Steam Boiler

[Colmikex]

Hey guys,

I have been playing now FTB Infinity Evolved in expert mode for a while, and I have decided to build a steam boiler setup.
In any other modpack, I have done the Railcraft' Steam Boiler but I found there is another steam boiler from MineFactory Reloaded. I could not find much information about it (just a few numbers, but not enough to compare both setups), so I decided to run a test on creative.

It seems the MFR steam boiler generates 400mb/t of steam, while a HP boiler is 20mb/t steam per block. A 36HP boiler would generate 720mb/t, but it does not seem worth it, as the infrastructure is huge, compared to one machine.

My question is, Is there any point in Railcraft's Steam Boilers? I know they look so much better (and I wish their output actually matched the setup) but it seems MFR's boilers win this trade in efficiency.

Edit: removed some stupid numbers

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Actually, it is highly irrelevant to discuss RF/t since that can vary WILDLY depending on the circumstances. The only number you care about for output of a boiler is steam as measured in mb/t, and fuel consumption to get there.

A Railcraft Boiler produces 10 mb/t per block for LP and 20 mb/t for HP. So a 36 HP boiler produces a total of 720 mb/t of steam. Your 12 HP boiler only produces 240 mb/t.

MFR boilers produce a flat 400 mb/t. Almost twice what you were using, but about half of maximum output for a max-sized HP boiler.

So, a 36 HP boiler produces almost twice as much as an MFR boiler does, but is a very large multiblock structure which takes days to heat up to full optimization and requires a metric ton of resources as compared to two MFR boilers.

 

[Azzanine]

The point is to make steam. That is it's point.
What's the point of using mfr steam generator...

You have to remember while these mods don't exist in a vacuum, they are kind of developed in one.
As RailCraft did the steam thing first I'd ask what the point of the MFR steam generator is for. A cheesy version of the RC boiler.

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[ShneekeyTheLost]

The point is to make steam. That is it's point.
What's the point of using mfr steam generator...

You have to remember while these mods don't exist in a vacuum, they are kind of developed in one.
As RailCraft did the steam thing first I'd ask what the point of the MFR steam generator is for. A cheesy version of the RC boiler.

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There is actually a great deal of validity to this argument. Much as I'm not much of a fan of RC anymore, they DID do boilers first, and arguably, the coolest (before the nerfs come marching in). You want awesome? Pipes running steam everywhere to all the various things you need steam for around your base. Very steampunk-ish. Too bad you couldn't actually do that, the throughput on most of your pipes was not sufficient to pull it off properly. Although with TD for 1.7.10, you could probably actually pull that off now.

MFR boilers were kind of like 'oh, so people want steam? Here, have steam.' without taking much else into consideration. Currently, I'm using a series of them to run my turbine instead of converting my Big Reactor to active coolant, because it is more efficient. Five MFR boilers and my Turbine runs at max efficiency with 2 buckets/t output.

 

[Azzanine]

Just because MFR boilers are better doesn't mean they are good. While multiblocks used to be laggy AF when MFR came out that wasn't the case so much. MFR actually cheesifies a lot of mechanics other mods have added.

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[RealKC]

Just because MFR boilers are better doesn't mean they are good. While multiblocks used to be laggy AF when MFR came out that wasn't the case so much. MFR actually cheesifies a lot of mechanics other mods have added.

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And that's the reason Etho didn't add MFR to his pack, he said that it feeks like a cheat after a while.

 

[Colmikex]

Thanks for replying guys. I just wanted to know if there was a catch with MFR boilers about this.

I will go for MFR steam boilers, as they seem more efficient and compact. I may remove MFR in future modpacks, as it is getting ridiculous how you can farm resources so easily. They should buff the steam boiler, so it is actually worth it building a 36HP.

 

[Inaeo]

Just in case the powercreep that is MFR was in any doubt:

http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/self-sustaining-closed-loop-lava-turbine-generator.142830/

It's a shame really, because the number of functions the mod covers and the easy plug and play style is one of the reasons modded MC really hooked me at the beginning (Monster 1.6.4). Now, I drop it from my packs because it is simply the easiest way to cheese everything.

 

[Pyure]

The only number you care about for output of a boiler is steam as measured in mb/t, and fuel consumption to get there.

I'm a bit off-topic here but the discussion is interesting. A lot of people complain about the crazy fuel consumption of the gregtech boilers without realizing that the steam-per-fuel ratio is fantastic.

A GT Tungstensteel Boiler does eat 1 charcoal every second, but it can also output 40 buckets of steam per coal (2000 mb/t)

This is actually even better than the 36LP Boiler. According to the online calculator the 36LP will generate under 36 buckets of steam per coal (and with far less heatup time.)

Of course, by the time you can build one, you're not really in the steam age anymore anyway. This thing takes weeks to get to (rather than hours for the MFR thing).

 

[Inaeo]

To me, the biggest drawback to a RailCraft 36HP Boiler is the stupidity of the heat-up period. I'm OK with it using a crapton of iron/steel. I'm OK with it exploding under certain circumstances. I'm hesitant on saying I'm OK with the amount of fuel it uses, but charcoal is easy enough to mass produce. The waiting kills it.

These days, my average length of play session is around an hour and a half. If I build a 36HP Boiler, I'll likely retire before the thing gets heated up enough to use.

 

[Pyure]

To me, the biggest drawback to a RailCraft 36HP Boiler is the stupidity of the heat-up period. I'm OK with it using a crapton of iron/steel. I'm OK with it exploding under certain circumstances. I'm hesitant on saying I'm OK with the amount of fuel it uses, but charcoal is easy enough to mass produce. The waiting kills it.

These days, my average length of play session is around an hour and a half. If I build a 36HP Boiler, I'll likely retire before the thing gets heated up enough to use.

Yeah I'm divided on it. I like that you're forced to make decisions: if it was as simple as waiting for 20 seconds, you could throw 36LPs at every problem that needed a lot of steam. But now if you only need steam for a short period you're forced to consider smaller boilers, and I think that's sensible.

 

[Azzanine]

You only need to wait until 100 degrees. Then it's produceing at full capacity. Anything past that is just added fuel efficiency.
At least as far as ive seen. It takes in game days to heat it to 500º but you don't need it to be.

Also what's the fuel efficiency of the MFR boiler?

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[Pyure]

You only need to wait until 100 degrees. Then it's produceing at full capacity. Anything past that is just added fuel efficiency.

Since fuel efficiency is what we're talking about, that wait is pretty important, and its quite long. This is a substantial issue for peeps who don't run their boilers full-time ( I don't)

 

[Azzanine]

Since fuel efficiency is what we're talking about, that wait is pretty important, and its quite long. This is a substantial issue for peeps who don't run their boilers full-time ( I don't)

Yeah stopping and starting a boiler just shouldn't be done. I guess it's a drawback but if you use a boiler it's kinda gotta be on constantly or not built at all. If you need stop and start on demand power the RC boiler is not a good choice.
You'd use another kind of engine or dynamo. I mean I usually skip from survivalist generators to BigReactors if I have them.
But in Infinity Expert mode I have been leveraging boilers extensively. Good RF and frankly cheesy easy 512 eu generateor that doesn't involve IC2 fission reactors if you don't mind the steel cost.
That also answers OPs question, if using Infinity Evolved some choices of mods and items seem redundant in regular mode but onve you try Expert you realize those mods are crucial. As MFR is gated behind a lot of extra crafting nonsense the real RC boiler becomes the stand up best option for steam.


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[Colmikex]

That also answers OPs question, if using Infinity Evolved some choices of mods and items seem redundant in regular mode but onve you try Expert you realize those mods are crucial. As MFR is gated behind a lot of extra crafting nonsense the real RC boiler becomes the stand up best option for steam.

Not really.
The RC boiler needs tons of steel, TONS, while the MFR boiler needs a machine frame as the hardest component (and maybe those plastic sheets). If you want to build a boiler, it's because you need the power, so you have a few power-hungry machines that you cannot keep up with solar panels/generators. Also, you have (or should) some kind of automation for wood (a MFR harvester or an Ender IO farmer), as the boiler demand is quite high, and those machines are harder than the actual steam boiler. In expert mode, almost half of mid-game machines are done using a machine frame, so it should not be a problem. I think it is not worth getting all that steel for something less efficient.

And, if I am not wrong, the RC boiler needs some blaze powder, which may be an issue in some worlds until later in the game.

Anyway, when I remembered to build it, I was half way through the mid-game, so it was not a problem at all (I already had the ender quarry).

 

[Inaeo]

In a straight up fuel efficiency argument, MFR blows RC out of the water. I don't have any numbers to back up my claim currently, but having used both side by side in some tests, the RC Boilers (36HP @720mb/t) eat nearly three times the charcoal than a comparable MFR (two boilers @800mb/t) setup. If you take into account the much more manageable startup time (fuel being used prior to steam generation), that gap opens much, much wider. The only metric that MFR doesn't absolutely kill the RC Boilers is date of creation.

I forget which WALIA style mod added burn time to fuels, but its not in the pack I do most of my creative testing. That info would help my argument tremendously.

 

[KingTriaxx]

If you want a high pressure boiler heated all the way in the same year you build it, a Firestone is a must.

On the other hand, if you're comparing MFR boilers to RC ones, there's never any situation, ever, where MFR doesn't win. EVER.

 

[Azzanine]

Not really.
The RC boiler needs tons of steel, TONS, while the MFR boiler needs a machine frame as the hardest component (and maybe those plastic sheets). If you want to build a boiler, it's because you need the power, so you have a few power-hungry machines that you cannot keep up with solar panels/generators. Also, you have (or should) some kind of automation for wood (a MFR harvester or an Ender IO farmer), as the boiler demand is quite high, and those machines are harder than the actual steam boiler. In expert mode, almost half of mid-game machines are done using a machine frame, so it should not be a problem. I think it is not worth getting all that steel for something less efficient.

And, if I am not wrong, the RC boiler needs some blaze powder, which may be an issue in some worlds until later in the game.

Anyway, when I remembered to build it, I was half way through the mid-game, so it was not a problem at all (I already had the ender quarry).

Blaze powder can be aquired from a desert, thaumcraft makes cinderpearls spawn which craft in to blaze powder. And Low Pressure railcraft boilers are made from iron not steel. High Pressure ones are made of steel though. Still a lot of iron for the low pressure though.

TBH I kinda forgot that MFR had a boiler. I wouldn't even know it's vanilla recipe let alone it's Expert one. All I know is that plastic took some late game voodoo I didn't have. Was contemplating making a spawner and grinder and going "nope" at its cost.

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[Celestialphoenix]

On the other hand, if you're comparing MFR boilers to RC ones, there's never any situation, ever, where MFR doesn't win. EVER.

Gameplay.

Railcraft wins hand down for doing something interesting to produce a useful result rather than the plug and play simply handing it over on a silver platter.​

 

[KingTriaxx]

Gameplay.

Railcraft wins hand down for doing something interesting to produce a useful result rather than the plug and play simply handing it over on a silver platter.​

Ah of course, the most important situation of all.