GregTech

[Bluehorazon]

What in the world is that troll machine in that picture?

It is a self-powering magma-production-facility for powering Geothermals. If you use a Magma-Crucible with a Geothermal and a Magma-Engine it is enough to feed the crucible endlessly

And on the other side it looks pretty cool

I was one of the people who said it looked interesting and put it in the mod request list, but it's not quite what it advertised itself to be when I liked what I saw.

Setting aside that disappointment, I came to frustration.

I can sum things up simply: "GT could be so amazing, if it wasn't so horrible."

To be honest I disliked the 1.4.2-version too and suggested some changes. The 1.4.5 version has a much clearer path. If I wouldn't suck at such things I would build a small techtree for IC2 with Gregs. Gregs does change the basic IC-Progression pretty much but even with TE installed it offers option that are expensive to set up, but once you have everything running it starts to pay itself pretty fast. I'm not sure why people like RC-Tanks who eat lots and lots of iron for literally nothing (a BC-Tank can do the same for some Glass), but complain about using some iron to build a Blastfurnace.

Maybe GregTech needs some improved visuals since people tend to like cool looking or cute things even if they are inferior to existing things (like Thaumcraft).

 

[SilvasRuin]

You can get the same amount of liquid storage space for less resources with the standard glass tanks, but nothing can compete with the iron tanks for how easy and simple it makes retrieving the liquids again. Being able to access the equivalent of shared storage of 9 through 81 columns of glass tanks from any one of those columns is extremely useful and can simplify distribution greatly. "Literally nothing" isn't correct.

 

[ICountFrom0]

To put it another way, IF liquid distribution valves where in the game, placing the valves and the glass tanks, would take twice the space.

 

[Greyed]

...a BC-Tank can do the same for some Glass...

Probably because a glass tank can't? BC glass tanks can only be stacked one atop the other. Each block only holds 16 buckets. My 3x3x4 RC tank holds 576. 3x3x4x16 = 576. But I can't do 3x3x4 with BC, I have to do a 1x1x36. The largest RC tank (according to the wiki, though DW20 claims CovertJaguar has made them larger) is 7x7x9. 7056 buckets worth of liquid. Or a 1x1x441 BC tank. Ya see the problem here? It's those extra ~185 blocks that don't fit in the world.

For small buffers or temporary storage, yes, RC tanks make no sense compared to BC tanks. But for large-scale storage, BC tanks make no sense compared to RC tanks. They compliment one another quite nicely which is why people go gaga over RC tanks. They expand options available to the player.

 

[ICountFrom0]

with the Balance Transport Pipe from additional buildcraft objects, then you could make that 3 pipes and 4 100 tall stacks .... and lots more computer cycles.

 

[MFINN23]

I don't see how anyone can like forcing you to use steel. Why would you want to have to not only abandon eu/mu in that archaic process, but have to wait forever for it to process the materials. It's pretty dumb. If greg wanted to do something worthwhile to get the mods to work together he could make everything eu/mu compatible so you don't have to have different power sources/engines for everything. Using steel just makes everything a pain in the ass.

 

[Larroke]

I don't believe GT is written with BC and its mechanics in mind. Actually, in an IC2 only implimentation GT would actually make more sense.

 

[Confidential1207]

I don't see how anyone can like forcing you to use steel. Why would you want to have to not only abandon eu/mu in that archaic process, but have to wait forever for it to process the materials. It's pretty dumb. If greg wanted to do something worthwhile to get the mods to work together he could make everything eu/mu compatible so you don't have to have different power sources/engines for everything. Using steel just makes everything a pain in the ass.

Try the other mods. Maybe you would like them over the Ic2-Gregtech Tree

 

[Dragonfel]

I think vanilla IC2 is a bit overpowered compared to other mods in this pack. Here's a few examples of what I mean:

- The macerator recipe is 9 iron, 3 copper, and some flint/redstone. This is incredibly cheap compared to the Rock Crusher of Railcraft (12 diamonds and 12 pistons), and slightly cheaper than the Pulverizer of Thermal Expansion which requires more gold and redstone, and Factorization's complicated multi-step setup that can only be powered by a crazy mirror array. The Macerator is also easily powered by solar energy and thus duplicates ore yields for free while the Rock Crusher and Pulverizer require fueled systems or more complicated energy conversion through electric engines. There is little reason to make these more expensive machines and this causes players to lean heavily on IC2 instead of viewing these other mods as viable options.

- The Mass fabricator of IC2 is incredibly overpowered when you introduce mods like compact/advanced solar panels. With large quantities of free EU produced from these higher tier solar panels, you can easily produce endless UU Matter which can be used to make more mass fabricators. When a player makes more than 2 or 3 mass fabricator setups, they quickly trivialize mining as they can begin producing iron, tin, copper, gold, diamonds, redstone and most anything else that can be found under the ground.

- While other mods add pickaxes and tools with new materials such as steel or Thaumium ingots, IC2 allows players to make invincible tools with a bit of iron, copper, tin and redstone. These rechargeable tools quickly trivialize ANY other tools in the game, even with their lack of ability to accept enchants. With the exception of a silk touch tool for rare circumstances, there is no reason to ever make anything besides a drill and chainsaw which will last you forever.

The problem is IC2, gregtech attempts to address this but I'll agree that it's not the best fix for every player. It penalizes the casual players who might want to start getting into UU matter production, but don't have the time to scour the world for Iridium ore. Luckily you can configure it to your preference. If you're not going to break them game with UU production, then simply enable the mass fabricator as I did. As for the expensive recipes, it's not a huge deal to try other mod's tools and machines before you start an IC2 based machine room because you don't need to lean on IC2 like a crutch when there's like 4 other mods in the pack that work just fine at providing these things. And if it really bothers you, you can edit the config to your personal taste.

Gregtech is easily the MOST configurable mod in the pack, it's meant to be edited to your preference. Anyone who can figure out how to work an internet forum will find editing a simple text file much even easier than complaining that gregtech is making their life harder in minecraft. Life's too short to get angry at mods you can configure.

 

[Greyed]

- The macerator recipe is 9 iron, 3 copper, and some flint/redstone. This is incredibly cheap compared to the Rock Crusher of Railcraft (12 diamonds and 12 pistons), and slightly cheaper than the Pulverizer of Thermal Expansion which requires more gold and redstone, and Factorization's complicated multi-step setup that can only be powered by a crazy mirror array. The Macerator is also easily powered by solar energy and thus duplicates ore yields for free while the Rock Crusher and Pulverizer require fueled systems or more complicated energy conversion through electric engines. There is little reason to make these more expensive machines and this causes players to lean heavily on IC2 instead of viewing these other mods as viable options.

Actually, I like the balance between the macerator and the pulverizer. Yes, the pulverizer costs a tad more to setup. However while the macerator simply doubles your ore output while the pulverizer tosses in a chance of extra dust of a different ore. As for power, a sterling engine costs far less than a solar panel and is about on par with a generator, it's direct comparison. Generator takes 8 iron, 8 cobble, 4 tin, 2 redstone, 3 copper and 1 rubber. A sterling engine takes 1 redstone, 1 iron, 5 wood, 1 glass, 12 cobble. A little more redstone, 11 copper and 1 gold and you can have a steam engine instead of a sterling engine.

That's what I really like about Thermal Expansion. King Lemming seems to really keep an eye on how his mod compares to other mods and sets out to provide comparable solutions to basic problems or provide solutions with a reasonable cost compared to other mods.

 

[Dragonfel]

Actually, I like the balance between the macerator and the pulverizer. Yes, the pulverizer costs a tad more to setup. However while the macerator simply doubles your ore output while the pulverizer tosses in a chance of extra dust of a different ore. As for power, a sterling engine costs far less than a solar panel and is about on par with a generator, it's direct comparison. Generator takes 8 iron, 8 cobble, 4 tin, 2 redstone, 3 copper and 1 rubber. A sterling engine takes 1 redstone, 1 iron, 5 wood, 1 glass, 12 cobble. A little more redstone, 11 copper and 1 gold and you can have a steam engine instead of a sterling engine.

That's what I really like about Thermal Expansion. King Lemming seems to really keep an eye on how his mod compares to other mods and sets out to provide comparable solutions to basic problems or provide solutions with a reasonable cost compared to other mods.

The problem is in solar panels though. Free energy systems trivialize the pulverizer in favor of the macerator, which is already cheaper. Why bother with rock crushers, factorization, or pulverizers when you can generate 512 EU per tick free with solar panels. One ultimate hybrid can run a mass fab producing 1 UU per 16.5 seconds (assuming 20 ticks per second) and quickly trivialize mining at all. Meanwhile, I've got an expensive reactor set up burning 4 quad uranium cells at 320 EU per tick that's rendered completely useless by one of these panels.

 

[Greyed]

The problem is in solar panels though. Free energy systems trivialize the pulverizer in favor of the macerator, which is already cheaper. Why bother with rock crushers, factorization, or pulverizers when you can generate 512 EU per tick free with solar panels.

Personal preference? Wanting to integrate into other systems? I loved IC2, it was my first leap out of Vanilla Minecraft into modded Minecraft and quite literally revitalized my interest in Minecraft. I hadn't played since 1.0 because all of the new things added into Vanilla MC weren't all that interesting. Then when I finally decided to stop waiting for Coe to return to his video series I asked former fellow MCers if mine what they were watching. Everyone pointed to DW20's LP. I watched his S3 SSP build and was excited again. Found FTB which had most of his stuff, loaded in, and was loving IC2.

But the more I play with it, the less I like it. For much of the same reasons I dislike Factorization. Mainly, I am doing cool things with other mods which synergize well with one another (BC, Forestry, LP, TE) and then off over here is IC2. I am happier with TE because the same power system I use to run everything else plugs right in to my TE machines. My IC2 machines in the current build? I have 5 basic solar panels that power an Electrical Engine that dumps it's power into a RECell that then outputs to a Power Converter LV converter, into a Batbox, then on up to my IC2 machines which sit idle. Macerator? It was only there for coal -> coal dust for Industrial Diamonds. The Pulverizer now has that recipe. Extractor? I use it to get rubber which I now only use for Thaumcraft 3. Compressor? Again, exists only for Industrial Diamonds. Recyclers? I might as well replace them with void pipes because I have no intention of building a massfab let alone feeding it scrap. All because IC2 doesn't do much with other mods and it is that coexistence which makes these mods, and by extension, Minecraft interesting to me once again.

And yes, I hold the same reservations for RP2's power (even though of all the power systems I've seen, I like the mechanics of RP2's the most) but RP2, unlike IC2, is downright essential when it comes to Red Alloy and gates. Tubes, power, all of the other machines I can do without as other mods (LP) can do the job at least equally well and map better to my thinking. But no other mod provides the functionality of Red Alloy and gates and those can be used with everything. Oh, and microblocks, esp. covers. Glorious covers!

 

[ItharianEngineering]

An ultimate hybrid solar panel needs a ton of materials including iridium to create anyway. By the time someone has it they should have a ton of other ways to generate EU. A simple nether pumping setup using enderchests and liquid transposers can keep 25 geothermals running non-stop netting you 500 EU/t and requires 0 iridium where the ultimate hybrid solar panel does. I have never understood why people feel like they need UU-matter to play this game, but with the new 1.4.5 gregtech it is made much easier to get iridium anyway as you can just use the industrial grinder with some of his new ender ores to obtain it, and if that is still too hard then you can create a mystcraft world with the biome set to sky (the biome of the End) and it will still generate the ores there. Just need to fly around and mine or quarry the ground to get them.

The amount that gregtech is adding is amazing to me and I enjoy it. He constantly adds more content that I enjoy. No, I don't agree with every change, but I can change the ones I don't like. For myself, vanilla IC2 was too simple to breeze through and left me wanting more to do. Gregtech added more for me to do and I am glad it is there. There isn't a grind for me because I don't want a god mode, I want an adventure, I want to discover new things and spend time building huge structures. I like the dusts and the ore and cells and figuring out how to use them to create the new machines. It is just my opinion, it's not wrong and there are plenty who disagree, but this is the way I play minecraft.

 

[PieExplosion]

A rough collection of responses:
RC Iron Tanks fit into low-ceiling buildings better. It's important to note how much space is used with a higher count of wooden waterproof pipes and resources used making more autarchic iron AND gates.
It's rather selfish to expect people to have complete control of their configs.
Solars are only strong because they're simple.
Compact Solars came to existence when people were making their entire roof out of solars causing enormous amounts of server lag. Advanced Solars probably came from the idea that cramming a bunch of solars together to make them good was dumb.
The RC Rock Crusher is expensive because you can actually profit diamonds over time when you properly set it up. Pretty sure Greg just thinks doubling ores is strong. TE's config was probably added to avoid Greg's frivolous nerfing.
The Mass Fab really isn't that overpowered. You're simply using your EU to make something out of nothing instead of using the EU to exhume many times more resources from the ground. I used to play on a server where the Mass Fab was preferred over the BC Quarry.
The Matter Fab is not balanced. It is a never-ending black hole for energy. Attempting to satisfy it will only eat away at your sanity and your will to continue playing. Its existence is a complete overreaction toward the Mass Fabricator.
Invincible tools that can't be enchanted trivializing enchantable tools? HAH. Go take a Fortune III Pickaxe into a Twilight Forest medium/large mound and you'll find that your Diamond Drill is VASTLY INFERIOR.
GregTech penalizes ALL players. Not just casuals. You just shrug it off better when you have more experience. That shrugging-off does have its hard-limits though. I would prefer if he stuck to his own thing of making a T4 for IC2 instead of wasting so much time and reputation nerfing "balancing" other mods. The amount he's added so far is underwhelming and unpolished because of it.
With RP2's return, a large chunk of GregTech becomes obsolete. There are already people inquiring about nerfing RP2 just hours after release.

 

[Hydra]

The amount that gregtech is adding is amazing to me and I enjoy it.

The debate is not about what GregTech adds. I personally like mods that add stuff and that's not the reason I disabled it. I simply disagree with him forcing his own personal opinion on how recipies should be balanced in OTHER mods onto users using his mod.

This would be a complete non-issue if he separated the changes into two separate mods. One with the new IC stuff, and another that 'balances' the standard IC recipies. The first one would be a welcome addition and altough I personally would not use it (I'm completely MJ-based now that I discovered TE energy conduits) I would be all in favor of having it added to a modpack.

However, the second part, the rebalancing, should only be part of some kind of non-standard 'hardcore' or whatever pack that has a BIG ASS "If you run this a whole bunch of recipies will change"-warning when you run it. Because for users who just want to run a modpack and not be bothered editing configs (that's the whole reason you have a modpack with all the stuff integrated anyway) having a bunch of important recipies changed in the mods they know is just very confusing. I for example got very confused when I started out with FTB and could not understand why the Solar Panel recipe was different from what was on the wiki I had bookmarked.

Bottomline:
- GregTech should separate additions and balancing in separate mods
- Additional items / machines should be in the basic pack
- Balancing changes should be in an 'expert' pack for people who know how to edit configs

 

[Dragonfel]

Bottomline:
- GregTech should separate additions and balancing in separate mods
- Additional items / machines should be in the basic pack
- Balancing changes should be in an 'expert' pack for people who know how to edit configs

The config is a simple text document with many lines saying "Hard mode macerated recipe: true", etc.
All you have do is change the word true to false on anything you don't like. I don't understand why anyone would have more difficulty with a text document than they would posting on an online forum. Gregtech doesn't need multiple mods, it needs you to tell it how you want it work.

Also, you said "the debate isn't about what gregtech adds". The original poster was asking about what people thought about gregtech, how is that unrelated?

 

[Hydra]

The config is a simple text document with many lines saying "Hard mode macerated recipe: true", etc.
All you have do is change the word true to false on anything you don't like. I don't understand why anyone would have more difficulty with a text document than they would posting on an online forum. Gregtech doesn't need multiple mods, it needs you to tell it how you want it work.

Like I explained before: the problem is new people who come from other packs (I played Tekkit before for example) get confused that recipies they know or found on the internet have changed and they don't know why. They have to find out on a forum like this one that it's a single mod auther who figured he can just 'rebalance' other mods by changing the recipies.

Also, you said "the debate isn't about what gregtech adds". The original poster was asking about what people thought about gregtech, how is that unrelated?

It isn't a debate because most people seem to agree that GregTech adds nice stuff. The debate is really only about the 'rebalancing'. That's what people disagree on.

 

[Dragonfel]

Like I explained before: the problem is new people who come from other packs (I played Tekkit before for example) get confused that recipies they know or found on the internet have changed and they don't know why. They have to find out on a forum like this one that it's a single mod auther who figured he can just 'rebalance' other mods by changing the recipies.



It isn't a debate because most people seem to agree that GregTech adds nice stuff. The debate is really only about the 'rebalancing'. That's what people disagree on.

Like I explained before: the problem is new people who come from other packs (I played Tekkit before for example) get confused that recipies they know or found on the internet have changed and they don't know why. They have to find out on a forum like this one that it's a single mod auther who figured he can just 'rebalance' other mods by changing the recipies.

But that's what you get for downloading a mod pack and expecting it to be the same as technic. You chose to not investigate what mods where involved and what they offer and change, and so you get confused. Granted, the ftb wiki isn't quite done but the information is quite easily available on the gregtech wiki. Perhaps you should actually read the mod list before blaming gregtech for your assumptions.

 

[Hydra]

But that's what you get for downloading a mod pack and expecting it to be the same as technic. You chose to not investigate what mods where involved and what they offer and change, and so you get confused. Granted, the ftb wiki isn't quite done but the information is quite easily available on the gregtech wiki. Perhaps you should actually read the mod list before blaming gregtech for your assumptions.

I don't quite get why you decide to on this tour. If you want to have a civil discussion I'm all for it but now you're jumping to all kinds of conclusions. Ofcourse I checked which mods are in the pack, it's right there on the homescreen. I didn't expect it to be the same as technic at all, the whole reason I moved to FTB is because it's not technic. But you can't expect someone new to go through ALL the mods to see if they changed anything in the main mods. I had to find out on the wiki that the solar panel change is causes by GregTech. So how am I 'blaming' anyone? GregTech has changed the recipe to 'balance' stuff. That's not blaming, it's a simple fact. And since I personally don't agree with that kind of rebalancing I personally would prefer it to be in a separate mod instead of packaged with stuff I do might want to use.

Some people (like you) say "You can just disable it if you don't like it". I totally agree there and that's what I did. My point is that for new users coming to FTB the change is confusing so I think it should be "If you like the additional 'difficulty' of the rebalancing you can enable GregTech. My point is just that in the default pack all the new users will use it should not be 'on' by default.

 

[raiju]

Hydra (and Dragonfel) this thread isn't meant to be a debate. It's meant for people to just post their opinions and leave it at that pretty much - for the purposes of that I would say that mentioning the addon in its entirety is important for getting a view of the full mod and where it fits.