Does anybody have any info on Thermal Dynamics?

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King Lemming

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EIO was already a great mod before the Rise of the Lemming. It only got the recognition it deserved now due to people needing a pipe/duct replacement and TE didn't managed to get the ducts out in time due to RL.

Agreed. EIO is a solid mod. It's not for me personally due to my thoughts on design and balance, but it's unquestionably well coded. It does the same basic algorithm after all, and has a ton of identical features. So it'd be hard to say I really dislike it due to it being a copy in so many ways. ;) I just don't care for the look and I think it's a bit boring.

RF is still dominating the scene, independently from TE

That's true, although RF being ubiquitous isn't quite as harmful in the same way that TE being omnipresent was to the community. There are a lot of good mod authors and a lot of good mods out there. I have no desire to be seen as part of the "old guard" that wants to shut the new guys down. The reason we make mods the way we do is so that people can utilize Lib and Core, and build great things on top of them.

It's a sandbox and we all share it. I'm quite happy sharing the buckets necessary to make awesome sandcastles rather than being ego-driven to the point of wanting my sandcastle to be the only one.

@King Lemming
Am I correct to say that if modders want to emulate any of the existing mods' power system (including all kinds of explosion or what's not, they can do it with RF?)

In most cases, yes.
 
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asb3pe

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The problem is that Zeldo got a new job, I'm wrapping up a PhD, and there was a fundamental issue with FMP that created some intractable issues. Combine that with the fact that our total mod code approaches the size of Minecraft itself, and we merged two MASSIVE coremods with 1.7.10...well there ya go.

So, we wanted a full rewrite on them and there's just not enough time to do it and "real life" takes priority. Could we have ported the old code up and kept FMP dependency? Easily, but that would have created a host of issues.

Frankly, if TE is now on the bottom of your list or whatever, that's fine. TE being "dominant" in so many areas of modding is bad for the community and needed to end. It wasn't fair to other legitimately good mods, and it wasn't fair to us, who felt a ton of pressure to update every time. EIO deserved a fair shake and I'm glad it's getting some time to shine. We have a different idea of balance, so TD won't be "better" necessarily, but it'll be interesting, well-written, and enjoyable. It'll also look and feel Minecrafty. But no ETA, sorry. Progress is being made though, that much I know.

Thank you for the reply King Lemming. And thank you for all you've done to make modded Minecraft so much fun. Good luck on the PhD, and congratulation for keeping life's priorities straight - I hope you didn't take my words as any sort of insult or similar, I certainly understand "gaming" is a hobby or a pastime for most, not a "priority". My words were a compliment to you and the TE team, although perhaps it came across slightly differently the way I phrased it and inserted some emotion. It is a fact that (for me) Minecrafting hasn't been the same since the TE conduits went away, but we all must learn to adapt in life. :)
 

King Lemming

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Thank you for the reply King Lemming. And thank you for all you've done to make modded Minecraft so much fun. Good luck on the PhD, and congratulation for keeping life's priorities straight - I hope you didn't take my words as any sort of insult or similar, I certainly understand "gaming" is a hobby or a pastime for most, not a "priority". My words were a compliment to you and the TE team, although perhaps it came across slightly differently the way I phrased it and inserted some emotion. It is a fact that (for me) Minecrafting hasn't been the same since the TE conduits went away, but we all must learn to adapt in life. :)

No, I didn't take it as an insult at all. Some people have actually been really rude about it. It's sort of a perspective thing because when one person asks about ducts, they only see it as just that - an inquiry. But when the same person (me) hears about it from thousands of individuals, it can get a bit tiresome, and some people really sort of miss the point that they aren't owed anything.

In retrospect, would I have handled ducts differently? Absolutely. I'd never have gone FMP in the first place, and I probably would have done some stopgap thing in 1.7.10 while TD was getting ready.

I don't really have that luxury unfortunately, or the luxury of time until about mid-April. We'll see what the future brings. I want to keep things manageable. Overall though, I think the gap has brought out some new things in the community and that's been good.
 

Azzanine

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I want to stipulate that when I say "the time of ducts has passed" I don't mean it in a vicious upheaval kind of way but more of a father passing the torch to a son kind of way.

Coders will know this, the good ideas from previous iterations are usually replicated in the next iterations.

For example; BC pipes allowed items to travel a distance no longer being trapped in chests and somewhat removing the manual production aspect of tech mods, but they where dumb and tricky to rout reasonably and ended up spamming items everywhere if done wrong (killed servers back in the day when open world items where handles less efficiently).

Then came TE ducts (or maybe RP tubes I forget), they allowed items to travel distances but routed a bit more intelligently. More control was afforded with Pneumatic servo upgrades but as a cube only has 6 sides and mod having requirements for multiple items and liquids and then needing power space was running out.

Then came EIO conduits, they allowed items to travel distances, are smart with routing and can provide extra control with an upgrade, but on top of that can share space with energy and fluid pipes saving space and allowing more aesthetic/ technical options.

Yes, I know there are other logistics mods I didn't mention but I find things like AE and Logistics pipes to be different beasts (despite similar purpose). To me BC pipes> TE Ducts> EIO Conduits is a more direct descendancy where as those other mods are more of an offshoot.
 
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ratchet freak

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I want to stipulate that when I say "the time of ducts has passed" I don't mean it in a vicious upheaval kind of way but more of a father passing the torch to a son kind of way.

Coders will know this, the good ideas from previous iterations are usually replicated in the next iterations.

For example; BC pipes allowed items to travel a distance no longer being trapped in chests and somewhat removing the manual production aspect of tech mods, but they where dumb and tricky to rout reasonably and ended up spamming items everywhere if done wrong (killed servers back in the day when open world items where handles less efficiently).

Then came TE ducts (or maybe RP tubes I forget), they allowed items to travel distances but routed a bit more intelligently. More control was afforded with Pneumatic servo upgrades but as a cube only has 6 sides and mod having requirements for multiple items and liquids and then needing power space was running out.

Then came EIO conduits, they allowed items to travel distances, are smart with routing and can provide extra control with an upgrade, but on top of that can share space with energy and fluid pipes saving space and allowing more aesthetic/ technical options.

Yes, I know there are other logistics mods I didn't mention but I find things like AE and Logistics pipes to be different beasts (despite similar purpose). To me BC pipes> TE Ducts> EIO Conduits is a more direct descendancy where as those other mods are more of an offshoot.
RP tubes was the first intelligent item transfer and along side came logistics pipes. Both helped stop spilling of items.

The next "big thing" was the TE ducts that never spilled and could be setup a bit more compactly and ended up superseding both for basic transport needs.
 

Azzanine

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RP tubes was the first intelligent item transfer and along side came logistics pipes. Both helped stop spilling of items.

The next "big thing" was the TE ducts that never spilled and could be setup a bit more compactly and ended up superseding both for basic transport needs.

Hmm I guess, I was just a little foggy on the release dates of RP tubes and ducts. RP2 tubes probably was the 1st instance of intelligent item logistics and their drawback was being tied to the transposers and redstone clocks. TE put the transposer in to the pipe and eliminated the dependance on potentially laggy redstone clock mechanics (then again the transposers and similar blocks did add some nuance to item transport so drawback might not be the right word).


Actually, looking at this mod phylogeny talk makes me wonder what thermal dynamics is going to offer in order to evolve above it's new competition and also how EIO is going to be one upped, or has every variable/ avenue for improvement been exhausted without deviating from the original purpose (i.e moving items) or losing nuance like replacing pipes with cheaper short (like 3-6 blocks) range tesseracts which would kind of be a tad boring.
 

ljfa

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Actually, looking at this mod phylogeny talk makes me wonder what thermal dynamics is going to offer in order to evolve above it's new competition and also how EIO is going to be one upped, or has every variable/ avenue for improvement been exhausted without deviating from the original purpose (i.e moving items) or losing nuance like replacing pipes with cheaper short (like 3-6 blocks) range tesseracts which would kind of be a tad boring.
I guess you can't really get better then EnderIO pipes (other than mere changes of numbers). That is probably not the intention behind ThD.
It's probably more the KISS principle - Keep it simple, stupid! Or: Keep it simple and smart.
We don't necessarily need fancy pipes with all kinds of crazy features.
 
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ratchet freak

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Hmm I guess, I was just a little foggy on the release dates of RP tubes and ducts. RP2 tubes probably was the 1st instance of intelligent item logistics and their drawback was being tied to the transposers and redstone clocks. TE put the transposer in to the pipe and eliminated the dependance on potentially laggy redstone clock mechanics (then again the transposers and similar blocks did add some nuance to item transport so drawback might not be the right word).


Actually, looking at this mod phylogeny talk makes me wonder what thermal dynamics is going to offer in order to evolve above it's new competition and also how EIO is going to be one upped, or has every variable/ avenue for improvement been exhausted without deviating from the original purpose (i.e moving items) or losing nuance like replacing pipes with cheaper short (like 3-6 blocks) range tesseracts which would kind of be a tad boring.
honestly just being able to see the items being transported will be an attraction over the black box teleport magic that is enderIO
 

ljfa

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honestly just being able to see the items being transported will be an attraction over the black box teleport magic that is enderIO
Although the teleporting is kinda nice as it removes backstuffing problems.
I hope the ThD pipes will handle backstuffing more intelligently than Itemducts.
 

Azzanine

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I guess you can't really get better then EnderIO pipes (other than mere changes of numbers). That is probably not the intention behind ThD.
It's probably more the KISS principle - Keep it simple, stupid! Or: Keep it simple and smart.
We don't necessarily need fancy pipes with all kinds of crazy features.

You see that's the thing EIO conduits don't have a lot of extra "crazy features" the only two glaring differences I can see is that the different types of conduit can share a space and the inbuilt color routing.
Even then, you can ignore all that technical shizzle wizzle and use EIO pipes as if they where TE ducts. Whack it on the chest/ machine plop a lever next to it and it sucks out items to a connected inventory.

Not that it's a bad thing, but those who cling to TE ducts are similar to those who still insist on using BC pipes.
 
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King Lemming

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You see that's the thing EIO conduits don't have a lot of extra "crazy features" the only two glaring differences I can see is that the different types of conduit can share a space and the inbuilt color routing.
Even then, you can ignore all that technical shizzle wizzle and use EIO pipes as if they where TE ducts. Whack it on the chest/ machine plop a lever next to it and it sucks out items to a connected inventory.

Not that it's a bad thing, but those who cling to TE ducts are similar to those who still insist on using BC pipes.

Ehh...you're simplifying a bit too much. For example....tesseracts. Fundamentally, they work the same as EIO conduit. We could fancy it up and we'd be there. 1 block is kind of boring. The people who "cling" to BC pipes enjoy them, and it's a sandbox, so that's awesome! They have their own rules and logic. Same with ducts. I feel that EIO is just a bit *too* simple and it'd be way too easy to copy, but ultimately boring. Basically, TD won't "one-up" anything necessarily, but it'll be consistent, fun, and understandable. Sort of like TE, which isn't the "best" in any given aspect of what it does. But people seem to like it. ;)
 
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ljfa

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Why do you all keep hating on BC pipes? You're acting as if they never changed since 1.2.5. As the current BuildCraft developer, I cling to BC pipes myself, and I see nothing wrong with that.
Well Buildcraft pipes definitely have their spot, but (unless you did change that) they don't have intelligent routing and overflow detection by themselves, making them tricky to use for more elaborate builds. It already gets problematic if you have a destination that can possibly fill up at some point. It requires use of gates, pipe wires and whatnot.

But mind you, my knowledge about how BC pipes evolved since 1.4.7 is rather limited.
 

asiekierka

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Well Buildcraft pipes definitely have their spot, but (unless you did change that) they don't have intelligent routing and overflow detection by themselves, making them tricky to use for more elaborate builds. It already gets problematic if you have a destination that can possibly fill up at some point. It requires use of gates, pipe wires and whatnot.

But mind you, my knowledge about how BC pipes evolved since 1.4.7 is rather limited.

Clay Insertion Pipes got added to help with the overflow issue. And the gates/pipe wires are an intentional design decision, however their powers were greatly extended in 1.6.4 and 1.7.10.
 
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immibis

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Clay Insertion Pipes got added to help with the overflow issue. And the gates/pipe wires are an intentional design decision, however their powers were greatly extended in 1.6.4 and 1.7.10.
The issue people mean isn't something that can be fixed with new pipe types - it's a fundamental difference between "push-routing" and "pull-routing" (or push-routing with backstuffing).
 

Azzanine

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The issue people mean isn't something that can be fixed with new pipe types - it's a fundamental difference between "push-routing" and "pull-routing" (or push-routing with backstuffing).

Also adds more to the clown pipe syndrome. Yet another color to add to the mess of BC piping, I know we have facades but complicated BC pipe setups can look super ridiculous.



TBH if Minecraft handled items dropped in the world better, people would probably find intelligent routing less of a necessity. I mean as far as item transport goes BC pipes are probably the most nuanced of the lot. However the price of getting it wrong is a lag heavy mess near your quarry output and if you are on a server means very annoyed admins and neighboring players.

People hate on BC pipes for this reason, their inevitable ineptitude with them causes them and sometimes others a huge headache. Around the time RP2 was the premium item moving solution a few servers I played on removed BC entirely citeing that BC had no features that other mods didn't do better, bear in mind these where servers that banned quarries (don't ask me why they would do that).
 
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mcalpha

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BC pipes have one thing going for them: actually seeing the items zoom about in the pipes is a great. And yes, TE ducts did that too, but the duct texture was so clumsy that you could only see half the item, and in the accelerated ones even less.
 

immibis

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Also adds more to the clown pipe syndrome. Yet another color to add to the mess of BC piping, I know we have facades but complicated BC pipe setups can look super ridiculous.



TBH if Minecraft handled items dropped in the world better, people would probably find intelligent routing less of a necessity. I mean as far as item transport goes BC pipes are probably the most nuanced of the lot. However the price of getting it wrong is a lag heavy mess near your quarry output and if you are on a server means very annoyed admins and neighboring players.

People hate on BC pipes for this reason, their inevitable ineptitude with them causes them and sometimes others a huge headache. Around the time RP2 was the premium item moving solution a few servers I played on removed BC entirely citeing that BC had no features that other mods didn't do better, bear in mind these where servers that banned quarries (don't ask me why they would do that).

It's not entirely about lag. People hate it when items spew out of their pipes, lag or not, because then the items despawn.
 
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ljfa

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It's not entirely about lag. People hate it when items spew out of their pipes, lag or not, because then the items despawn.
IIRC items dopped by Buildcraft pipes only live 1 minute
so that's even more of a concern