The Magmatic Engine

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Zandorum

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Jul 29, 2019
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I find the Magmatic Engine to be a little too useful. Once you get to the stage in which you can move lava from the nether, there is no longer a reason to use any other RF power producer. If you say Big Reactors, I say a more costly engine, because in the end I can just make 100 more Magmatic Engines and still be fine. The lava lake will dry up? Move the Pump, Its simple.

Every now and again I have to move the pump but what If I don't want to? Make a Lava Ocean Mystcraft Dimension. You could say "Oh but lets make the recipe harder then." but that doesn't fix the problem unless you can make it the very last thing you'd make making it so hard that making them in bulk is End Game; it needs to require more to run or some kind of cost that isn't just lava or at the very least even though its not fixing the problem lower it to produce 20 RF/t so it takes more to engorge yourself with power.

My current idea to fix it is that it requires a form of coolant that is not water due to how hot it should get. Maybe Gelid Cryotheium, but only a very small amount over time (Maybe 1 Bucket is like 30 minutes or something) so it require some maintenance and is a very very small resource sink but still a resource sink none the less.

Something cool that could be added is that it could run for a certain amount of time without Gelid Cryotheium before it would melt into a Lava Block so if you were earlier game it would take player management instead of the Gelid Crytheium (No Redstone output or way to have Redstone figure out that its about to melt though so it cant be automated to not have Gelid Cryotheium in it).

What does everyone else think? I'd really like everyone's opinion on this, I feel like the minority. It feels really exploitable and I don't think its ok as it is right now.
 
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zemerick

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Jul 29, 2019
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The problem isn't the Dynamo, it's the combination of things you are adding into it. This is another "EE2 is OP" scenario.

Without the ender-thermic pump, obtaining the lava becomes a major issue real fast. ( Even the less laggy alternative pumps don't scale enough to run several thousand magmatic dynamos. )

Without the Mystcraft Lava Age, moving the pump(s) will very quickly become a pain. ( I can personally speak to this having made a 300 some odd Magmatic Dynamo engine...and could not keep up with the lava demand, and also had to completely rebuild my lava storage and delivery due to lag. )

Early game there are also several better options.

Finally, I think the vast size and quantity of the dynamos balances them. They produce extremely little power individually. I'm pretty sure a Reactorcraft Fusion reactor is smaller and probably less resources than an equivalent Magmatic Dynamo setup.

If you still don't like something, those above interactions are the things to target. The dynamo by itself is just fine.
 

Zandorum

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Jul 29, 2019
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Meh. If people want to go the boring lava route, let them.
I take this route because its the best route until late game and then they are still useful. It removes the whole concept of using any other type of engine weaker than it. There is no reason to use Biofuel or Steam.

Also, why is everything that is still useful end game considered OP?
Because they are too useful early game and interrupt it.

1. The problem isn't the Dynamo, it's the combination of things you are adding into it. This is another "EE2 is OP" scenario.
2. Without the ender-thermic pump, obtaining the lava becomes a major issue real fast. ( Even the less laggy alternative pumps don't scale enough to run several thousand magmatic dynamos. )
3. Without the Mystcraft Lava Age, moving the pump(s) will very quickly become a pain. ( I can personally speak to this having made a 300 some odd Magmatic Dynamo engine...and could not keep up with the lava demand, and also had to completely rebuild my lava storage and delivery due to lag. )
4. Early game there are also several better options.
5. Finally, I think the vast size and quantity of the dynamos balances them. They produce extremely little power individually.
6. I'm pretty sure a Reactorcraft Fusion reactor is smaller and probably less resources than an equivalent Magmatic Dynamo setup.
7. If you still don't like something, those above interactions are the things to target. The dynamo by itself is just fine.
1. EE2 is OP even on its own. It's progression it 30 minutes long if you know what your doing. You cant tell me that only 30 minutes long of gameplay is what you want out of minecraft because if it is you don't actually want to play minecraft. If it's because you want easy building materials play with Not Enough Items/Too Many Items/Creative without flight. If you want to build something and lie that you worked for it (Condensers) then I guess your fine being judged because you didn't work for it at all (Let's not make this a EE2 is OP topic though and drop it here).
2. Thats fixed by Magma Crucibles being powered by Industrialcraft Solar Panels converted by the Electric Engine in Forestry with Resonant Energy Cell Buffers so it can last the night assuming I don't have the Mystcraft replacement or a way to change the time to day legitimately.
3. Thats fixed by even More IC2 Powered Magma Crucibles.
4. If you rush to making an Ender Tank and Magmatic first thing its not because then you have the power to Pulverize in which you make another Magmatic quickly. If your asking how I got the Dust the AE2 Grindstone.
5. I find that your even able to do that in that much quantity is broken in itself due to how abundant lava is and can be.
6. It is, I do eventually do that in my Playthroughs.
7. If I had to I'd Minetweaker the Grindstone recipe to not exist (Making it unobtainable), make the Ender Tank Recipe on par with the Tesseract in difficulty, make Ender-infused Obsidian recipe output 1 instead of 4 Ender-infused Obsidian and Probably make the Forestry Electric Engine not have a recipe as well (Making it unobtainable) to stop the Solar Panel fix. However this would not stop me from making it later. Without Mystcraft it would still be Fairly easy with the IC2 Powered Magma Crucibles, but this could be fixed by removing the IC2 Bridge but this is an easily broken thing by another mod.
 
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Wagon153

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Jul 29, 2019
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I take this route because its the best route until late game and then they are still useful. It removes the whole concept of using any other type of engine weaker than it. There is no reason to use Biofuel or Steam.


Because they are too useful early game and interrupt it.



1. EE2 is OP even on its own. It's progression it 30 minutes long if you know what your doing. You cant tell me that only 30 minutes long of gameplay is what you want out of minecraft because if it is you don't actually want to play minecraft. If it's because you want easy building materials play creative without flight. If you want to build something and lie that you worked for it (Condensers) then I guess your fine being judged because you didn't work for it at all (Let's not make this a EE2 is OP topic though and drop it here).
2. Thats fixed by Magma Crucibles being powered by Industrialcraft Solar Panels converted by the Electric Engine in Forestry.
3. Thats fixed by even More IC2 Powered Magma Crucibles.
4. If you rush to making an Ender Tank and Magmatic first thing its not because then you have the power to Pulverize in which you make another Magmatic quickly. If your asking how I got the Dust the AE2 Grindstone.
5. I find that your even able to do that in that much quantity is broken in itself.
6. It is, I do eventually do that in my Playthroughs.
7. If I had to I'd Minetweaker the Grindstone recipe to not exist (Making it unobtainable), make the Ender Tank Recipe on par with the Tesseract in difficulty and make Ender-infused Obsidian recipe output 1 instead of 4 Ender-infused Obsidian. However this would not stop me from making it later. Without Mystcraft it would still be Fairly easy with the IC2 Powered Magma Crucibles, but this could be fixed by removing the IC2 Bridge but this is an easily broken thing by another mod.
This though is not necessarily TE's fault. All mods are balanced against vanilla. Getting the lava for the dynamos is using several mods, something TE was not balanced against. Nerfing the magmatic dynamos would be unfair to players who only play with TE and no other mods. Balancing mods against each other is the modpack maker's job, not the mod dev's.
 

RenzosNips

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Jul 29, 2019
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Disable the engine? I mean, if you think it's OP (Whatever that means in a sandbox game with 1000000 mods that can be combined in infinite ways), don't use it. Remove the recipe from the game.
In vanilla TE, you don't get a ton of lava easy. It's only through cross mod applications does the engine really shine. So if you really think it's over powered, it's because you haven't changed the configs of your pack properly. That's what configs are for, to change things to YOUR liking. I've been doing private server packs since ... I don't even know at this point, and it boggles my mind that you are GIVEN the tools you need to create the pack you want your way, and instead, you complain about an aspect.
If you want your lava gen with coolent, use a mod that does that and disable TE's lava gen, or create the mod yourself. TE is balanced according to the author, just like every other mod, and saying you should change a feature because YOU think it's OP is stupid. I hate certain aspects of some of @Reika 's mods, but I'm not gonna create a thread about how to change these aspects. If Reika asks, sure, I may give my suggestions but...
 

Reika

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I will agree that the flat 80RF/t output of all TE engines - outpacing any of its predecessors (which peak at the 60RF/t Combustion Engine) at that - is a problem, but it is a stretch to call the magmatic engine "overpowered". More often than not, the real problem is that RF-driven machines often only need tiny amounts of energy to operate.
 

Zandorum

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Jul 29, 2019
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Disable the engine? I mean, if you think it's OP (Whatever that means in a sandbox game with 1000000 mods that can be combined in infinite ways), don't use it. Remove the recipe from the game.
In vanilla TE, you don't get a ton of lava easy. It's only through cross mod applications does the engine really shine. So if you really think it's over powered, it's because you haven't changed the configs of your pack properly. That's what configs are for, to change things to YOUR liking. I've been doing private server packs since ... I don't even know at this point, and it boggles my mind that you are GIVEN the tools you need to create the pack you want your way, and instead, you complain about an aspect.
If you want your lava gen with coolent, use a mod that does that and disable TE's lava gen, or create the mod yourself. TE is balanced according to the author, just like every other mod, and saying you should change a feature because YOU think it's OP is stupid. I hate certain aspects of some of @Reika 's mods, but I'm not gonna create a thread about how to change these aspects. If Reika asks, sure, I may give my suggestions but...
I'd like an engine that uses Lava as fuel, but I'd like a form of balancing feature. Ender Tanks and Tesseracts are more the issue for me personally with this setup but they are fine in all other circumstances. I also use Minetweaker, Modtweaker and configs to change my minecraft to my liking but I feel that the end doesn't need to go either just again some sort of balancing feature. I just think overall using the lava in the nether is overpowered due to its abundance makes it almost as worthless as water... almost.

I will agree that the flat 80RF/t output of all TE engines - outpacing any of its predecessors (which peak at the 60RF/t Combustion Engine) at that - is a problem, but it is a stretch to call the magmatic engine "overpowered". More often than not, the real problem is that RF-driven machines often only need tiny amounts of energy to operate.
I don't find them overpowered, I find them a little... broken like something is missing that wasn't there that could fix them, I don't find the concept overall being overpowered just not fleshed out enough; like there wasn't enough forethought put into them. The flat 80 RF/t is a little gross for its easy recipe comparatively to how much MJ to RF the Buildcraft Engines are. I also agree the very low power requirement for machines is also a problem. I think 80 RF/t should be reserved for the Final Normal Tier of RF production to be a little more in line with how Buildcraft slowly progressed.

As a side note: I have using Minetweaker tried to format engines recipes to fit the Buildcraft Tree instead of it being separate due to MJ being replaced by RF and me personally liking the progression of Buildcraft better since lets face it there is no progression in Thermal Expansion.
 
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zemerick

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Jul 29, 2019
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...lets face it there is no progression in Thermal Expansion.
You might want to check again. Granted, you probably won't like it seeing as the lowest tier is the same as it is now. They've just added an upgrade system. However, many people probably won't be using the magmatic dynamo as much any more. The Enervation Dynamo can be powered by redstone, and is pretty efficient.
 

Zandorum

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Jul 29, 2019
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You might want to check again. Granted, you probably won't like it seeing as the lowest tier is the same as it is now. They've just added an upgrade system. However, many people probably won't be using the magmatic dynamo as much any more. The Enervation Dynamo can be powered by redstone, and is pretty efficient.
I have seen it, However the reason I don't use the other is the flat 80RF/t output of most of them and the need to make that higher for whatever reason. If anything that makes my big system of Magmatic Engines smaller and have the same power output which is bad.
 

madnewmy

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Jul 29, 2019
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Why do we need to go over lava again is the real question...
You go and build enough magmatic to keep up with a huge big reactor (let's say, hum, a million RF/t which isin't that much in certain case)
That's 1 000 000/80= 12 500 dyanamo
Yea
I am sure your computer runs that
Anytime
and can handle the 50 pumps to change every hour for that

Anyway, I never used lava and don't see the point of it, nor bring the effing subject back up, for the "I lost count"th amount of time
 

immibis

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What if the nether had lakes of "molten netherrack", instead of lava?

Sure, it wouldn't fix the Mystcraft age problem... but that's a problem even if you disable lava power entirely, because you can make an age with oil lakes instead, or coal block tendrils, or something like that.
 

Zandorum

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Jul 29, 2019
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Why do we need to go over lava again is the real question...
You go and build enough magmatic to keep up with a huge big reactor (let's say, hum, a million RF/t which isin't that much in certain case)
That's 1 000 000/80= 12 500 dyanamo
Yea
I am sure your computer runs that
Anytime
and can handle the 50 pumps to change every hour for that

Anyway, I never used lava and don't see the point of it, nor bring the effing subject back up, for the "I lost count"th amount of time
However, I would not need that much power due to most RF based machines not requiring much power to work at maximum efficiency as well as you are forgetting about power upgrades. You also forget that I mentioned that when I do require that much power (which I don't) I create a Reactorcraft Tokamak reactor but I do this mainly for amusement.

What if the nether had lakes of "molten netherrack", instead of lava?

Sure, it wouldn't fix the Mystcraft age problem... but that's a problem even if you disable lava power entirely, because you can make an age with oil lakes instead, or coal block tendrils, or something like that.
Yes but oil oceans are usually unstable, if not they should be. I always assumed. Hmm... I need to re-evaluate Mystcraft and whether or not I find any balance what so ever in it and not just default on it since everyone does.
 
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immibis

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Mystcraft is only a default mod for the FTB team. Non-FTB modpacks tend towards not including it.
 

Zandorum

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Mystcraft is only a default mod for the FTB team. Non-FTB modpacks tend towards not including it.
I feel like it's a very settled mod though, like how if you don't have Thermal Expansion or Industrialcraft (I do Install IC2 but I generally never use it anymore) in your Install something about Minecraft doesn't feel whole.
 

Veggetossj

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If you think the Magmatic Dynamo is OP, what about the Lava Generator (and its 8X/64X counterparts) from Extra Utilities? The normal 1 produces only 40Rf/t and a lava bucket lasts for about 200 secs but once upgraded it will produce 8x/64x as much power but also consume the lava 8x/64x faster.
 

Zarkov

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To me, one of the most important aspects of playing modded Minecraft is being able to maintain high TPS and FPS once I have left the early game. And I'm actually not playing on a potato. That's basically more important than any and all balance issues put together, since once I have seen those, I can simply avoid using that content. Though I will happily admit, powerful content with a reasonable amount of polish is what makes modded Minecraft better / more fun than vanilla IMHO.

I would never build 250 magmatic engines to power an MFR laser drill, even if they didn't use any fuel at all. Actually, being forced to mindlessly mass produce identical things usually makes me avoid that content entirely (yes, I'm looking at you Forestry farms and Big Reactor turbines).
 
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