Ultimate 1.5.2 ... Greg vs mDiyo

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Fuzzlewhumper

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There's a message that just popped up with the most recent update.

That update may only be the addition of this.

Exploit Warning: Tinkers Construct adds Functionality, which causes many Blocks to duplicate drops, when being hit by a tool ........ And so on

I believe it's in response to a message I saw saying there is an exploit in gregtech and to disable reverse smelting recipes.

I ignored the original message and didn't think much of it due to it being a single line and I don't do exploits.
But this retaliation from greg is ... epic. His final sentence is...

To disable this Message, bug mDiyo until he fixes it the proper way. Otherwise I will very likely drown you with this text forever.

...

So ... without passing judgement one way or the other...

Anyone else see this and what do you think about this?
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Then let me explain to you:

Tinker's Construct allows the multiplication of any block that has a smelting recipe. It does not check or honor if that block is an ore or not.
I have not observed this with any ingot I have smelted in the Smeltery. It'll double ores, sure, but not ingots.
 

Zjarek_S

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I have not observed this with any ingot I have smelted in the Smeltery. It'll double ores, sure, but not ingots.
It is not smeltery, it is smelting pickaxe with fortune. So metal block mined with this pickaxe will get you smelted drops (ingots), with fortune modifier applied to them. Neither GregTech behavior nor TConstruct one is standard, so this is a bit moot discussion
 

Fuzzlewhumper

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2013-06-26_19.02.09.png

I don't know how to do spoiler tags so I probably screwed this up. Sorry in advance, I'm not HTML savvy.

-ps Cool, I had to go over to post one of the no-topic-thread to figure out how to do a spoiler tag. :) Proud!!!
 

DoctorOr

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It is not smeltery, it is smelting pickaxe with fortune. So metal block mined with this pickaxe will get you smelted drops (ingots), with fortune modifier applied to them. Neither GregTech behavior nor TConstruct one is standard, so this is a bit moot discussion
I'd disagree. Smelting an item (in a furnace) to get another item or multiple items is pretty damn standard. Doing so and also applying a fortune bonus is not standard. It should be the responsibility of the mod engaging in non standard interactions to take care that such interactions only work on the intended targets. Otherwise, it's a dupe bug.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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I never said anything about the smeltery.
What, Lucky + Auto-Smelting? What block is he worried about duping?

Ahh, after reading his... rant... he's completely batshit crazy.

Because potatoes and stone are SUCH rare resources, yanno...

Furthermore, it can't actually be used to dupe anything on that list but the actual cobblestone, and for that, you'd have to have a regular pick to turn the stone back into cobblestone. There is no way to turn charcoal back into wood, and there is no way to turn a baked potato into a regular one.
 
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Zjarek_S

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I'd disagree. Smelting an item (in a furnace) to get another item or multiple items is pretty damn standard. Doing so and also applying a fortune bonus is not standard. It should be the responsibility of the mod engaging in non standard interactions to take care that such interactions only work on the intended targets. Otherwise, it's a dupe bug.
Smelting is a one way process and so is crafting. Greg decided to add a lot of reverse recipes, plus he makes changes to vanilla metal blocks recipes, moving them to furnace. Metal blocks are one of the very small amount of reverse crafting recipes in vanilla, even making stairs you lose half of material.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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You're so unaware of the world that it's a wonder sometimes.
Dear Mr. Kettle. You are Black. Sincerely, Pot.

So, if I am so unaware... please, tell me how to turn charcoal back into wood, baked potatoes back into potatoes, and cactus green back into cactus... because being a 'dupe', means you can set up an infinite loop, which means you can get the same resource out of it that you put into it. Stone is the only exception, and only if you are hitting actual cobblestone, to produce additional smoothstone, which you will then have to place and pick to get more cobblestone. An Igneous Extruder is better.

If he has a problem, he should state what the problem is, not engage in exaggeration and hyperbole.
 

KirinDave

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Then let me explain to you:

Tinker's Construct allows the multiplication of any block that has a smelting recipe. It does not check or honor if that block is an ore or not.

As far as I know, only gregtech has this problem tough. He's the only one weird enough to suggest you should be able to smelt down things in the default furnace.

For those who are curious: the fix is to disable all the smelting recipes in Greg's dynamic config. mDiyo rightly doesn't want to check "if it is an ore" because his recipe is applicable to a lot of blocks, including BoP blocks and other non-ore vanilla blocks. For example, you can make glass directly with a tool, or directly harvest Nether Brick from Netherrack. It also lets you avoid cobble entirely, directly collecting smooth stone (or rather, it did until I updated my modpack, not sure if he's removing that intentionally or not...).[DOUBLEPOST=1372292642][/DOUBLEPOST]
What, Lucky + Auto-Smelting? What block is he worried about duping?

Ahh, after reading his... rant... he's completely batshit crazy.

Because potatoes and stone are SUCH rare resources, yanno...

Furthermore, it can't actually be used to dupe anything on that list but the actual cobblestone, and for that, you'd have to have a regular pick to turn the stone back into cobblestone. There is no way to turn charcoal back into wood, and there is no way to turn a baked potato into a regular one.

The problem comes from how Fortune interacts with Auto-Smelting. It multiplies the yield in some cases. It's designed for about ~2.5x max return in the best case. Some blocks yield a LOT of metal back, and thus are good targets for this. The Anvil comes to mind as something you can dupe iron with rapidly.

Ultimately, modpack maintainers need to remove the smelting recipes if they want to pair these mods.
 

DoctorOr

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Smelting is a one way process and so is crafting. Greg decided to add a lot of reverse recipes plus he makes changes to vanilla metal blocks recipes, moving them to furnace. Metal blocks are one of the very small amount of reverse crafting recipes in vanilla, even making stairs you lose half of material.
More things should have a reverse recipe, but that's just the dupe loop. You can increase output of any item which is a block and has a smelting recipe. Several are vanilla. The problem is in the smelting+fortune. It's little different from having a machine which will give you two blocks for every one you put in.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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As far as I know, only gregtech has this problem tough. He's the only one weird enough to suggest you should be able to smelt down things in the default furnace.
So why doesn't he just come out and say that the problem is with his asinine method of smelting to get stuff back instead of spamming everyone with whining about things that aren't actually a problem...

EDIT: I can't wait until he finds out what Dartcraft can do with Grinding + Fortune... Grinding pulverizes, which is how you break down metal blocks in GregTech...
 
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KirinDave

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So why doesn't he just come out and say that the problem is with his asinine method of smelting to get stuff back instead of spamming everyone with whining about things that aren't actually a problem...

EDIT: I can't wait until he finds out what Dartcraft can do with Grinding + Fortune... Grinding pulverizes, which is how you break down metal blocks in GregTech...

BlueDart explicitly disables this. His fortune is "aware" of Grinding and does different things based on different recipes.

Fortune on Grinding with TE is very powerful. If you hit an ore it doesn't increase the 2x yield, but instead increases the chance of the secondary yield. Which is VERY good.
 

MySideYourSide

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Greg could just let you reclaim ingots from items/blocks using a crafting table like many other mods. As time goes by, I'm more satisfied with my decision to never install GT
 
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