Poll: RFTools Dimension Builder Penalties

[McJty]

Looking good! I once made a glass superflat world, so I could set off lots of nukes at once without lagging my computer to death with all the dropped items.

And besides, that glass world looks really cool. I would totally build a base there... if having to get sand from another dimension to replace any blocks I broke doesn't drive me nuts. Hmm... Can ore veins be made of materials other than ores?

Also, could be interesting when combined with ore veins. Hack-free X-ray resource pack, anyone?

Yes with rftools you can make ore veins from glass, netherack, diamond blocks, whatever you like (with associated costs of course).

Also if you specify ores manually and use a different base block for terrain (different from stone) these manually specified ores will even generate in that other base block. So you can make a landscape where you can see the ores through the glass

 

[McJty]

I just implemented a rather nice effect in addition to the debufs you get when power is failing. Gradually when power gets low the sky and ground will darken until it is nearly completely dark when power is gone.

 

[McJty]

Man. I'm having *way* too much fun playing with terrain generator. In the following shot you can see canyons (a new feature!) and tendrils combined. Try to live there

 

[Golrith]

I'm just throwing likes at you, I'm loving what I'm seeing!
I would personally adjust the config to disable the normal world generation dimlet/system/thingy. Being "forced" to deal with the weird and wonderful worlds is part of the "challenge"

 

[McJty]

I'm just throwing likes at you, I'm loving what I'm seeing!
I would personally adjust the config to disable the normal world generation dimlet/system/thingy. Being "forced" to deal with the weird and wonderful worlds is part of the "challenge"

Well there are starting to be a lot of weird dimlets so the chance of getting a 'normal' world is getting smaller every time

 

[McJty]

I implemented dimlets to influence mob spawning (and got diamond ore tendrils by pure luck

 

[Golrith]

Dunno about you, but that looks like Gold to me

Dimlets controllig mob spawning? Wow

Could you have a dimlet that controls sea level? Like Raise/Lower by 10 blocks per dimlet? (max 6 dimlets) Not sure how that would affect biomes and biome mods though.

 

[McJty]

Dunno about you, but that looks like Gold to me

Dimlets controllig mob spawning? Wow

Could you have a dimlet that controls sea level? Like Raise/Lower by 10 blocks per dimlet? (max 6 dimlets) Not sure how that would affect biomes and biome mods though.

Yes also not sure about that. Will try that later.

 

[McJty]

Ok, another addition. I just implemented a new type of dimlet called 'Special'. These are 'special' dimlets (really) that are very rare to find and don't fit in any other category. The two currently implemented special dimlets are:

• Peaceful mode: prevents hostile mob spawning except for the mob dimlets that you add manually. Besides being rare this dimlet also has a considerable runtime cost.
• Efficiency: this is a unique dimlet that 'reduces' RF/tick maintenance cost by 20% (on the total cost of a dimension). It is cummulative but a very rare find.

These special dimlets are never randomly selected so the only way to get them in your worlds is by being lucky, finding them and then being able to put them in your dimension.

 

[Someone Else 37]

Are the canyons basically just ravines that are wider at the top? It's kind of hard to see form your screenshot when such a small fraction of the world is actually solid...

I'm really looking forward to the next beta release! I really like what you're doing here!

Also, I should point out that the only mobs that can spawn in Mushroom Island biomes are mooshrooms, so it's basically the same effect as your Peaceful dimlet, except with mooshrooms instead of regular cows, chickens, and the like. Might want to factor that into how you cost the dimlet for that biome, as well as its associated technical biomes (Mushroom Island Edge, and maybe another one whose name escapes my memory) and ChromatiCraft's Rainbow Forest.

Also, do the liquid dimlets work? More specifically, can they be applied to oceans, surface lakes, and underground lakes separately? I'd actually like to see dimension covered with lakes of all sorts of different liquids. Maybe not as spectacular as a glass house built on a glass bridge spanning a canyon in a glass island with glass tendrils overhead, but still.

When you say that the special dimlets "are never randomly selected", do you mean the researcher and scrambler will never turn them up, or that they never show up in worldgen and the only way to get them is through research or scrambling?

 

[McJty]

Are the canyons basically just ravines that are wider at the top? It's kind of hard to see form your screenshot when such a small fraction of the world is actually solid...

The canyons are actually using the vanilla ravine generator but inverted. So you're looking at inverted ravines.

Also, I should point out that the only mobs that can spawn in Mushroom Island biomes are mooshrooms, so it's basically the same effect as your Peaceful dimlet, except with mooshrooms instead of regular cows, chickens, and the like. Might want to factor that into how you cost the dimlet for that biome, as well as its associated technical biomes (Mushroom Island Edge, and maybe another one whose name escapes my memory) and ChromatiCraft's Rainbow Forest.

Hmm yes that's true. Perhaps those biomes should be made more expensive then. Didn't think about that.

Also, do the liquid dimlets work? More specifically, can they be applied to oceans, surface lakes, and underground lakes separately? I'd actually like to see dimension covered with lakes of all sorts of different liquids. Maybe not as spectacular as a glass house built on a glass bridge spanning a canyon in a glass island with glass tendrils overhead, but still.

Liquid dimlet is a modifier (just like material dimlet). If you specify it as a modifier for a terrain dimlet (Flat, Island, Normal, Amplified, ...) then it will affect oceans and seas in that world. If you specify the modifier before the 'Lake Feature' dimlet then it will affect lakes. In that case you can also specify multiple fluids and you will get lakes from multiple liquids.

Same for material modifier. If you specify it for the terrain then it will affect the base block of that terrain. Otherwise you can specify it for the tendril, canyon or oregen features in which case it will affect those. For the oregen feature you can also specify multiple material modifiers.

When you say that the special dimlets "are never randomly selected", do you mean the researcher and scrambler will never turn them up, or that they never show up in worldgen and the only way to get them is through research or scrambling?

They will never show up in worldgen randomly. The researcher and scrambler will create them just fine. Otherwise there would be no way to obtain them.

 

[Someone Else 37]

The canyons are actually using the vanilla ravine generator but inverted. So you're looking at inverted ravines.

I'm having trouble visualizing that. I guess I'll have to wait for the next beta release.

Also, any chance of rivers at the bottom of the canyons, at least if they're not cutting into open air?

Liquid dimlet is a modifier (just like material dimlet). If you specify it as a modifier for a terrain dimlet (Flat, Island, Normal, Amplified, ...) then it will affect oceans and seas in that world. If you specify the modifier before the 'Lake Feature' dimlet then it will affect lakes. In that case you can also specify multiple fluids and you will get lakes from multiple liquids.

Same for material modifier. If you specify it for the terrain then it will affect the base block of that terrain. Otherwise you can specify it for the tendril, canyon or oregen features in which case it will affect those. For the oregen feature you can also specify multiple material modifiers.

Excellent. Just as I would have expected.

Do multiple instances of, say, the lake feature dimlet make more lakes? That is, would stuffing fifteen lake dimlets into one dimension lead to a dimension with fifteen times the normal amount of lakes?

They will never show up in worldgen randomly. The researcher and scrambler will create them just fine. Otherwise there would be no way to obtain them.

I see. Good for the people with enderman farms, not so good for those with mining machines and/or adventure gear.

 

[McJty]

I'm having trouble visualizing that. I guess I'll have to wait for the next beta release.

Also, any chance of rivers at the bottom of the canyons, at least if they're not cutting into open air?

Well depends on the rest of worlgen. These canyons can be generated in and above oceans and seas for example.

Do multiple instances of, say, the lake feature dimlet make more lakes? That is, would stuffing fifteen lake dimlets into one dimension lead to a dimension with fifteen times the normal amount of lakes?

No, it is not cummulative.

 

[McJty]

Bah, it is so addictive to just try out random dimensions and see what surprises you get:

 

[LivingAngryCheese]

Bah, it is so addictive to just try out random dimensions and see what surprises you get:

Nice!

 

[McJty]

Ok, here it is. The hopefully last beta release of RFTools 2.0. This version should be very close to the final 2.0 release. I tested it as good as I can on both single player and with a server. This is not feature complete though but I think it is good enough for release and the future additions can be added in compatible ways. I'm now going to work mostly on the wiki and documentation (in-game manual). Please let me know if you still find issues in this version. I hope there are not too many but of course bugs cannot always be avoided:

And (hopefully for the last time)! Remember to delete world and config to be sure you get the real experience!

Here is the download link:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ahqvxkcswt7bw8b/rftools-2.00beta5.jar

Changelog between 2.00beta4 and 2.00beta5:

• Fixed the teleportation system so that you now arrive in the middle of the receiver block.
• Refactored the random system for returning dimlets completely. Remove your dimlet.cfg again.
• Added some rarities and costs for common blocks and fluids in TE/EnderIO/extra utilities.
• rftdim dumprarity will now dump sorted on rarity (rarest dimlets on top)
• Added support for liquid modifiers for both terrain (for using in oceans and seas) as well as a modifier for the new 'lakes' feature in which case lakes will be generated from that fluid (multiple fluids are supported for lakes but not for the ocean/sea).
• Added liquid glowstone to the blacklist. We don't want oceans that flow upwards. Really, we don't.
• Implemented better random selection of modifiers in case no modifiers were specified.
• Fixed a potential bug in biome selection where it would sometimes fail to select the right biome.
• Added None material and liquid dimlets to force no special generation for these modifiers.
• Shift-right clicking a realized dimension tab (for a created dimension) now shows more information about what features and stuff was selected for the dimension.
• Fixed spawn platform generation so that they no longer generate in water.
• Added several new material dimlets.
• Fixed a problem with randomness of some information in the DimensionInformation structure to be non-deterministic (i.e. not based on a fixed seed). That could cause some randomized features to be different after reloading a world.
• Added support for syncing more fields from server to client for the DimensionInformation
• Sun brightness factor works
• Added support for sky color dimlets
• Implemented amplified worldtype.
• Use hardened clay instead of stone for the spawn platform to prevent world generation from replacing the stone with things likes ores and such.
• New feature tendrils (a bit like inverted caves). Works nicely but now I have to redefine the grammer a bit to support them better.
• Refactored the way the grammer works. Order of dimlets does matter now and you have to specify the correct modifiers before the correct dimlet for things to work.
• Increased default dimension buffer from 10000000 to 40000000 and increased the tick rate to consume power from dimensions from once a second to two times a second. That way it is actually possible to power heavy dimensions.
• The forced teleport packet also adjusts location with .5
• Reset movement speed after going through a teleporter
• Added glass and stainedGlass materials but made them very rare because they are a bit heavy on worldgen
• Improved tooltip for realized dimension tab
• Allow to specify if a block is expensive for terrain modifier or not. Glass blocks are marked as expensive. This means you can still use them but they will never be selected randomly. For tendrils and oregen you can still get glass randomly.
• The three warn levels for dimension power are now configurable
• Implemented darkening of the sky and ground if power is failing.
• Implemented a difficulty level for the dimension system. By default set to normal. In normal difficulty you immediatelly die when a dimension runs out of power. In easy difficulty you get kicked out of the dimension and teleported to a random location in the overworld.
• Added a new 'canyons' feature.
• All features (tendrils, canyons, ...) can now have their own material modifiers.
• Temporarily blacklisted 'spheres' feature because it is not implemented yet.
• Added a new dimlet type called 'Special'. This is reserved for special style (and usually very rare) dimlets that don't fit in any other category.Added a new and expensive 'peaceful' dimlet that disables hostile mob spawning (except for the mobs that you put in yourselves).
• Implemented a very rare 'efficiency' dimlet that adds a 20% reduction to maintenance RF/tick.
• Prevent RF/tick from going below 10.
• Fixed the matter transmitter so that the dial beam shows if correctly after placing a dialed transmitter back.
• Put Foliage.Oak and Terrain.Cave World dimlets on the blacklist as they are currently not implemented.
• Increased rarity/cost of iron golem and enderman dimlets
• Implemented fast/slow time dimlets
• Added several configuration options for the random dimension generator
• Improved hostile/animal spawn control.
• The mob dimlet settings are now also in the config.
• Implemented the activity probe to prevent energy drain when the dimension is not loaded.
• Fixed some client/server sync issues.

 

[Someone Else 37]

The very first dimension I made in Beta 5 (in a new world, after deleting both RFTools config files) was made with a completely empty dimension tab. Within a squarish area with a radius of about ten chunks, it's an ocean made of molten steel (because Tinker's Construct- no problem there) with occasional islands made of cobblestone- again, no problem. However, outside that radius, the dimension looks very much like the Overworld, complete with many different biomes with their normal ground types and water where it would be expected. Shown below is a screenshot of the interface between these two areas.

Spoiler: Screenshot

On the left, you can see what appears to be a cobblestone mushroom biome, and in the middle, the steel ocean. Immediately in front of me is what appears to be a vertical slice of a stone tendril (side note: I'm facing southward). On the back right is an ocean biome, according to the F3 debug screen, but the game seems to be using the terrain generator for a different biome. Note the sharp, chunk-boundary-like interface between these two areas.

If I go further south, this strip of ocean-plains continues, with more steel ocean on either side. I wrote earlier that the steel ocean seems to be a box of some sort surrounding the spawn point; this seems to be true on the north, west, and east sides. Eventually, there is an area in the strip of land containing different biomes- including beach, forest, and swampland- with the proper foliage and ground covering, and terrain that is somewhat believable for these biomes. At this point, the strip widens considerably and turns westward.

I'm not entirely sure what's going on here, but here's my guess:
- The first pass of terrain generation happens in the normal-looking areas, creating biomes and determining the shape of the terrain and filling it with stone, but not yet applying ground cover, foliage, etc.
- Your modified terrain generator then runs its first pass, producing a new set of biomes that overwrites the biomes already selected for the normal-looking areas. It fills the land in the previously-ungenerated areas with cobblestone and the oceans with molten steel.
- After all that, the second pass of terrain generation takes place. It spawns mooshrooms in the mushroom island biomes, and replaces the top few layers of stone in the areas that were generated first with dirt, grass, sand, and foliage, and adds Chromaticraft crystals and GeoStrata vents to the cobblestone.

I don't know why it picks what terrain generator for what chunk, but it might have something to do with when it was generated. It could be that when I first entered the dimension, it used your terrain generator, then switched to the default when I began exploring. Then, when I left the dimension and came back, it returned to your generator again.

I don't know what to think of the tendril slices.

I should also point out that I've only seen this phenomenon in this one dimension with a completely empty dimension tab. In the next couple dimensions I tried, I added Digit dimlets, and did not get any of this weirdness.

Also, your lake generator doesn't seem to like TiCo glue and Thaumcraft Flux Goo. Both liquids don't work the same way as most other liquids- they don't have flowing blocks, and the "sources" only flow a little bit, in a very limited way. In both cases, the bottom of your lakes are coated with a very thin layer of the liquid.

When I tried to turn the rain in one of your dimension off using the button in NEI, nothing happened. When I right-clicked the button to disable rain, I got kicked off the internal server (I'm running singleplayer) and dumped on the Multiplayer menu.

I see that your "canyons" are more like tall tendrils, related to ravines in the same way that tendrils are related to caves. I wouldn't call them canyons, although I'm not sure what I would call them. Any ideas from other forumgoers?

 

[McJty]

Do you still have the dimension tab of the first empty dimension you made? In that case can you do shift-right click on it and give me the output of that? It is a bit long but you should also find it in your log files so that's easier to copy/paste here.

BTW. Did you also delete your world? Because this does look as if you were entering a pre-made dimension that you created using other parameters first (in a previous version of rftools) and then reenter later. Some of the random generation things have changed.

 

[McJty]

A balance thing. I'm still a bit concerned about getting very OP dimensions randomly. If you just create a random dimension it is very cheap to do that. It only takes 10RF/tick. However, this dimension has a chance of being very OP. i.e. you can get a dimension made out of diamond blocks with emerald block tendrils and gold block canyons. It is rare but it can happen. I just added a command to dump the rarity distribution of material selection. It uses the same rarity system as is used for random dimlet selection but since the number of dimlets is a lot bigger then the number of materials the rarity distribution is also different. Here is the table:

[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:151,    key:"tile.oreDiamond",    name:"Material Diamond Ore Dimlet",    count:6889, 0.06889%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:153,    key:"tile.oreEmerald",    name:"Material Emerald Ore Dimlet",    count:6893, 0.06893%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:150,    key:"tile.blockDiamond",    name:"Material Block of Diamond Dimlet",    count:6987, 0.06987%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:156,    key:"tile.blockGold",    name:"Material Block of Gold Dimlet",    count:7033, 0.07033%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:152,    key:"tile.blockEmerald",    name:"Material Block of Emerald Dimlet",    count:7103, 0.07103%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:175,    key:"tile.dimensionalShardBlock",    name:"Material Dimensional Shard Ore Dimlet",    count:138252, 1.38252%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:164,    key:"tile.blockRedstone",    name:"Material Block of Redstone Dimlet",    count:138316, 1.38316%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:163,    key:"tile.blockCoal",    name:"Material Block of Coal Dimlet",    count:138361, 1.38361%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:157,    key:"tile.oreGold",    name:"Material Gold Ore Dimlet",    count:138460, 1.3846%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:158,    key:"tile.blockIron",    name:"Material Block of Iron Dimlet",    count:138766, 1.38766%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:154,    key:"tile.quartzBlock",    name:"Material Block of Quartz Dimlet",    count:138872, 1.38872%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:171,    key:"tile.obsidian",    name:"Material Obsidian Dimlet",    count:138910, 1.3891%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:161,    key:"tile.blockLapis",    name:"Material Lapis Lazuli Block Dimlet",    count:139305, 1.39305%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:162,    key:"tile.oreLapis",    name:"Material Lapis Lazuli Ore Dimlet",    count:276395, 2.76395%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:159,    key:"tile.oreIron",    name:"Material Iron Ore Dimlet",    count:276573, 2.76573%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:155,    key:"tile.netherquartz",    name:"Material Nether Quartz Ore Dimlet",    count:276621, 2.76621%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:165,    key:"tile.oreRedstone",    name:"Material Redstone Ore Dimlet",    count:277226, 2.77226%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:160,    key:"tile.oreCoal",    name:"Material Coal Ore Dimlet",    count:277302, 2.77302%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:174,    key:"tile.stainedGlass",    name:"Material White Stained Glass Dimlet",    count:621923, 6.21923%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:173,    key:"tile.glass",    name:"Material Glass Dimlet",    count:622383, 6.22383%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:167,    key:"tile.sandStone",    name:"Material Sandstone Dimlet",    count:1036419, 10.36419%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:172,    key:"tile.hellsand",    name:"Material Soul Sand Dimlet",    count:1037250, 10.3725%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:166,    key:"tile.dirt",    name:"Material Dirt Dimlet",    count:1037934, 10.37934%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:170,    key:"tile.stonebrick",    name:"Material Cobblestone Dimlet",    count:1038331, 10.38331%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:168,    key:"tile.whiteStone",    name:"Material End Stone Dimlet",    count:1038433, 10.38433%
[07:03:08] [Server thread/INFO] [com.mcjty.rftools.RFTools]: Id:169,    key:"tile.hellrock",    name:"Material Netherrack Dimlet",    count:1039063, 10.390631%

While (with current number of dimlets) there is only 1/50000 chance of getting a diamond block dimlet there is actually a 1/1400 chance of getting diamond blocks randomly in your dimension. In addition, if you add up all the 'rare' blocks there is actually a considerable chance that your landscape will get some kind of rare block in it.

So, do I have to worry about this? There are a few things I *could* do:

• Somehow try to alter rarity distribution so that in case of a smaller sample the rarer items become rarer (not sure how I would do that though).
• Make the RF/tick different *after* creating the world. If I do this it would still not be as expensive as a full diamond block world for example but maybe a percentage of the cost it would have been should be used then. I don't really like the unpredictability of this though.
• Something else?

Suggestions?

 

[HeraBulldog]

My final suggestion is for you to add some ore that can only be found in your dimensions and making it a requirement for higher tiered stuff in your mod. That way, there's more incentive to go there and keep up the RF requirement.

Different tier's of the complexity

Do this!!

And i would really like if you can make a world like the nether but with dirt and stone and no caves.. simply stone, dirt and ores.. like the underground on the overworld but with no caves from top to bottom.