Tower system. Which led to this:

4x of this reactor.

Not sure if this is just IC2, but say it is or we are ignoring GT reactor components:
You can get more efficiency, zero running cost, and high power density out of the plain 0 chamber 100 EU/t reactor. Maybe 10% more copper used, but not much in the scheme of things.

EU 700 720
Copper 1638 1488
Tin 175 136
Bronze 0 0
Iron 686 608
Gold 154 96
Glass 0 0
Uranium 42 48
Rubber 133 28
Coal 0 0
Redstone 84 32
Glowstone 14 8
Lapis 14 8
Diamonds 0 0
Iridium 0 0

 

[Shakie666]

Not sure if this is just IC2, but say it is or we are ignoring GT reactor components:
You can get more efficiency, zero running cost, and high power density out of the plain 0 chamber 100 EU/t reactor. Maybe 10% more copper used, but not much in the scheme of things.

EU 700 720
Copper 1638 1488
Tin 175 136
Bronze 0 0
Iron 686 608
Gold 154 96
Glass 0 0
Uranium 42 48
Rubber 133 28
Coal 0 0
Redstone 84 32
Glowstone 14 8
Lapis 14 8
Diamonds 0 0
Iridium 0 0

A better design, but how will you connect all the inport/export buses to the reactors without making it take up more space? The space efficiency one of the main advantages of this nuke tower design I feel.

 

[natnif36]

I don't want to start a flame war, but in my opinion, the thought of any loss incurred when switching between two different power types is retarded. The only reason we have different power types at all is because the mods were made by different people. If we want to power everything with the same power source (albeit indirectly), then why can't we?

Natnif, the whole problem of copper is caused by using TE world gen. You can enable IC2 copper gen in the configs, though that may cause other problems that I haven't thought of. Aside from pumping nether lava, the only big/renewable source of lava I can think of is to create it in a magma crucible, although it uses power to do so... we're basically screwed. Just keep draining that nether.

Dave.
Please turn on IC2 copper gen.

And it's not ME choosing not to drain the nether, it's BC.
Haven't you seem the latest Changelog?
It adds a config to prevent pumps working in certain dimensions.
I have a feeling the nether will be ON by default...

And doesn't GT add an option to create multi-cells using single copper ingots?
5 copper per cycle per section isn't my problem, it's the 1500 copper per section inta-cost.
If I spent all those resources on tree farms/Bioreactors/boilers/BioGenetators etc, then I would be generating a LOT more power, a lot cheaper, with NO running cost, unless, like someone who has never used MFR, is using forestry farms which by design use a non-renewable fertiliser to generate renewable materials, then there would be an apatite running cost.
And, can't check ATM, AFAIK a Galgadorian cutter costs 2 Galgadorian ingots?
How many diamonds is that? Well, doesn't matter, as iron, diamonds, gold, all easily renewable via EE3, and Pigmen/iron golem farms. Even more so if I go a lot further and use quest rams...
But a Steves carts farm will harvest Natura redwood. Yes, the 7x7 ones. "Don't they take ages to grow? And can the cart plant like that?"
Answer, in the time it cuts down a redwood, another may have grown, if the area allocated to the farm is large enough. One can always use more carts/cuttersit it can't cut them in time.
There is now an "exotic" upgrade that allows one to choose a specific pattern for trees
To plant, from 1x1, 2x2, up to7x7.
This would produce a LOT of wood, and the Galgadorian tools don't break, unlike reinforced/basic.
Or would a MFR farm be faster?
They can't do redwoods, due to redwoods being too tall for then to cut it all down...
Will a fertiliser (MFR) work on redwoods? I do t think they use vanilla mechanics, so perhaps they do, unlike bonemeal. Does the fertiliser work on sugar came/reeds? If so, then it defuses bonemeal mechanics.
A mfr fertiliser, emerald/diamond upgrade should be able to reach a large portion of the farm to fertilise it...

Insane.

And why misc Periferals? For the solar upgrade or something? Or is there something to detect when the miner is done?
Or, most likely, do you mean the inventory (sneaky pipes) upgrade? That would most likely make things easier, yes.
Hmm, if going pick and inventory, would that be best?

And that laser, does it end up making more uranium than it costs to work the laser?
If using that, then the system essentially becomes a bit like a vanilla IC2 reactor based around a mass fab for external resources, a la condensates. It will certainly heavily reduce the effective output, even if it is profitable...

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Not sure if this is just IC2, but say it is or we are ignoring GT reactor components:
You can get more efficiency, zero running cost, and high power density out of the plain 0 chamber 100 EU/t reactor. Maybe 10% more copper used, but not much in the scheme of things.

EU 700 720
Copper 1638 1488
Tin 175 136
Bronze 0 0
Iron 686 608
Gold 154 96
Glass 0 0
Uranium 42 48
Rubber 133 28
Coal 0 0
Redstone 84 32
Glowstone 14 8
Lapis 14 8
Diamonds 0 0
Iridium 0 0

That's certainly a viable alternative, although you go from 720 EU/t to 400 EU/t per segment. Also at that point you run into a problem with being able to physically attach an Import Bus, and Export Bus, a Rednet Cable, and the energy cable on each segment as you stack them. You would likely not see a footprint reduction with the increased wire-wrangling.

 

[Shakie666]

Stuff

You do realise Greg adds his own pump, which was pretty much designed with nether pumping in mind? I don't think its as fast as a BC pump, but it reduces lag by eliminating flowing lava blocks; something like that anyway.

With regard to MFR farms: you can configure how high they search for wood blocks to chop down. I have it set to 100 so my farm works with EBXL redwood trees.

 

[Loufmier]

why bother with redwood for mfr tree farm, if you can use 2x2 jungle tree? aesthetics aside

 

[Shakie666]

why bother with redwood for mfr tree farm, if you can use 2x2 jungle tree? aesthetics aside

I don't know really, I just always have. I think jungle trees might take longer to grow than redwoods, but i'm not certain.

 

[Loufmier]

I don't know really, I just always have. I think jungle trees might take longer to grow than redwoods, but i'm not certain.

so that`s the factor? didnt expect someone to not use ic2 fertilizer for mfr farms...

 

[Shakie666]

so that`s the factor? didnt expect someone to not use ic2 fertilizer for mfr farms...

If I did, then i'd end up with a 25x25x60 solid block of wood. As it is, there's almost always at least one tree at any given moment.

 

[Loufmier]

If I did, then i'd end up with a 25x25x60 solid block of wood. As it is, there's almost always at least one tree at any given moment.

using fertilizer would reduce space requirements. just saying.
also, how many planters are you using?

 

[natnif36]

I have a feeling that Greg will copy the code used for the BC pump as soon as he feels bothered - BC is open source, he could simply copy-paste and change whatever needs changed to make it work for his pump. It removes all flowing blocks, so is perfect for sea-oil pumping also, and can still be perfect for overworld lava.

Yeah, I could ask dave to chane the configs, but the farm is set that way to reduce lag, if set to be able to find natura redwoods, it would cause a LOT of lag (comparitavely).

Thig is, with Peppes design, 2 routers, both with item upgrades, machine upgrades and, for convenience, ejectors if wanted, one could have the reactors all touching, or use furnaces to connect the inventorys of those that don't connect, and just have one router set to put uranium cells into a "nuclear reactor" and the other set to take "depleted uranium cells" from nuclear reactors, and dropping them downwards into whatever breeder system you want. Unlike a coing cell design, Peppes can be much more compact, ESP if routers are involved. A dual column of reActors, with one side of each touching a cable and another a rednet cable, with routers at the bottom would probably be better.

NC
WR

Where N is Nuclear reactor, C is cable and R is rednet, as a cross-section. Column lime that, with routers at bottom.

I however, would also like the rest of my above post answered, so will stop here.

 

[Shakie666]

using fertilizer would reduce space requirements. just saying.
also, how many planters are you using?

Only one, 25x25 is its maximum range with an emerald upgrade. However, the amount of wood means I'm using 4 harvesters.

I'm also using 9 lilypads of fertility, conveniently spaced to cover the whole farm.

To be sure, 25x25 is a lot of space, but it was a lot quicker to set up than a facility for producing fertilizer.

 

[Loufmier]

Only one, 25x25 is its maximum range with an emerald upgrade. However, the amount of wood means I'm using 4 harvesters.

I'm also using 9 lilypads of fertility, conveniently spaced to cover the whole farm.

To be sure, 25x25 is a lot of space, but it was a lot quicker to set up than a facility for producing fertilizer.

for IC2 fertilizer you only need recycler, automatic crafting bench(or other block with same purpose), some piping and knowledge to utilize overflow to you advantage

 

[KirinDave]

And it's not ME choosing not to drain the nether, it's BC.
Haven't you seem the latest Changelog?
It adds a config to prevent pumps working in certain dimensions.
I have a feeling the nether will be ON by default...

I'll believe this if I see it. I see no real problem with nether pumping. And even if they do turn it off, it is actually a better plan overall to quarry the nether.

And doesn't GT add an option to create multi-cells using single copper ingots?
5 copper per cycle per section isn't my problem, it's the 1500 copper per section inta-cost.

Yeah, but it's default. Basically he lowers the cost of cells.

A mfr fertiliser, emerald/diamond upgrade should be able to reach a large portion of the farm to fertilise it...

Insane.

This is not as awesome as you think it is. Most of us don't use big upgrades for a reason.

And why misc Periferals? For the solar upgrade or something? Or is there something to detect when the miner is done?
Or, most likely, do you mean the inventory (sneaky pipes) upgrade? That would most likely make things easier, yes.
Hmm, if going pick and inventory, would that be best?

The only good way to automate a nuclear reactor is the inventory upgrade.

And that laser, does it end up making more uranium than it costs to work the laser?

Depends on the efficiency of the reactor. The Laser is hugely expensive to run, but can actually run on trickle charges. I think it takes 1024MJ for one operation, which is a lot. But you should be able to get one OP a minute, which is all you need to sustain the system.

If using that, then the system essentially becomes a bit like a vanilla IC2 reactor based around a mass fab for external resources, a la condensates. It will certainly heavily reduce the effective output, even if it is profitable...

You'd use this as a bridge to fusion. Also note that AdvancedReactors is out there and hugely opens the design space.