[1.7.10] The Ferret Business [WIP][BQ + HQM, 500+ Quests][v 0.2.6]

[Caigan]

um te does not have a smeltery it has an induction smelter , tinkers does

Sorry, I meant to say TiC not TE, wrong abbreviation.

Do you know if the next update will need a world restart? Been wanting to start this over for a couple weeks now but have been holding off to see.

It shouldn't, I haven't had to restart in my old test worlds.

I haven't done a proper test with HQM yet in an established world, not until I finalize the last quests.

Ok i posted earlier but deleted it because i was trying out some of the fixes.. nothing has worked

Disable OPIS, this looks like a mapwriter crash. OPIS uses Mapwriter to display lag information on an in game map.

When I crate gold and lead and then submit them to the SAG mill, it works. However, when I go to the QUEST, it does not show the quests as completed.

Crates submitted through the SAG MIll don't auto complete quests in the QUEST Tablet. Its why I removed reputation rewards from all Contracts, so that you could use either method.

The gold contract takes four ingots, but the contract guide states 2.

Whoops, fixed that to match the contract guide.

Coin bagging. If I am bagging a lot of coins, clicking submit and claim reward, over and over again, I get occasional crashes. I hope those are being captured automatically for you? When I restart, I always have a reward outstanding, so it accepted the coins, but then crashed. Also, that mechanic does need some attention. I had over 3,000 coins and submitting each batch of 50, then claiming at the exchange rate, was not a "Fun maximizing" thing. Perhaps larger bags or a straight conversion at the highest rate you have earned?

The clicking and claiming reward crash is a long standing bug with HQM that they know about. As with many things, its filed under "I hope its fixed in HQM 5 when it comes out".

I agree on the unfunness issue of clicking so much. I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but Its changing in 0.1.1 :

• Bagging Coins can now be done via the EnderIO SAG Mill
  • It is important to note that bagging coins is ONLY to save inventory space now, due to the next change
• Exchange Quests now give you a stack of Exchange Tokens for that tier, which you can combine with Silver Coins in an EnderIO Alloy Smelter to automatically exchange coins for vouchers.
  • Exchange Quests no longer have reputation tied to them : Instead, all purchasable items give reputation based on how much they cost.
  • You will be able to craft an Exchange Token to automatically create another stack, for automation purposes.

On the text for the Awakened Draconium chit turn in, it says "all ore has a 10% chance...."

Ah, oops. Fixed!

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My apologies on not being able to get the pack update submitted this weekend. The construction has moved almost literally on the other side of the wall, behind my computer, so lots of hammering. Combined with them disconnecting the internet cables on and off randomly as they work, its been a bit tough to focus and work on the pack. They've also projected this construction work to stretch into next week as well, due to the weather.

Some good news though : I did finish up the Draconic Evolution quests fully, and their respective Blind Bags (Don't worry, the way they are set up, it takes a lot of luck to get not only a DE bag, but something other than a single ingot).

I've also fully tested Fluxed Crystals 2 and will not be locking it in the QUEST Tablet like I had magical crops. I've also spent the time in making all the seeds needed to convert a majority of Magical Crop seeds into equivalent Fluxed Seeds. This took much longer than expected, and I've made almost 40 custom seeds beyond the default set. This also means, later, i can make more custom seeds, but I'm going to save that for a future patch.

 

[gamesetonline]

My apologies on not being able to get the pack update submitted this weekend. The construction has moved almost literally on the other side of the wall, behind my computer, so lots of hammering. Combined with them disconnecting the internet cables on and off randomly as they work, its been a bit tough to focus and work on the pack. They've also projected this construction work to stretch into next week as well, due to the weather.

Some good news though : I did finish up the Draconic Evolution quests fully, and their respective Blind Bags (Don't worry, the way they are set up, it takes a lot of luck to get not only a DE bag, but something other than a single ingot).

I've also fully tested Fluxed Crystals 2 and will not be locking it in the QUEST Tablet like I had magical crops. I've also spent the time in making all the seeds needed to convert a majority of Magical Crop seeds into equivalent Fluxed Seeds. This took much longer than expected, and I've made almost 40 custom seeds beyond the default set. This also means, later, i can make more custom seeds, but I'm going to save that for a future patch.

Great news! I am so pumped about the next patch. I've been playing with friend, and we stopped ever since you posted about the upcoming patch being almost done. We will probably start a new world. So with all this being said, would you say you will finish it by this weekend? Sorry I am so impatient =p

 

[KyunaKyuna]

Ahh, construction! Can you not just have a word with them and explain that an auto-crafter would be quieter and easier?

Thanks for explaining the promising changes to coins. I am now over 10K and love the idea of something I can automate. I tested the manual submit and it does mark the quests complete.

In Exploring the Underworld - More berries quest - I have one of the four berries, the Stingberry bush. When I try to manually submit, it will not accept. Normally, it will take partial payment.

Also, I ran into some of the strange behavior you mentioned with the flux cell submission. Sometimes it works correctly, but other times it will return full cells to the AE system, but will not export it via the export bus.

A broad comment. Perhaps it is my play style, but I am way behind on research and pretty much maxed out on trader rank and shop loyalty. I can get lots of rotten bones and could do an enderman farm for rubbery flesh, but don't see to get the variety of items needed to max that out. I could kill a lot of cows and get the hide as well, but I seem to either be missing something (most likely) or research is just a lot tougher to do.

I am off on vacation for a while, which oddly means I won't be playing MC. Talk to you when I am back.

 

[Caigan]

would you say you will finish it by this weekend?

I'd rather not give an ETA this time around due to the weather and construction stuff going on (tornado warning for us now, yeeeeesh), and I feel bad every time I say a time and miss it. =(

More berries quest - I have one of the four berries, the Stingberry bush. When I try to manually submit, it will not accept. Normally, it will take partial payment.

Those bushes do something odd with the meta ID shenanigans, between gathering them the first time and breaking them. I may not have used the proper stingberry bush in that quest.

In fact...I think I might change these tasks to just the berries themselves.

A broad comment. Perhaps it is my play style, but I am way behind on research and pretty much maxed out on trader rank and shop loyalty. I can get lots of rotten bones and could do an enderman farm for rubbery flesh, but don't see to get the variety of items needed to max that out. I could kill a lot of cows and get the hide as well, but I seem to either be missing something (most likely) or research is just a lot tougher to do.

Reputation tracks are goign to be unbalanced for a good while, since a lot of the underlying pack mechanics are still shifting and changing, so I'm not surprised on being so far ahead in trader/shop vs job title.

Researchology is another that needs to be balanced out as well.

 

[FREEZE_ball]

So do you not have a way to create Essence Seeds with Dust, only a chance to get needed seeds from the shop?

 

[Caigan]

So do you not have a way to create Essence Seeds with Dust, only a chance to get needed seeds from the shop?

Currently, crafting Magic Crop seeds is disabled. Essence Dust was going to have a Supply Contract associated with it in the next version.

For now, to get Magical Crop seeds are via the quests in the General Store : the initial quests are 'random' between a set of seeds. After you do those and gain a bit of reputation, you can purchase specific seeds when you unlock those quests.

Next version, though, we'll be doing the first half of the transition to Fluxed Crystals. You'll be able to craft your Magic Crop seeds into the equivalent Fluxed Seed (or a Universal Seed if there is no equivalent). The version after that, Magical Crops will be removed from the pack.

Fluxed Crystals, unlike Magical Crops, will not be 'locked' to the QUEST Tablet. That will leave only Draconic Evolution locked away.

 

[Slind]

Seeing this message ingame, might I ask what exactly does it mean? Could you elaborate if it is still up to date?

 

[Caigan]

Seeing this message ingame, might I ask what exactly does it mean? Could you elaborate if it is still up to date?

There is an issue with adding people to your 'party'. It is unsure if its just an HQM issue, or if its due to some oddity with forge or cauldron.

Basically what happens is, when a server restarts (usually from a shutdown or similar), other players in someone's party may no longer be in it, and their quest progress reset (because it was tied to the party owner's progress).

It's easily remedied if they are reinvited to the party, but for long running servers, players won't always be on at the same time.

 

[Slind]

There is an issue with adding people to your 'party'. It is unsure if its just an HQM issue, or if its due to some oddity with forge or cauldron.

Basically what happens is, when a server restarts (usually from a shutdown or similar), other players in someone's party may no longer be in it, and their quest progress reset (because it was tied to the party owner's progress).

It's easily remedied if they are reinvited to the party, but for long running servers, players won't always be on at the same time.

alright thanks. Lets see if it is the same with open to lan, but I guess it will be :/

 

[SlyJacob]

alright thanks. Lets see if it is the same with open to lan, but I guess it will be :/

We had similar issue in LAN mode, where I have to basically reinvite my friend every time to the group. But he doesn't lose any progress.

 

[Slind]

odd. Agrarian Skies 2 is using the same version.

 

[Slind]

If you like you can see if the NoTimeFix solves it. If so let me know https://github.com/CannibalVox/NoTimeFix/releases

 

[Caigan]

If you like you can see if the NoTimeFix solves it. If so let me know https://github.com/CannibalVox/NoTimeFix/releases

Aha, this would probably be why some packs don't have the same issues with parties. Much thanks!

 

[UrNotFunny]

Hi Caigan,

Looking at your future changelog for the next version and I think the settings you listed for Aroma Backup are not going to work well.

• AROMA BACKUP
  • DEFAULT CONFIG CHANGES
    • Backups will occur every 60 seconds
      
      
    • Only 5 backups will be kept by pack default.

I think 60 seconds is way too short of a time, no one needs backups that regularly, this will cause crazy amounts of lag and slow down on a lot of servers. Combined with only 5 backups gives you only 5 minutes to roll back a change if something bad happens. A lot of times the player/server admin doesn't even know that something that might require a rollback to backup happened until much later, so having longer term backups is very useful.

There may be some users/servers that like these settings, but I think they can change them themselves, for most users these backup settings will cause lag and won't be useful as a backup. I don't really claim to speak for everyone, but I'd recommend something more like 15/30/60 Minutes as the backup interval and 20 backups (more or less depending on how often).

 

[Caigan]

AROMA BACKUP

• DEFAULT CONFIG CHANGES
  • Backups will occur every 60 seconds

Oops, that should say MINUTES, not seconds! Its minutes in the config, just goofed on the changelog, sorry!

 

[UrNotFunny]

Oops, that should say MINUTES, not seconds! Its minutes in the config, just goofed on the changelog, sorry!

That's much more reasonable!

 

[Caigan]

Okay I really hate to say this, but the update definitely will not be out this week.

My partner's mother just passed away, and we're both a bit of a mess emotionally. We also need to take a trip for at least a few days to sort out the burial and belongings and everything...

I'm really sorry I keep having to put the update off. =(

 

[Raetac]

After a recent loss in my household (cat got run over, I've grieved less over people honestly) I can understand, take all the time you need. Your partner will need you, and we have other distractions to keep us busy

 

[KyunaKyuna]

Hi Caigan,

Sorry for your family's loss. Take care of your family matters first, they are really important.

I will put a few game notes here, while they are in my memory, but do not feel in any way that you should respond until later.

I started up a new world and have some comments on play through that may be of interest. Please take this as constructive feedback. If I didn't like the mod, I would not take the time to offer ideas to strengthen it. This play through, I have tried to use the mod mechanics as much as possible, to see how it plays. Last time I did whatever I felt like, whenever.

The first two sample and tool missions. You may want to consider reversing the order. Most folks will make tools to collect the samples, so having the character say "Go make these tools, then use them to get me a sample," has some logic to it. May I also suggest that the tools not be taken from the player, just checked in inventory? At the start, I need the tools and don't want to lose them for a blind bag.

The general store should open up a bit earlier, especially for ingots. I am finding that I have a metal shortage and no reason to use the general store. I have completed a good number of quests, but still can only collect vouchers. In fact, for a good part of the time I am not playing "The Ferret Business" but am playing "Infinity." I know one of your goals was to have a very open quest system that doesn't force players down a certain path, but I fear that it might be a bit too open. Players need a reason to engage in the quests. The general "gambling" reward of the blind bag dynamic is useful to a degree, but with the large number of blind bags that don't provide much except decoration, it doesn't capture those who are trying to reach other goals. An example of what I think is a great quest is the leadstone jetpack. This is a quest that will interest those who want jetpacks, provides a reward in the shape of what is build and gets the treat of the blind bag. I will have to finish it to confirm I don't lose the jetpack at the end. This is a quest that is resolved at the early game, gives an appropriate reward and is meaningful in game

This contrasts to the jabba quest, Barrel Improvement. That quest starts fairly easy, but escalates to the diamond upgrade rapidly. As it is a blind start, I invest in the quest early game, then rapidly discover that I need four diamonds, which is a mid to late game investment. I drop the quest, lose my investment and get a bit frustrated. If I spend the diamonds, I get a good blind bag, which is probably more decocraft (or at least it feels that way after all the basic blind bags) and I get an upgrade that is not that useful early game. It might be worth splitting that quest into a couple of pieces, so that it can be completed earlier and later. Also, players get a mental lift when they complete something and get a reward, so more smaller rewards are generally better than fewer bigger rewards. And less likely to hurt game balance.

Back to the General Store, it strikes me that many games that are effective create goals, often linked to shortages of something. The store gives you a means to meet the goal, by supplying something the player wants. What might be useful is creating a few deliberate shortages. The end stone and seed is a great example of where you have used a "natural" shortage, in game, to make the store more meaningful. Ingots early game could also do that, if the player could access things early. I know that in my last game, I used the store a fair bit when I needed to set up the AE2 system. However, in my new game, when I try to set up a power system (which will happen in most games), the store won't help me. Having the store available to help early game will make the mod appeal more to players. As it is now, I am putting the mod part of the game aside until I am done with the power system. A game design should pull the player into the mod mechanic, rather than having them step away from it.

The other reason I think the General Store should open earlier is the theme of the pack. We are capitalistic ferrets! We should be buying and selling from the start. Having an open store, even if we can not afford most of the items we can see, is fine. Limiting our buying power through vouchers is fine, that fits the theme, but limiting it by not letting us even see certain goods, is a bit out of theme. It also allows the player to plan for certain long term purchases, creating new goals for them.

I hope this is useful in some way. Keep up the good work.

Later addition - I seem to hve missed when the hardware store opened and that is where I can buy metals. If that happens early, it will invalidate some of my earlier comments. I will look at that some more.

 

[KyunaKyuna]

For anyone who is interesting in game design, which making mods often is, I would recommend having a look at Designing Virtual Worlds by Richard A. Bartle. Yes, it is a text book, but it is filled with insights into why some games are good and some are not, what goes on behind the scenes of a game and how different kinds of players think. I read it a few years back when I was addicted to Eve Online and it really changed how I thought about and enjoyed games. There are some interesting sections on what makes games (and other things in life) addictive, game economics, and how virtual worlds function.