It's the internets. If you take people who act like asses seriously you simply aren't 'mature' enough emotionally to be on teh intarwebz. Seriously, you can wirte whatever you want to me and I just go "what an idiot" and move on.
People who are being asses have deep personal issues. Many are angry nerds who get bullied a lot who then take out these negative emotions the only way they can: let them out from behind the anonimity of the screen. Keep in mind that these people aren't really sociable in real life and definitely can't stand up for themselves in real life. So they act all tough online instead.
So bottom line wires on stone = okay, wires on machines = bad? Wierd.[DOUBLEPOST=1360752570][/DOUBLEPOST]
It's the internets. If you take people who act like asses seriously you simply aren't 'mature' enough emotionally to be on teh intarwebz. Seriously, you can wirte whatever you want to me and I just go "what an idiot" and move on.
People who are being asses have deep personal issues. Many are angry nerds who get bullied a lot who then take out these negative emotions the only way they can: let them out from behind the anonimity of the screen. Keep in mind that these people aren't really sociable in real life and definitely can't stand up for themselves in real life. So they act all tough online instead.
I think its a little different when you say get 1 or 2 people saying stuff to you.. Its pretty easy to get past that... But multiply that maybe by a few hundered.. Or thousand... And throw in things like DNS attacks and such.. And well its a little differnt.. But your right lots of people can just ingnore that stuff. Its pretty easy.. But not everyone.. Who knows.. Its just a guess.
to OP trying to power a fermenter and a quarry on 4 biogas engines will not produce a sufficient amount of energy. both the quarry and the fermenter will pretty much take as much power as you can throw at them
to OP trying to power a fermenter and a quarry on 4 biogas engines will not produce a sufficient amount of energy. both the quarry and the fermenter will pretty much take as much power as you can throw at them
Actually it's more that, "I want to actively shun people who have abusive licenses on mods." The only thing keeping me from ditching Forestry is how much my wife is loving beekeeping.
I'm not sure what this even means in context, the permissions for Forestry are:
Public and Server Mod Packs: You are free to add Forestry to your modpack and redistribute it, as long as the modpack is strictly non-profit and none of the other mods are included against their license. Yes, this even applies to packs made by people I don't like. Don't expect me to play tech support for your modpack though. (Applies to 2.0.0.6+ and later.)
If Mojang licensed like Elo, we would not be having this conversation.
History has largely shown that popular games that people want to mod where the game publisher actively works against it _get_modded_anyways_. The legal protections stop at distribution of modified code, it does not stop the distribution of code that interfaces with somebody else's code, nor is that interfacing an act of modification in and of itself.
Specifically, you could write a mod that does all sorts of things that happen to rely on Redpower being installed to do them. Including fixing all these crash bugs. The legal recourse against you is somewhere between slim and none, with the most likely result is that the interfaces you use would get changed - but that would require a new release and we can all see how frequent those are.
Now, if such a mod-of-a-mod got included with FTB or similar packs, is an entirely different question.
I'm not sure what this even means in context, the permissions for Forestry are:
Public and Server Mod Packs: You are free to add Forestry to your modpack and redistribute it, as long as the modpack is strictly non-profit and none of the other mods are included against their license. Yes, this even applies to packs made by people I don't like. Don't expect me to play tech support for your modpack though. (Applies to 2.0.0.6+ and later.)
A pretty recent change I had yet to pick up on. I stand corrected. Good on Sengir. Here's hoping he'll go one step further and open source the mod. Cursory examination of the site suggests he has not.
True, but Mojang has enabled this and has allowed modders to collect advertising revenue on pages linking to the mods. That's exceptionally friendly of them. Mojang is not fighting with Forge, it is not doing takedowns on modding sites, it is not fighting with people who really do violate the terms of the letter of the license in many cases so long as they keep to the spirit. Notch is a good egg.
The legal protections stop at distribution of modified code, it does not stop the distribution of code that interfaces with somebody else's code, nor is that interfacing an act of modification in and of itself.
Specifically, you could write a mod that does all sorts of things that happen to rely on Redpower being installed to do them. Including fixing all these crash bugs. The legal recourse against you is somewhere between slim and none, with the most likely result is that the interfaces you use would get changed - but that would require a new release and we can all see how frequent those are.
Actually that's not Redpower's license. Last time I checked, it forbids any and all reverse engineering, and does not publish APIs. So the very act of inferring the APIs is, under Eloraam's interpretation (evidenced by the actions of her and the community which acts as her proxy) breaking the license and intent of the distribution model. Remember when Greg was going to modify RP2 recipes via Forge and RichardG acted on Eloraam's behalf to threaten to lock his IC2 thread? I don't because I wasn't spying on the two, but that's the story everyone repeats. I'm not sure I like Greg or what he's doing, but I know that's nonsensical in the extreme.
Another example: evidently ComputerCraft had to ask special permission to interface with Eloraam's bundled cable API, and that only worked out because someone knew Eloraam personally. Which is crazy because it's trivial to discover that API, and APIs actually cannot be copyrighted in Europe and the courts seem to be taking that stance incrementally in America.
So I am specifically forbidden from doing that to Redpower2. And honestly the hassle of doing it via reflection and class patching is so big compared to compared to the "submit a pull request at github or at bitbucket " that I'm not inclined to do it given that it's against an abusive license on something of a derelict project.
Question:Is the reverse engineering of a technological protection measure illegal under the DMCA?
Answer: The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) made an effort to recognize the value of interoperability to competition and innovation and included an exemption expressly allowing reverse engineering in order to preserve a healthy market in the information technology industry.
A license is only as valid as the strength of force behind it, force which is the monopoly of the State (aka, The Government) It's impossible to state flat out that the license restriction would be ignored or upheld, the restriction against reverse engineering for software would have to be tested in court, but I would actively lay money against its validity. Doubly so for a non-profit exercise.
So the very act of inferring the APIs is, under Eloraam's interpretation (evidenced by the actions of her and the community which acts as her proxy) breaking the license and intent of the distribution model. Remember when Greg was going to modify RP2 recipes via Forge and RichardG acted on Eloraam's behalf to threaten to lock his IC2 thread? I don't because I wasn't spying on the two, but that's the story everyone repeats.
What private people do in addition to the legal restrictions is up to them, but that doesn't mean that somebody is breaking the license just because other people say they are.
Another example: evidently ComputerCraft had to ask special permission to interface with Eloraam's bundled cable API, and that only worked out because someone knew Eloraam personally. Which is crazy because it's trivial to discover that API, and APIs actually cannot be copyrighted in Europe and the courts seem to be taking that stance incrementally in America.
A license is only as valid as the strength of force behind it, force which is the monopoly of the State (aka, The Government) It's impossible to state flat out that the license restriction would be ignored or upheld, the restriction against reverse engineering for software would have to be tested in court, but I would actively lay money against its validity. Doubly so for a non-profit exercise.
What private people do in addition to the legal restrictions is up to them, but that doesn't mean that somebody is breaking the license just because other people say they are.
Likelihood of that mod being used in TekkitL or FTB? Rapidly approaches 0. I'm already working on a mod of my own. I'm not going to waste my time patching up bugs via the most difficult method possible on a codebase with a questionable future when I know with near perfect certainty that the big modpacks I and my friends use would never incorporate it. Especially when it's picking up the slack of someone who felt writing such a repugnant license was okay.
It is, as you said, irrelevant. The idea in the community that someone "needed permission" is what holds back meaningful work by third party members on that mod.
The ultimate outcome of this is probably that someone steals the mod from Eloraam to maintain it after the next update and it enters into a bizarre quasi-legal state like the current Logistics Pipes 1 codebase. But that will not be for me to do. It will never go in the big third party modpacks, and there is this equally bizarre idea in the modding world that "you need permission to include a mod in a modpack."
I do know what's going to happen with that last little bit. I've already seen 2 prototypes of dynamic modpack assemblers for mods that can, given the right metadata, automatically assemble modpacks from any given link. It can even show the download page as it works. I'm really curious to see if they're going to publish that work; evidently it requires a fair amount of extra work by the author, and any author that wants to control modpack creation probably wouldn't volunteer to do that work. But it completely annihilates the redistribution problem for modpacks.
LP1 doesn't have a quasi-legal state, because it followed the license restrictions (which are close to zero, except of "keep it open") to the letter. It is perfectly fine as it is.
The ultimate outcome of this is probably that someone steals the mod from Eloraam to maintain it after the next update and it enters into a bizarre quasi-legal state like the current Logistics Pipes 1 codebase. But that will not be for me to do. It will never go in the big third party modpacks, and there is this equally bizarre idea in the modding world that "you need permission to include a mod in a modpack."
Actually even more likely is someone reverse engineer's her code, then writes their mod using her code as a template. Statistically speaking I doubt she has the resources to hire the legal crew it'd take to do anything about it. Even less if the new coder has resources.
I say good for the modders who have their stuff closed sourced. Fact of the matter is they made something and they have every right to show it as they wish. Elo could have made the mod for herself, showed videos on it and let it be. She made the mod for herself first and foremost, the community is a vast second which is how it should be. I believe today people are too use to the concept of "if it is out there it is free". Maybe I am a greedy person but I want to have some sort of monitary use for my work. If I found a cure for some disease you are darn tooting I am going to charge for it. Because I have bills to pay. I suspect a vast majority of you are over 18 and therefore pay something.
If you were in her shoes wouldn't you want more then just a pat on the back?
I say good for the modders who have their stuff closed sourced. Fact of the matter is they made something and they have every right to show it as they wish. Elo could have made the mod for herself, showed videos on it and let it be. She made the mod for herself first and foremost, the community is a vast second which is how it should be. I believe today people are too use to the concept of "if it is out there it is free". Maybe I am a greedy person but I want to have some sort of monitary use for my work. If I found a cure for some disease you are darn tooting I am going to charge for it. Because I have bills to pay. I suspect a vast majority of you are over 18 and therefore pay something.
If you were in her shoes wouldn't you want more then just a pat on the back?
Given the contactability of Eloraam, general distribution restrictions, and buggy unfixed problems, the chance of "that mod" being needed in anything but FTB or TekkitL rapidly approaches 0. Given comments by Slowpoke in-stream about replacing Redpower logic blocks in FTB, it may not even be needed there for long
I'm already working on a mod of my own. I'm not going to waste my time patching up bugs via the most difficult method possible on a codebase with a questionable future when I know with near perfect certainty that the big modpacks I and my friends use would never incorporate it. Especially when it's picking up the slack of someone who felt writing such a repugnant license was okay.
I wasn't trying to suggest you should, I was trying to point out you _could_. Or I could. Or anybody could. (Honestly though, last time I touched Java, I was working at Sun long before Oracle bought it)
The ultimate outcome of this is probably that someone steals the mod from Eloraam to maintain it after the next update and it enters into a bizarre quasi-legal state like the current Logistics Pipes 1 codebase. But that will not be for me to do.
I've never used Logistics pipes, but the github site for declares it licensed under the MMPL http://www.mod-buildcraft.com/MMPL-1.0.txt which on first pass scanning strikes me as open source compatible.
(Interestingly, the line "It is not allowed to use this mod in any mod packs, if not explicitly allowed." is meaningless, as the MMPL explicitly allows distribution)
I say good for the modders who have their stuff closed sourced. Fact of the matter is they made something and they have every right to show it as they wish. Elo could have made the mod for herself, showed videos on it and let it be. She made the mod for herself first and foremost, the community is a vast second which is how it should be. I believe today people are too use to the concept of "if it is out there it is free".
Actually Eloraam's only possible path to personal compensation is open sourcing. I tell kids coming out of college this all the time. Open sourcing your projects is a selfish action and you should be selfish. Having an engaging, current, and diverse open source portfolio opens so many doors to you that traditionally were only open to people with 5-10 years of experience in the field.
Maybe I am a greedy person but I want to have some sort of monitary use for my work. If I found a cure for some disease you are darn tooting I am going to charge for it. Because I have bills to pay. I suspect a vast majority of you are over 18 and therefore pay something.
Then write your own game, because you are not going to make a lot of money modding a game you do not own and do not have redistribution or sales rights to.
If you were in her shoes wouldn't you want more then just a pat on the back?
I say good for the modders who have their stuff closed sourced. Fact of the matter is they made something and they have every right to show it as they wish. Elo could have made the mod for herself, showed videos on it and let it be. She made the mod for herself first and foremost, the community is a vast second which is how it should be. I believe today people are too use to the concept of "if it is out there it is free".
When it comes to modding that's basically how it always is and in my opinion always should be. You provide something for free, and in return you get the satisfaction of having people use it. If you want to make a real game out of it instead of a mod, you have to make it paid AND also provide decent support on your software. I think it's really unique to the MC 'modding scene' that so many modders want to make a lot of money but don't want to go into all the troubles of actually supporting their software.
This whole "Mojang made craptons of money and I want some of it"-attitude of a lot of modders is poison to this whole modding scene.
Then write your own game, because you are not going to make a lot of money modding a game you do not own and do not have redistribution or sales rights to.
Given the contactability of Eloraam, general distribution restrictions, and buggy unfixed problems, the chance of "that mod" being needed in anything but FTB or TekkitL rapidly approaches 0. Given comments by Slowpoke in-stream about replacing Redpower logic blocks in FTB, it may not even be needed there for long
I wasn't trying to suggest you should, I was trying to point out you _could_. Or I could. Or anybody could. (Honestly though, last time I touched Java, I was working at Sun long before Oracle bought it)
I've never used Logistics pipes, but the github site for declares it licensed under the MMPL http://www.mod-buildcraft.com/MMPL-1.0.txt which on first pass scanning strikes me as open source compatible.
The quasi-legal refers to the actual status of the project. People rumor that Krapht is just working on LP2 in secrecy. If that's the case then it'd be nice for him to make that information very easy to find.
(Interestingly, the line "It is not allowed to use this mod in any mod packs, if not explicitly allowed." is meaningless, as the MMPL explicitly allows distribution)
Well conflicting licenses resolve as the author dictates. If they do not dictate, then uh... it varies. I know that most licenses put in a specific safety valve clause only striking out the offending nonsensical clause. Man are we far afield of the topic here.
You all misunderstand me. If I ever made a mod it would be for me and me alone. I put the work into it so I can enjoy. If I made a texture pack it would be for me to enjoy. As the song goes "nothing in this life is free" so I might as well make money how I can. If tomorrow Mojang came out and said everything has to go through them and charge for it I would applaud them. Hard work deserves more then "good job there son".
