Politics Discussion

[trajing]

Because politically-charged arguments are happening elsewhere on the forum and I just want to hear people's opinions on what's happening in Modded MC.
EDIT: Some rules to stop things from going horribly wrong (thanks jord):
1) If you aren't going to say something constructive, just leave.
2) This thread isn't a place for flame-baiting!
3) You cannot try to change another member's political persuasion, even if you do not agree with the party(s) they support (this is a criminal offence in England, and I assume it's the same elsewhere in the world)
4) If you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk about it; this includes not knowing the current political situations in a person's state/country
5) Be nice!

 

[psp]

Give me a few hours to type up my opinions. I have a tendency to ramble on about stuff, not to mention be overly critical and harsh.

 

[RavynousHunter]

Are you referring to politics in general, or just politics as they refer to Minecraft and/or FTB?

 

[VapourDrive]

In general, the conversation that was going down in the RED thread was about as general as politics can get

 

[keybounce]

It went from a discussion of someone asking for donations to cover the costs of living while developing mods.
From there it went to discussions of work, being paid for your work, and disputes as to whether or not being paid for your work represents the value of your work.
From there it went all over the place.

Different people may have different ideas of how to summarize the discussion; others may not agree with this summary.

 

[jordsta95]

Few rules that should probably be added to the OP:
1) If you aren't going to say something constructive, just leave.
2) This thread isn't a place for flame-baiting!
3) You cannot try to change another member's political persuasion unjustly, even if you do not agree with the party(s) they support (this is a criminal offence in England, and I assume it's the same elsewhere in the world)
4) If you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk about it; this includes not knowing the current political situations in a person's state/country
5) Be nice!


These rules seem a little strict, but politics is a very touchy subject, some people are very passionate about it, and some people don't agree with how their country/another country is run. So these rules NEED to be followed, otherwise it is likely that your post will get removed, as it probably will be going against the forum rules; and may get you a good amount of warning points... especially if you partake in a debate.

 

[psp]

3) You cannot try to change another member's political persuasion, even if you do not agree with the party(s) they support (this is a criminal offence in England, and I assume it's the same elsewhere in the world)

That is perhaps the dumbest rule I have ever heard. What is the point of having a political discussion, no, a discussion at all, if not to persuade someone to agree with you? Why can't I try to convince someone that my side is right and that my opinions are the facts?

 

[HeilMewTwo]

That is perhaps the dumbest rule I have ever heard. What is the point of having a political discussion, no, a discussion at all, if not to persuade something to agree with you? Why can't I try to convince someone that my side is right and that my opinions are the facts?

I sincerely hope this is sarcasm.

4) If you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk about it;

But then I'll only ever be able to talk about Pokemon!

 

[psp]

I sincerely hope this is sarcasm.

But then I'll only ever be able to talk about Pokemon!

Maybe I'm not thinking and just missing something, as I have gotten no sleep?
But, please explain.
The only reason I have a discussion is to try to persuade someone towards something.

 

[HeilMewTwo]

Maybe I'm not thinking and just missing something, as I have gotten no sleep?
But, please explain.
The only reason I have a discussion is to try to persuade someone towards something.

A discussion is generally used to share both opinions and take what you will from both sides and add it to your own, a debate is used to try and convince others. Trying to convince someone you are right every time you discuss something with them isn't the best way to go about things.

 

[psp]

A discussion is generally used to share both opinions and take what you will from both sides and add it to your own, a debate is used to try and convince others. Trying to convince someone you are right every time you discuss something with them isn't the best way to go about things.

Tit for tat. They are used interchangeably in my civics classroom. I still fail to see why there would be a rule made to stop someone from persuading someone that their political ideas are wrong.
A discussion and debate go hand in hand with each other. You try to convince someone you are right, sometimes you cede a point, sometimes they cede a point. Until you reach a point where you are in agreement, or at least can agree to disagree on certain points.

 

[HeilMewTwo]

Tit for tat. They are used interchangeably in my civics classroom. I still fail to see why there would be a rule made to stop someone from persuading someone that their political ideas are wrong.

To stop someone trying to enforce their personal opinions on others?

 

[psp]

To stop someone trying to enforce their personal opinions on others?

Bah, that's stupid. Adults do that all the time. Apparently they are always "right".
There is a huge difference from just blatantly saying "I'm right!", compared to convincing someone using a detailed thought out idea, with supporting opinions and why you think they are right. Just have to explain. But enough, I need to get back to writing.

 

[jordsta95]

That is perhaps the dumbest rule I have ever heard. What is the point of having a political discussion, no, a discussion at all, if not to persuade someone to agree with you? Why can't I try to convince someone that my side is right and that my opinions are the facts?

Everyone is entitled to their own political opinions.
If someone thinks that everyone in the country should be on equal pay (the people who earn the most earn the same amount as those who earn the least), and (lets say) the Labour party are saying that they will enforce that. Then I cannot come along and say that it would be stupid for <reasons> and they should vote for <political party> instead.
I can say the first half, that's having a debate/discussion, about what is right.
I cannot say the second half, as it is trying to change someone's political persuasion to that of my own; potentially making that person vote for a party I would much rather see in power. (This is illegal in England, and a teacher got suspended because of how he talked highly of one party and badly of another, while I was there).

There is nothing wrong with you saying "<party> does things slightly differently" as that may spark a debate (debates are good) but if you say "<party 1> is better than <party 2> (and don't but any reasoning like - ...because they intended to make <item> available to everyone for free)" that starts an argument (arguments are bad)

 

[jordsta95]

Bah, that's stupid. Adults do that all the time. Apparently they are always "right".
There is a huge difference from just blatantly saying "I'm right!", compared to convincing someone using a detailed thought out idea, with supporting opinions and why you think they are right. Just have to explain. But enough, I need to get back to writing.

This is fine, if you say:
<party 1> would probably benefit the country over <party 2> because they are able to do <x>, <y>, <z>. However, I do see that <party 1> is doing <thing> which is good, but <other thing> makes me less inclined to agree with what they do because <reason>.
That's great. A balanced argument, incorporating both sides, making sure that you show you understand both sides, and why the side you agree with is better.

Personally I think it's best to go with the rule "Do I fully understand it 100%?", "Do I at least 90% understand what the opposition's stance on the matter is?" if the answer to both is yes, continue a political debate. If not, you shouldn't talk, because someone could say something about that 10% you don't know, and then you are stumped. Debates are made of arguments and counter-arguments. If you cannot counter more than 90% of the arguments, you probably shouldn't enter that debate.

 

[psp]

Interesting...
I suppose that would make more sense in a multi-party system. It really would interesting to see a law like that in the U.S.A. Although, the two party system that America uses is, also, one of the dumbest things that I have seen in my *short* lifetime.

 

[jordsta95]

Interesting...
I suppose that would make more sense in a multi-party system. It really would interesting to see a law like that in the U.S.A. Although, the two party system that America uses is, also, one of the dumbest things that I have seen in my *short* lifetime.

I guess it is more of a British thing than American, now you talk about it... 3 "main" parties, along with 4 more that could be used to form a majority coalition government, but then another couple dozen parties after that which don't really have much of a chance of the "big show" but still have their place (for example the socialist party - I see them every time I am in town - they won't get more than a few constituencies, but they do have their place)

 

[HeilMewTwo]

I guess it is more of a British thing than American, now you talk about it... 3 "main" parties, along with 4 more that could be used to form a majority coalition government, but then another couple dozen parties after that which don't really have much of a chance of the "big show" but still have their place (for example the socialist party - I see them every time I am in town - they won't get more than a few constituencies, but they do have their place)

My personal favourite is the Australian Sex Party: https://www.sexparty.org.au/

 

[psp]

My personal favourite is the Australian Sex Party: https://www.sexparty.org.au/

If I could vote for them, they would have my vote.

 

[jordsta95]

My personal favourite is the Australian Sex Party: https://www.sexparty.org.au/

Nah nah nah, Monster Raving Loony party has some of the best policies: http://www.omrlp.com/