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Powering Magma Crucible without Magmatic Engines?

Discussion in 'General FTB chat' started by Nemorac, May 7, 2013.

  1. Nemorac

    Nemorac New Member

    Okay, so I'm aware that, according to the wiki, you can power a magma crucible with 8 magmatic engines and, if you're using Netherrack, can power the engines and a Thermal or Geothermal generator at the same time. However, I'm wanting to just use an Igneous Extruder to pump cobble into it and use that for lava, but I come to the problem of not knowing what to power the crucible with. I thought about perhaps a Redpower 2 group of Solar panels attached to a batbox attached to a Blutricity Engine, but wasn't sure if that was an optimal method of doing things or not. Is that a good idea, or is there a better way?
     
  2. KyoNeko66

    KyoNeko66 Member

    Using a magma crusible with cobble by itself is already highly inefficent. You cant even get as much power out of it in MJ as you have to put into it. And with a geotermal you get a equal amount of EU out as you use in MJ. Whcih is a pretty poor conversion. With thermals its slightly better but i sitll wont recommend it. If you want lava i would suggest draining the nether instead.

    but for whatever reason you want to do it. The awnsers i would think off: If you want to use redpower engines you could better use a kinetic generator with windmills. Sure the windmills break. But they produce a heck of a lot more power then solar panels.. And beside some extra work and maintainance, there WAY cheaper then solar panels. A other option would be a boiler with industrial steam engines and transfer that power. 144MJ/t.. But from what i read i would say you haven;t reached that point yet. You could also try to use combustion engines with eiter fuel or biofuel, they produce more power then a magmatic i believe and are quite efficent. One more option which.. Is probly a powerloop and will result in a loss, is useing a power converter to turn EU into MJ and power it through that. but like i said, this will most likely result in a loss.
     
  3. Mash

    Mash Well-Known Member

    Yeah, you really ought to use Netherrack instead of cobble.

    Of course, as far as I'm concerned, if you're going to the Nether for the Netherrack, you may as well just skip a step and harvest the massive, naturally occurring lakes of lava. Unless you plan on having a super long-term lava set up, that will cover you quite nicely.

    I'm not sure how you would go about getting a sizeable gain out of your magma crucible with lava. If you make any profit at all, it's probably pretty miniscule. At any rate, I'm not sure that it's a set up ideal for someone who doesn't already have a functioning system of power.
     
  4. slay_mithos

    slay_mithos Well-Known Member

    If you are willing to invest a bit of time into bees, there are bees that permit to create a lot more lava per cobble, and for a lower energy price.

    I am talking about the two nether branches Infernal and Volcanic. (EDIT: the Fiendish bee is the one that produces the most combs for lava production)

    If you get them into alviaries, you can get quite a lot of lava with cobble, and even more if you use sand instead.

    I can understand that many people don't like bees, but I feel that when talking about lava creation, they are a very decent alternative, depending on your needs.

    If you plan on powering tons of thermal generators, it's not really a viable solution, because you would need a ton of bees, but if it's only to have a couple of thermal generators for when the other powers fail you, it's really a good alternative.
     
  5. Nemorac

    Nemorac New Member

    Okay everyone, thanks for the feedback. Just a bit of additional information: I'm playing with some friends on a server, doing bug-tests and stuff before going live. Right now I only have 1 geothermal generator (which I intend to make into a thermal pretty much immediately) hooked up to an MFE, which is currently only powering a macerator and a compressor at LV thanks to an LV-transformer. I'm just looking for a small-time setup, and while yes, netherrack is quite plentiful and all...call me weird, but I like to keep things...close to how they were when I got there (I've only used a quarry once because of this, and that was before a server re-roll, and I used a regeneration missile after). While I do intend to eventually get up to more high-end things, we're kind of also I guess trying to keep a low profile for people who might wander by (which is why the solar panels were already kind of a 'eh' idea to begin with).

    The bees, I will be honest, I have zero, and I mean ZERO clue about. I might get into them since it would allow us to keep to our apparent "underground bunker" theme we've chosen for the three of us, the main reason for the magma crucible was sort of a "Hey, this can create an infinite supply of lava for the generator if I set things up right". That's kind of why I wanted to use cobble. I'm aware that it's inefficient, but with an Igneous Extractor, I figured hey, couldn't hurt if I found a way to power it. Another thought I had was using Electrical Engines, but I figured I'd probably end up losing power trying that route.
     
  6. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Well-Known Member

    One of my bases uses a Demonic bee (later version of Fiendish, which I originally procured for the glowstone production). You need a centrifuge (combs to phospor), extruder (cobble), squeezer (phosphor + cobble = lava), and at least two magmatic engines to keep the production running constantly.

    The result is enough to run the engines constantly, process everything my ~20 alvearies cranks out (each with a different race), and still has enough lava left over to run the attached thermal generator every now and then. Or constantly, I really don't know; every now and then I charge up my gravsuit of it and my phosphor reserves still never seem to go down. The vast majority of my phosphor goes into a void pipe, and to top it all off, since that bee went from "fast" to "fastest" my system is now processing the combs slower then they're being produced. Soon both combs AND phosphor will be overflowing.

    Eventually I threw in a another extruder linked to an aqueous accumulator and set to obsidian production - THAT does drain out the lava reserve quite quickly, and might be a match for my incoming phosphor supply, but who uses all that much obsidian? Still, it's nice to be able to grab a stack whenever I want one.

    Oh, and in addition to the lava and glowstone, I'm also getting tons of refractory wax out of this queen. Lets you make capsules that can go in place of tin versions. So far I haven't found all much use for these outside of thaumcraft research (water aspect when filled), but one day I might have more use for it all.

    Anyway, yeah, forget about using the crucible with cobble unless you value the lava more then the power you waste with it. The lava burns for less power then it takes to produce (as it should). Netherrack could give you a net gain, but I'm guessing you want a system that'll forever be self-sufficient.
     
  7. Nemorac

    Nemorac New Member

    Well, since from what everyone seems to be saying (that I'm an idiot for using cobble for the magma crucible), and that yeah, I'd like something to be at least self-sufficient enough to keep our power supplies from going down, then I guess my next question is, eschewing bees (though I may end up looking into them), what would be a decent way to get a decent power-supply going?
     
  8. Hydra

    Hydra Popular Member

    Tree farm, stuff charcoal into a boiler / a load of hobbyist steam engines. That's definitely the most straightforward. Another option I like is to create biomass from saplings, sugar cane and/or cactus and either burn it directly (bio-gas engine) or distill it into biofuel and use it to power a boiler.

    Don't bother with RP and blutricity engines. They're cool but rather inefficient.
     
  9. Nemorac

    Nemorac New Member

    I guess that, with the steam engines from Thermal Expansion, I could power the magma crucible with a oouple (being as we're under a forest, so we're not exactly hurting for charcoal). And yes, I'm aware I'm being inefficient still, but...I don't exactly care about a fully-automated, awesomely efficient system.
     
  10. Hydra

    Hydra Popular Member

    But why do you want to power magma crucibles (assuming you're making lava)? Why not power whatever you want to power with the magmatic engines directly?
     
  11. Nemorac

    Nemorac New Member

    I'm pumping the lava into a thermal generator, as stated in the beginning, to power an MFE for my machines.
     
  12. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Well-Known Member

    Once upon a time that was a decent method of doing so, and hence you'll find a lot of posts suggesting it. But more recent mods have supplanted lava as an energy conversion method.

    http://ftbwiki.org/Power_Converters
     
  13. Nemorac

    Nemorac New Member

    Okay, I guess I'm going to be using 2 (perhaps more later) Hoobyist's Steam Engines going into an energy converter. Not the fastest charge in the world, but it works.
     
  14. Icemelt

    Icemelt New Member


    Thank you very much!

    Indeed I only want to power a single thermal generator so the number of bees shouldn't "bee" a problem (snicker).

    I'm extremely disappointed with the Magma Crucible. While I will keep it around in case I ever have an abundance of Netherrack, the objective I was trying to complete was the disposal of an over abundance of cobblestone. Maybe I'm getting this whole thing wrong, but it seems to me that if you're going to "break even" with a Magma Crucible, you might as well throw the cobble INTO lava. If the Magma Crucible is this useless with anything other than Netherrack, why don't they just remove the ability to put anything except Netherrack IN it? I do NOT understand why Cobblestone is even an option. Someone please explain it to me.

    Again, @slay_mithos, thanks a bunch. I've been tempted to try bee keeping and have yet to do it, this gives me a great excuse.

    PS: sorry for the necro
     
  15. Methusalem

    Methusalem Well-Known Member

    It's always interesting that people only think of Netherrack when talking about Magma Crucibles. Blaze farms are easy to set up and automate, which turns Blaze Rods into a renewable resource. And it takes only 8.000 MJ for a bucket of lava instead of 12.000 MJ when using Netherrack. More efficient and easier to get, so why is nobody using that? :)
     
  16. GPuzzle

    GPuzzle Forum Addict

    Well... Not everything needs to be used in 100% efficiency. And I guess lava buckets are a good thing, not only for energy.
    And the Crucible's real use is to make the machines from TE that use liquid (not exactly machines... You got the point). Cobble and stone is actually Minecraft Logic. If cobble takes water and lava, then overheating it enough should be able to turn it into lava. Also, how much MJ is needed to smelt obsidian? Maybe one can make an infinite fuel cycle out of that. And the Lava Fabricator is better for this kind of stuff.
     
  17. netmc

    netmc Well-Known Member

    People will often use magma crucibles for converting MJ to EU at a 1:1 ratio, or even better if you are using a thermal generator. If your sole purpose is to make EU, then burning wood or other fuel in a boiler, then converting to EU via lava generates more EU per fuel than direct usage in a IC2 generator.

    I use the magma crucible with cobble often to make lava. It's not for power though, it's for the lava. It is eventually turned into obsidian or spun for copper, tin and electrum (I have GT). Also for lava producing bees, look in the nether for embittered bee hives. They are the color of netherrack, so a little hard to spot, but they will work in a hot arid environment in the overworld, and you don't have to even breed them since they are a hive bee. (from extra bees mod).

    I am using a boiler for my power. It comes from an MFR tree farm. I am not even close to using all the power from the boiler at once, so I have a magma crucible powered by a couple industrial steam engines to produce the lava.

    A magma crucible will use 40MJ/tick to run at full speed. You need 10 commercial or 5 industrial to run it at full speed. Depending on your actual eu needs, you could get by with a small 2x2 boiler. a 2x2x3 boiler will give you 120 steam/tick if LP or 240 steam/tick if HP. This will let you generate lava at a decent rate. You don't need to max out the magma crucible as most eu needs are done in bursts and you can generate the lava constantly and use as needed.
     
  18. Enigmius1

    Enigmius1 Well-Known Member

    Similar to what others have said, there are uses for lava that don't involve low maintenance power sources. Think, "What can I use a bucket of lava for?" The answer(s) are why cobblestone is an option.
     
  19. Harvest88

    Harvest88 Well-Known Member

    But less efficient And require constant input of cobble from like an extruder to work. Also curibles are limited to 40mj/t. MFR lava fabs are a sure fire way to get lava from a Combustion burn's worth power from a bucket o lava. Just pump in up to 100mj/t and bam economy lava for your other needs, like centrifuging!
     
  20. Enigmius1

    Enigmius1 Well-Known Member

    Efficiency is only a concern if you make it a concern, and it doesn't require constant input of cobble from an extruder. When you want lava, you put in cobblestone. Cobblestone is pretty easy to get. We're not talking about a magma crucible as part of a power plant. I'm talking about a magma crucible as a means to make lava. Do you know of any uses for lava beyond fuel? I do.
     

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