Is Rotarycraft stupidly difficult or am I the stupid one?

[Pyure]

That sounds elitist to me.

Correct.

Its the best tech mod out there, find me one thats easier, less OP, or less laggy.

Easier? None. Less OP? Lots. Less laggy? This is a common misconception about TE.

Best tech mod? That's fine, great opinion. But do you need 14 identical best tech mods? With TE, there's no point in having, say, BC. However, RoC performs a completely different function. Not just in its machines (which are novel but not exceptionally so), but in the way the machines relate to each other. Therefore its still different and viable.

Go look it up, the IC devs saw the writing on the wall and bent to pressure from the community.

I'm trying but apparently I suck at google.


You say this mod is going to wither and die because it doesn't adopt RF? I think its TE pretenders that don't have a chance, while RoC is still growing.

 

[fandacreep]

Correct.

Then why do you like it?

This is a common misconception about TE.

How DARE you say such a thing. The maker of TE (who I don't know sorry) worked his a** off to make that mod streamlined as possible, and you go and say things like that? He is a GOD of minecraft modding, I would like to see you do better.

Best tech mod? That's fine, great opinion. But do you need 14 identical best tech mods? With TE, there's no point in having, say, BC. However, RoC performs a completely different function. Not just in its machines (which are novel but not exceptionally so), but in the way the machines relate to each other. Therefore its still different and viable.

Different doesn't mean better. If I make a tech mod where machines run off air pressure, but it lags like hell, then its not better.

I'm trying but apparently I suck at google.

Do I seriously have to look it up for you?

You say this mod is going to wither and die because it doesn't adopt RF? I think its TE pretenders that don't have a chance, while RoC is still growing.

Puh-leeze. Its glory days are over now that RF is the only power allowed in FTB and people are starting to catch on about how much work it is, and it isn't shiny and new anymore. Meanwhile TE keeps getting new addons which are gradually taking over every bit of content the non-RF mods have.

 

[Pyure]

Then why do you like it?

It provides a modicum of challenge.

I also prefer historical documentaries to reality television even though its not as popular.

How DARE you say such a thing. The maker of TE (who I don't know sorry) worked his a** off to make that mod streamlined as possible, and you go and say things like that? He is a GOD of minecraft modding, I would like to see you do better.

I'm not convinced you know several things about TE. I do encourage you to fire up OPIS and check out your numbers on TE versus other mods yourself however.

Different doesn't mean better. If I make a tech mod where machines run off air pressure, but it lags like hell, then its not better.

I agree.

Do I seriously have to look it up for you?

Condescension notwithstanding, yes please. I'd like to see a link where the IC2 team declares that it is adopting RF. It needs to be more convincing than the official dev and change blog:
Aug 20, 2014:

I've spent the last few days on refining the IC2-ex energy net, getting almost to a point where I can switch the simulation model to real current+voltage.

Puh-leeze. Its glory days are over now that RF is the only power allowed in FTB and people are starting to catch on about how much work it is, and it isn't shiny and new anymore. Meanwhile TE keeps getting new addons which are gradually taking over every bit of content the non-RF mods have.

And yet I still don't suddenly feel dumber, or any particular yearning to go watch the bachelorette. Keep challenging me please, non-TE-modders.

I wonder if I'm being deliberately trolled here

 

[wolfenstein19]

This mod is stupidly difficult, which is a shame, because it could be fixed so easily. This mod is cool and all, and some of its stuff, especially the ore duplication, is unmatched, but you seriously need to go and make this natively support RF. It is already the standard power system for tech mods, and is rapidly becoming the only viable system for mods to use. Not just Thermal Expansion anymore; Mekanism abandoned universal electricity in favor of RF, the Forestry update is making it RF native, BuildCraft is consdering switching to RF, and IC2 just adopted RF as its primary power system. RF is better in just about every way, its so much easier to understand, it is used by just about everything, and its so simple and clean that its so much easier for computers to run. The days of 10 mods and 10 power systems are over, and you need to wake up and adapt or this mod will ultimately die off, and that would be a shame. The clock is ticking, and the choice is yours. Tick tock.

There is so much wrong with this Im going to have to adress it one by one.

1.) RC is fundamentally based, in principle, on a 2 variable rotational power system. All speeds, all machine behaviour, just about everything is calculated that way. RF, beeing a 1 variable power system, is utterly incompatible with that on a very basic level.
2.) easier to understand =/= better, unless you are dumb, which is in your case not an unfair assumption
3.) RF and the underlying code is not clean and not performant in any way, in 1.6.4 at least. Not even remotely. No way.
4.) I think just because you cannot figure out how to use RC you are crying here because you know full well you don't have the patience or willingness to learn to find it out. Thats ok. Don't play the mod then.

How DARE you say such a thing. The maker of TE (who I don't know sorry) worked his a** off to make that mod streamlined as possible, and you go and say things like that? He is a GOD of minecraft modding, I would like to see you do better.

Actually, technically speaking, rotarycraft isnt nearly as bad on server side then TE is.

Its the best tech mod out there, find me one thats easier, less OP, or less laggy.

1.) TE can be used by a mentally challenged 5yo, ill give you that
2.) From a server admin PoV, TE has quite literally been the bane of our existance for all of 1.6. There is no mod known to minecraftians that has more misconceptions about its performance. Its horrible on servers, like literally horrible. The gridhandler is responsible for more then 2/3rds or the cpu load on most servers and it has been like that for the longest time. The fact that these machines suck from a speed PoV also force players into spamming them, causing more load. You can argue as you may, but 100 dynamos at 80 rf/t will cause more lag then a low pressure RC turbine that does 169k rf/t . The cyclic assembler is coded about as bad as you possibly can with an autocrafter. The aqueous accumulator isnt better. The entire mod is maybe good for you if you have no idea how to anything, but only then. /rant.

Tl;Dr TE is absolutely not performant for all of 1.6 and please don't claim so if you have no idea of the metrics behind performance in mc

3.) Simplicity doesnt equal quality. Just because you literally cannot fail at using it doesn't make it a good mod at any rate.


rant over, that had to be said.

 

[fandacreep]

There is so much wrong with this Im going to have to adress it one by one.

1.) RC is fundamentally based, in principle, on a 2 variable rotational power system. All speeds, all machine behaviour, just about everything is calculated that way. RF, beeing a 1 variable power system, is utterly incompatible with that on a very basic level.
2.) easier to understand =/= better, unless you are dumb, which is in your case not an unfair assumption
3.) RF and the underlying code is not clean and not performant in any way, in 1.6.4 at least. Not even remotely. No way.
4.) I think just because you cannot figure out how to use RC you are crying here because you know full well you don't have the patience or willingness to learn to find it out. Thats ok. Don't play the mod then.


Actually, technically speaking, rotarycraft isnt nearly as bad on server side then TE is.


1.) TE can be used by a mentally challenged 5yo, ill give you that
2.) From a server admin PoV, TE has quite literally been the bane of our existance for all of 1.6. There is no mod known to minecraftians that has more misconceptions about its performance. Its horrible on servers, like literally horrible. The gridhandler is responsible for more then 2/3rds or the cpu load on most servers and it has been like that for the longest time. The fact that these machines suck from a speed PoV also force players into spamming them, causing more load. You can argue as you may, but 100 dynamos at 80 rf/t will cause more lag then a low pressure RC turbine that does 169k rf/t . The cyclic assembler is coded about as bad as you possibly can with an autocrafter. The aqueous accumulator isnt better. The entire mod is maybe good for you if you have no idea how to anything, but only then. /rant.

Tl;Dr TE is absolutely not performant for all of 1.6 and please don't claim so if you have no idea of the metrics behind performance in mc

3.) Simplicity doesnt equal quality. Just because you literally cannot fail at using it doesn't make it a good mod at any rate.


rant over, that had to be said.

Insulting me doesn't make you right. Yeah TE makes you spam its stuff, but that's ok, it was designed with that in mind. and OMG 169k RF? That's insanely OP, even bigreactors isn't that OP.

I'm not convinced you know several things about TE. I do encourage you to fire up OPIS and check out your numbers on TE versus other mods yourself however.

I don't know how to use opis, but I don't need to, everyone knows TE doesn't lag.

Condescension notwithstanding, yes please. I'd like to see a link where the IC2 team declares that it is adopting RF. It needs to be more convincing than the official dev and change blog:

Now I can't find it either, maybe the RF-haters got it removed. After all, they resort to insults when proven wrong, if you do that again I'll report you.

 

[wolfenstein19]

Insulting me doesn't make you right. Yeah TE makes you spam its stuff, but that's ok, it was designed with that in mind. and OMG 169k RF? That's insanely OP, even bigreactors isn't that OP.

If I had any confidence in you understanding these things, I would now post about a dozen different opis logs, a couple visualvm profiles and other server tracking metrics proving you wrong. But since you seem to be unable to get these things, ill just have to be content with saying that you are wrong.

I don't know how to use opis, but I don't need to, everyone knows TE doesn't lag.

Im struggling to comprehend the stupidity and ignorance on display here. TE isnt lag free. Its the opposite. Don't pretend you know anything about lag if you openly admit that you don't.

Now I can't find it either, maybe the RF-haters got it removed.

Or maybe you made up a false claim thinking noone would check it.

 

[Pyure]

Now I can't find it either, maybe the RF-haters got it removed. After all, they resort to insults when proven wrong, if you do that again I'll report you.

I keep checking my calendar and its still not April 1st. I don't understand what's going on here.

 

[pizzawolf14]

Just went through this and got detention for breaking out with laughter in the middle of somebody's presentation in Spanish... @Reika has to see this!

 

[Someone Else 37]

Insulting me doesn't make you right. Yeah TE makes you spam its stuff, but that's ok, it was designed with that in mind. and OMG 169k RF? That's insanely OP, even bigreactors isn't that OP.

At the cost of tens of thousands of iron ingots and other resources, the time and effort needed to learn and understand RoC's power system and ReactorCraft's nuclear physics, and the risk of the whole rig blowing up behind your back and spreading radioactive contamination everywhere.

I don't know how to use opis, but I don't need to, everyone knows TE doesn't lag.

The Internet is your friend. And, from what I've heard from other people in this very thread, TE does lag, quite a lot. RoC lag is mostly clientside, in the rendering, to my understanding. Which means getting a better graphics card might help you.

Now I can't find it either, maybe the RF-haters got it removed. After all, they resort to insults when proven wrong, if you do that again I'll report you.

I seriously doubt it existed in the first place. I would be extremely surprised if such an old and popular mod as IC2 that was in the process of redesigning its own power system (which it is) would abandon the system that it had had in place for years in favor of a newer system that they have no control over and is, in fact, incompatible with one of its most important mechanics.

Like RotaryCraft, IC2 has a two-variable power system. In older versions of the mod (i.e. before Experimental in MC 1.6), EU traveled along cables in packets. If a packet that was too large passed through a cable, the cable fried itself; and if it reached a machine, the machine exploded. So, when upgrading your generators or batteries, you always had to be careful to use transformers to reduce the packet size to prevent blowing up your machines. The IC2e changes have currently disabled the explosions, due to bugs, but the two-variable thing (with EU per packet and packets per tick as the variables) certainly still exists, and it sounds like explosions are coming back soon.

 

[fandacreep]

Or maybe you made up a false claim thinking noone would check it.

It's you who is making lies. You keep sayign you have all this evidence TE lags yet aren't showing it *whistles*.

Like RotaryCraft, IC2 has a two-variable power system. In older versions of the mod (i.e. before Experimental in MC 1.6), EU traveled along cables in packets. If a packet that was too large passed through a cable, the cable fried itself; and if it reached a machine, the machine exploded. So, when upgrading your generators or batteries, you always had to be careful to use transformers to reduce the packet size to prevent blowing up your machines. The IC2e changes have currently disabled the explosions, due to bugs, but the two-variable thing (with EU per packet and packets per tick as the variables) certainly still exists, and it sounds like explosions are coming back soon.

The post I saw said the transformers were getting removed. Come on. Did anyone really like that complexity or the explosions?

 

[wolfenstein19]

See this guy highlights the problems with modded mc atm. Because mods have gotten significantly easier to use, an unprecendented number of (mostly) children without any basic understanding of anything sit here claiming they know something. And because their negativity sticks out, that has a detrimental effect on modding in general.

It's you who is making lies. You keep sayign you have all this evidence TE lags yet aren't showing it *whistles*.

Want me to get you some opis profile logs? visualvm logs? Can do, but you probably aren't capable of reading them.

The post I saw said the transformers were getting removed. Come on. Did anyone really like that complexity or the explosions?

Over the bland system that is rf any day every day.

 

[Pyure]

It's you who is making lies. You keep sayign you have all this evidence TE lags yet aren't showing it *whistles*.

Nobody is making "lies". Some people are, deliberately or otherwise, spreading misconceptions.

Some members of the community have used profiling tools to track "problem" mods in their game, and TE frequently appears near the top of the list of "worst offenders."

I'd be pleased to see similar profiling tools indicating that TE machines and infrastructure are actually much better than evidence suggests so far.

The post I saw said the transformers were getting removed.

If true, do you feel that removing transformers somehow definitively means adopting RF?

Come on. Did anyone really like that complexity or the explosions?

I wasn't a huge fan of the explosions, but I was a big fan of the complexity. Apparently thousands of others were too, given that at one point IC2 was one of the most popular mods on the planet.

 

[dalekslayer96]

I suggest you save your own ass, fandacreep. You might not survive.


Sent from my iPhone 96Z using some top secret Dalekslayer Inc. technology.

 

[Reika]

It's you who is making lies. You keep sayign you have all this evidence TE lags yet aren't showing it *whistles*.

I have some here. Wolf is from another timezone, and will likely have some later. I rather suspect, however, even if we bury you under links - which would have the nice side effect of muting the garbage that comprises your thoughts - your opinion will not change. You are no different than people who argue for a flat earth despite having the blue marble photo stuck to their face or who hold "being near nuclear plants is instant death" signs on the perimeter of said power plant. No amount of evidence could ever change your opinion. As far as I am concerned, you are a member of a cult, one largely comprised of ignorant children.

The post I saw said the transformers were getting removed. Come on. Did anyone really like that complexity or the explosions?

Yes, a lot of people's brains do not shut down when understanding that a nuclear reactor and a solar panel are not interchangeable, or that severely overloading a machine does not lead to sunshine and rainbows. They also do not freak out at the idea of having to do more thinking than connecting machine A to dynamo B, then having to - gasp - compare two numbers to see if the energy supply is enough to run the machine. Or about having to design a setup themselves as opposed to imitating block placement they saw in a youtube video.

 

[Bigpak]

I'm just waiting here to see how many likes are smashed onto Reika's reply.

With FandaCreeper I don't want to bash him/her or flame him/her etc but I will say this, I definitely do not agree with him/her

 

[Reika]

I'm just waiting here to see how many likes are smashed onto Reika's reply.

These sorts of replies tend to get a lot.

 

[wolfenstein19]

 

[Reika]

I am a dragon, not a dinosaur.
EDIT:
Just watch this be the post that gets 90% of the likes...

 

[Pyure]

...overloading a machine does not le ad to sunshine and rainbows.

While I feel the reply as a whole was possibly a tiny bit strong, this statement still tickles me and is my chosen phrase of the week.[DOUBLEPOST=1409097958][/DOUBLEPOST]

I am a dragon, not a dinosaur.
EDIT:
Just watch this be the post that gets 90% of the likes...

[ ] Flamed
[ ] Not Flamed
[x] Reika-Dragon-Flamed
?

 

[Petersfun]

This mod is stupidly difficult, which is a shame, because it could be fixed so easily. This mod is cool and all, and some of its stuff, especially the ore duplication, is unmatched, but you seriously need to go and make this natively support RF. It is already the standard power system for tech mods, and is rapidly becoming the only viable system for mods to use. Not just Thermal Expansion anymore; Mekanism abandoned universal electricity in favor of RF, the Forestry update is making it RF native, BuildCraft is consdering switching to RF, and IC2 just adopted RF as its primary power system. RF is better in just about every way, its so much easier to understand, it is used by just about everything, and its so simple and clean that its so much easier for computers to run. The days of 10 mods and 10 power systems are over, and you need to wake up and adapt or this mod will ultimately die off, and that would be a shame. The clock is ticking, and the choice is yours. Tick tock.

I like Diversity, and your are entitled to your own opinion. Now that being said your word choice to give the option of total power conversion into RF is quite poor, Reika's mod is quite diverse when it comes to different power types. Now i'm going to begin to dissect your paragraph and input my opinions and facts into my responces .

1. This mod is stupidly difficult
   • This is your own opinion and does not help Reika validate whether to switch or not.
   • Even if he did switch power types I highly doubt the conversions of power would effect all the Engines, Motors and Machines would change your definition of "difficulty".
2. which is a shame, because it could be fixed so easily
   • This mod's idea is to make realistic power generation and usage. You can't fix something that is working?
3. This mod is cool and all, and some of its stuff, especially the ore duplication, is unmatched
   • More or less OreDict or what you call the ore duplication from a OreDict ore/whatever feature is always changing. Now the fact Reika has them majority correct or even all correct who knows is quite amazing
   • This mod is indeed cool why would you want to change it?
4. but you seriously need to go and make this natively support RF
   • He doesn't need to do anything, Reword this to like "Hey, Reika could you consider making this fully RF compatible or a config option :3 pweety please".
5. It is already the standard power system for tech mods, and is rapidly becoming the only viable system for mods to use
   • You are not totally wrong on this one, But it is not the only viable system for mods to use (I will go into detail later)
6. RF is better in just about every way, its so much easier to understand, it is used by just about everything, and its so simple and clean that its so much easier for computers to run.
   • Hmmmmm, RF is one of the simpler and understandable power type in current Minecraft.
   • Nothing is easy for a computer to run, I say this because power transfer is actually a resource intensive feature. *My interpretation is correctly incorrect and differs from different mod to mod, And has a better way to do what i gave a idea of power transfer :/* Cables are multi-block which interact with eachother. pseudo code => Check blocks Next to me Null or none there? Keep searching... => User placed block next to me! Is it another me? Yes? or No? if No => Keep searching... If Yes => Transmit power Number to said cable or w.e... And so forth each of these cables do this, also connected models incorporates this idea process as well. (This is the basic understanding of this process now there are simplier ways and less resource using approaches to this. )
7. The days of 10 mods and 10 power systems are over, and you need to wake up and adapt or this mod will ultimately die off..
   • First part is true we are coming to a point where everything is more connected.
   • Reika has alot of diversity towards power types in his mod. Now it wont die off because you prefer one power system over another. This is your opinion please do not include me or other people into this Ignorance .
8. The clock is ticking, and the choice is yours. Tick tock
   • Yeah! You're not forcing him to do anything with this!