Your thoughts on the Technic Platform?

[Mobott]

If there's already a thread on this, I apologize. I couldn't find any.

But what are your thoughts on the new Technic Platform? I find the idea of easily accessing hundreds of user-made modpacks pretty awesome.

 

[Abdiel]

If it does what I think it does, very good. It is the next natural step from pre-built modpacks, and it's about time someone wrote something like this. I really hope FTB implements something similar, or I expect people and servers to switch over. I would certainly consider it were it not for the community of my current (FTB) server.

 

[gusgillis1]

Its now getting more illegal than it already is, now that users can make their own modpacks, without permissions.

Edit. OK, Since its gus vs the world here, I'm going to edit this, because nobody seems to see my point of view.

Let me re-read the title for you.

Your THOUGHTS on the technic platform?
Hence, this is all my opinion. I know my rights.
I will admit, I have not used the platform yet, but from my understanding, and what the website describes it as, you make modpacks, right? Now, this wouldn't be a problem if you just used it yourself, you know, but you distribute the modpack to some other random people you probably dont know. Some modders COPYRIGHT their work, making it ILLEGAL to distribute among other people without the AUTHORS PERMISSION. See where I'm going with this? People make modpacks, not telling the mod authors, then distributing the modpacks. Now, you see me saying its illegal, but did I ever say anybody could do anything?

Now get YOUR head out of your ass GreenWolf13, yes, I'm looking at you.

 

[Saice]

While I like the idea of users being able to roll their own pack. I would hope that they have some option for mod makers to opt out.

EDIT : I want to clarify this statment a bit. I don't want to get into the legal standings as shaky as they are about mods. But I do agree that the big co-ops like FTB and Technic should at lest repect any request to opt out. If for no other reason that it in the end can drive the mod developer to stop updating their mod or make things explode.

 

[Velotican]

I'm quite happy that the Technic team are offering an "ignore-the-drama" option for the community whilst FTB tackles it from another angle. It gives everyone more options in the end.

My understanding of the new system is that the Technic folks are washing their hands of responsibility for anything hosted on the Platform - think YouTube - and leaving the responsibilities of permissions and other legal/quasi-legal/moral snafus between the mod devs and the pack makers.

This is the only system that's actually going to do the job it's supposed to. Unfortunately I suspect FTB's private pack system, while well-intentioned, will end up being a waste of dev time. :|

 

[Abdiel]

Alright I'll play the devil's advocate for a while (before this turns into a flamewar and verbal slapfight). Disclaimer, I am in no way associated with the Technic team, my views are only my own and do not represent their views or stances.

Its now getting more illegal than it already is, now that users can make their own modpacks, without permissions.

All the Platform does is takes files that you, the user, provide, and installs them into your existing installation of Minecraft. The Platform is only an index of packs created by its users. The Technic team is not hosting or distributing any of the files, mods, or Mojang content. No part of the process is any more illegal than Google listing The Pirate Bay in its search results.

While I like the idea of users being able to roll their own pack. I would hope that they have some option for mod makers to opt out.

Opt out of what exactly? The Platform does not distribute any mods, only links to packs assembled and hosted by its users. All the arguments are about distribution - I don't remember any mod's terms saying "you may not link to a third-party location on the internet containing this mod". And if some mod actually does that, you might as well take your issues with Google, as it does nothing less. The Technic team has stated that modders are free to take actions against any people actually distributing their mods without their permission - that is, the people hosting the modpack - users of the Platform, not its developers. If that doesn't work, go to their hosting service and ask for the files to be taken down.


The Platform has been specifically designed to deal with permission issues. I admit I haven't considered all the details, but so far I think it's a brilliant way to allow people to join servers without a tedious manual installation process, while doing nothing to offend mod authors who are anal about their permissions.

 

[gusgillis1]

Ok, I agree with you Abdiel, but I also noticed another thing while I was looking at it (Note: I have not actually tried it or anything, and I am NOT trying to make this a flame war, though I wouldn't be unpleased if it didn't >
When I looked at the picture for it, it said Add Modpack, meaning if people make it, other people could download it, wouldn't this turn into the same thing for the player who takes the mods and distributes them when the mod authors say no modpacks? Thats my interpretation of it.

Now, let the flame wars, BEGIN![DOUBLEPOST=1362265123][/DOUBLEPOST]

Ok, I agree with you Abdiel, but I also noticed another thing while I was looking at it (Note: I have not actually tried it or anything, and I am NOT trying to make this a flame war, though I wouldn't be unpleased if it didn't >
When I looked at the picture for it, it said Add Modpack, meaning if people make it, other people could download it, wouldn't this turn into the same thing for the player who takes the mods and distributes them when the mod authors say no modpacks? Thats my interpretation of it.

Now, let the flame wars, BEGIN!

Stupid... auto.. smileys.... > : )

 

[Velotican]

There is no doubt that the Platform allows people to distribute modpacks without permissions. Let's be clear about that.

Well, I say "allow", but more accurately it's "doesn't do anything about it unless someone complains" which has already happened at least once.

 

[Abdiel]

When I looked at the picture for it, it said Add Modpack, meaning if people make it, other people could download it, wouldn't this turn into the same thing for the player who takes the mods and distributes them when the mod authors say no modpacks? Thats my interpretation of it.

Yes, if you make a modpack without having explicit or implicit permission to use a mod, and put links to it on the Platform, you, the user, are conducting the offense (we can agree to disagree on whether it is legal, moral, or any other). Just like when you put a copyrighted song or movie up on your personal webpage - you are the culprit, not your web host. Your web host can be legally forced to remove the copyrighted material from their servers, but again, Technic doesn't host any of the modpacks. The Platform is more like your friends putting links to your webpage on their Facebook. You can't make someone remove a link to a webpage just because that webpage contains copyrighted material.

As Velotican said, the Technic Platform doesn't avoid or ignore the responsibility of getting permissions, it only shifts it from the Technic team to the individual authors of the mod packs and their hosting services.

 

[Whovian]

Now, let the flame wars, BEGIN!

Just for fun here, I'll play the part of the Tekkit-er. Having poked about the Technic fora (they're actually a lovely lot unless topics that induce one-sided flame wars such as EE2/EE3, Sengir, Greg, and CovertJaguar pop up,) I'll try to be realistic. I hope this is not taken as my own opinion, nor as anyone else's, this is intended for humour only.

Sengir was a [parody mod edit to keep profanity off the forums that wasn't really made by a mod if the word parody didn't tip you off I want to make it perfectly clear I'm not trying to act like a mod here]. Why doesn't he want his mod to become even more popular than it already is? He made a mod for the community, and here he is, not wanting the community to use it! Ugh.

And this whole GregTech thing! I want to add GT to my Tekkit Lite. Why can't I?

 

[Abdiel]

And this whole GregTech thing! I want to add GT to my Tekkit Lite. Why can't I?

You can, just rename the installation directory not to contain the word "Tekkit" or "Technic". (No personal experience, just what I've read elsewhere.)

But I agree with you, this kind of behavior is really childish and to be frank being an asshole. It's one thing wanting to be properly credited and having control over your work, it's another to literally damage other people's worlds just because they want to use a pack which doesn't even contain your mod by default. I was considering just not using Forestry after this incident, but then I realized this would be the same kind of revenge dick move. I can like a mod and at the same time disapprove of its author's actions.

 

[TheSandwichMakr]

It looks like the ultimate repository of mods distributed without permission. I can't wait for covertjaguar to file dmca takedowns for half the modpacks.

 

[Abdiel]

It looks like the ultimate repository of mods distributed without permission. I can't wait for covertjaguar to file dmca takedowns for half the modpacks.

It is not a repository. The Technic Platform only links to mod packs the mod pack authors host themselves elsewhere. No mod is hosted or distributed by the Technic team through the Platform.

As far as takedowns, it's definitely possible to file a takedown to the person or company actually hosting the files (think Dropbox, Mediafire). In fact the Technic team encourages this on their forums if a modpack does not have permissions.

 

[TheSandwichMakr]

It is not a repository. The Technic Platform only links to mod packs the mod pack authors host themselves elsewhere. No mod is hosted or distributed by the Technic team through the Platform.

As far as takedowns, it's definitely possible to file a takedown to the person or company actually hosting the files (think Dropbox, Mediafire). In fact the Technic team encourages this on their forums if a modpack does not have permissions.

Oh, I hadn't really looked into it and assumed the modpacks just list the mods and the technic servers provide the files. I guess this is their way of not being held responsible for copyright issues. And trust me, covert will file a takedown for at least a few of them because hes done it before.

 

[Velotican]

Seeing as we're already going this far, here's some facts to chew on:

The Plus packs are hosted on the Platform. They are the latest Goon packs and are run by people who - as most Goons generally believe - consider the mod devs to have absolutely no rights to their code and act accordingly. CJ has already tried to have their packs DMCAed... and failed to make it stick. I believe the version of Railcraft included in Plus now is a cracked version even, but I can't confirm that without fresh information that I can't access because it's behind a paywall now. It was certainly being talked about before anyway.

Like I've said when this issue came up before, this whole longstanding community issue is only an issue because the community chooses to make it an issue, but more importantly, it's a bad clash between two fundamentally opposed ideologies concerning what "respect" is.

I can explain in detail if you'd like.

 

[Saice]

Like I've said when this issue came up before, this whole longstanding community issue is only an issue because the community chooses to make it an issue, but more importantly, it's a bad clash between two fundamentally opposed ideologies concerning what "respect" is.

This something I'd had to get my head around as before MC modding community the only Mod community I had gotten in was Nexus and those folks have little to no issues with mods modding mods combining mods ...or any of theat as long as their credited. So the whole idea of a mod author geting upset becuase someone used there mod in a pack was alien to me.

That said I can see the whole respect angle and really only becuse no one wins if the community piss off a mod developer and they stop modding.

 

[zaekeon]

I don't think I will ever understand why out of any game I've ever played that minecraft has the most drama when it comes to mods. Any other game mod devs WANT their stuff published and used and spotlighted etc, a lot of times they end up getting jobs out of the deal if they are truly talented and get recognition. Ah well, to each their own.

 

[OmegaJasam]

That said I can see the whole respect angle and really only becuse no one wins if the community piss off a mod developer and they stop modding.

Honestly, keeping those kinds of mod authors around that has resulted in this whole mess is what I would call a loss. If A Mod authour is acting poorly, in say the nexus, then they are quickly replaced by someone or something better. You lose a bit here and there, but overall the community is much much better for it.

This has little to do with platform. But honestly, if it resulted in a few prominent mod makers quiting. (Any of the type who would put in something outright malicious would be a nice start) It would only give opportunity for more reasonable people to fill the gaps. At which point the drama dies at the head. At which point something like platform isn't needed to loophole around everything because the community is positive enough that it doesn't require Tekkit's clout or FTB's mod maker colabetation just to make something as simple as a mod pack.

*Disclaimer: I do believe in a mod makers rights. I am a softwere developer myself. I just also believe the current controlling, restrictive environment is utterly toxic and we can do without such mod-makers.

 

[slay_mithos]

This something I'd had to get my head around as before MC modding community the only Mod community I had gotten in was Nexus and those folks have little to no issues with mods modding mods combining mods ...or any of theat as long as their credited. So the whole idea of a mod author geting upset becuase someone used there mod in a pack was alien to me.

That said I can see the whole respect angle and really only becuse no one wins if the community piss off a mod developer and they stop modding.

The thing is that Minecraft doesn't have a site like Nexus.

Nexus is a great central location for mods, on the games they support.
And it makes it a good way to have a lot of visibility for all mods, and modpacks can easily throw a link to the included mods.

Minecraft doesn't even have a "search by categories", and it is a pain to look for a od that you don't remember the name off.
Added to this is the fact that some rules of MC forums made many mods create their own site/forums, splitting the content all over the place.

If you add the fact that, back in the days, the mods where a pain to install, conflicts very hard to handle, and updating a single mod would take hours, because you would have to reinstall everything from scratch.


If you see it that way, you can understand why people would not want to spend hours to search for mods, install them, make countless edits to the various config files to work out the ID conflicts, and so on.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not defending the ones that disrespect the authors' wishes, but I can understand why the people jumped on an easy way to play with a lot of good mods, without having to worry about forge version, or ID conflicts.
I was personally of those that preferred to take hours to custom-tailor my game, but it is a work that many people are not willing to do for a game, especially when an alternative exists.
I mean, I even play with FTB now, because it's so much easier to just click and play, and have nearly the same mods anyway. Plus I can add those I want.

Anyway, when a person chooses a product (here, a pack), they tend to only see the good parts about it, and to defend it to great extend, that is just how we all work. It doesn't mean we are right or wrong, nor does it mean that anyone is right in the end, so it can start great deal of frustration on both sides, leading to a conflict (word based, but conflict anyway).

*Arg, again a long post with no content...*

 

[Mooseman9]

Honestly, keeping those kinds of mod authors around that has resulted in this whole mess is what I would call a loss. If A Mod authour is acting poorly, in say the nexus, then they are quickly replaced by someone or something better. You lose a bit here and there, but overall the community is much much better for it.

This has little to do with platform. But honestly, if it resulted in a few prominent mod makers quiting. (Any of the type who would put in something outright malicious would be a nice start) It would only give opportunity for more reasonable people to fill the gaps. At which point the drama dies at the head. At which point something like platform isn't needed to loophole around everything because the community is positive enough that it doesn't require Tekkit's clout or FTB's mod maker colabetation just to make something as simple as a mod pack.

*Disclaimer: I do believe in a mod makers rights. I am a softwere developer myself. I just also believe the current controlling, restrictive environment is utterly toxic and we can do without such mod-makers.

Listen to this guy. He is entirely right.